TFE "debunks"

TFE not an experiment

In a debate against Will Duffy about TFE on Modern-Day Debate Flatzoid brought up a presentation about TFE not being an experiment and being a false dichotomy.

What is Science?

TFE is science as they are observing the position of the sun in Antarctica in December to determine whether the globe prediction of a 24h sun or the flat earth prediction of "nuh-uh" is true.

Sun observations

The globe predicts the sun's position exactly, as Flatzoid himself demonstrated when he observed the sunrise in Uvongo, even though he lied about the direction. The flat earth on the other hand can't make any predictions as Flatzoid himself declared. His claim of the angular size changing is a lie. What changes depending on weather conditions is the glare.

Scientific Hypothesis

The hypothesises used are:

1. Earth is a globe, orbiting the sun with an axial tilt, which predicts a 24h sun in December in Antarctica.
2. Earth is flat with the North Pole in the center and Antarctica around the rim, the most popular flat earth model at the time, which predicts a 24h sun in Antarctica to be impossible. Of course the remaining flerfs immediately declared their model to not be a model, and retracted any claims as soon as they are being tested.

As we saw from the videos taking during TFE, the predicted outcome of Earth being a globe came true.

The variables are used later when it comes to testing the hypothesis.

Independent Variable

In case of TFE the independent variables, yes Flatzoid you can have more than one independent variables, are location and time. They went to Antarctica in December to watch the sun moving 360° around them. The dependent variable is the sun's observed position from Earth, which depends on the location and time. To be really pedantic the independent variables for the globe are Earth's rotation, its axial tilt, its position in orbit around the sun, and the observer's location on Earth's surface. There is no need to directly manipulate the independent variable, they just need to change.

False Dichotomy

There were two potential outcomes for TFE:

1. Sun sets.
2. Sun doesn't set.

In the first case every model with a 24h sun (i.e. the globe) are falsified and every model with a setting sun gained a piece of evidence.

In the second case the opposite is true. Every model with a setting sun (i.e. a flat earth) are falsified and every model with a sun moving around the location gained evidence.

The conclusion of TFE was of course the second case, where the globe didn't just predict the existence of a 24h sun, but also the exact position of the sun and the shadows. The flat earth on the other hand couldn't provide any kind of model that even remotely matches the observations, so they just come up with more or less ridiculous reasons to call it fake. Many of them are listed below. The only actual attempt of a working model, I've seen was made by Joe Hanvey, which has the sun being reflected on the dome. That model doesn't explain how the sun can move around Union Glacier, and if it was true, it means that it's not possible to have a sunset.

Glaring Issues

Will Duffy chose an observation that most flerfs agreed would falsify the flat earth and confirm the globe. As usual as soon as the project is being done, they always request other things. Just like they did when Mr.Sensible sent M.A.G.E. 2 to show curvature, they come up with excuses to not accept it.

Increasing the contrast makes Earth's curvature more visible.

For rotation, one way to see it is by using satellites, like this clip taken by GOES East during the solar eclipse of April 8, 2024. On Earth you can do an experiment like the Foucault's Pendulum or a precise enough gyroscope.

Gravity is the explanation for objects falling towards the ground and for orbits, like the moon orbiting the Earth, something that flat earth has not even an attempt of an explanation. Of course flatearthers always use some excuses to not use gravity, like saying it's buoyancy and density, even though buoyancy can't even exist without opposing another force, like the one caused by gravity.

An experiment that can be done, would be the Cavendish experiment, which Flatzoid plans on doing himself. He needs to use the same scrutiny he used for TFE.

For example:

• A uninterrupted livestream. If the livestream is interrupted by a blackout or internet connectivity issues, the entire experiment is fake, according to his standard.
• There can't be any glitches or lens distortions, even when they can't be avoided.
• He has to call Steve from England during his livestream, as apparently that was important for TFE.
• There can't be anything orange, red, blue or any other color he declares to be masonic.
• He has to swear on the bible with his left hand, as using the right hand is masonic according to him.
• There can't be any shoe, especially the left shoe, visible, as that's masonic apparently.
• He can't form any kind of hand sign he declares to be masonic even accidentally.

Someone said something

Sun going behind Mount Rossman

Flatzoid used a clip of Dave McKeegan saying that the sun was going behind Mount Rossman. In this context it simply means that the sun is further away than the mountain in the same direction as the mountain. It doesn't mean that the Mountain blocked the sun. Jeran shortly after in the same video was in Union Glacier Camp, where the sun can actually be blocked by the mountain at the end of the camp closest to the mountain.

Jeran said the sun set

The most ridiculous claim of fakery is the claim that Jeran said the sun sets. First Steve from England claimed that Jeran said the sun sets, which was debunked by DP Debunks. Steve even acknowledged to be wrong and paid the 1000 £.

Now a new claim about Jeran saying the sun sets, was presented on Flatzoid's livestream. By watching just a few seconds longer, it becomes clear that Jeran was talking about when he set up his mount. He simply wanted to make sure that he captured a full 24 hours, and wasn't a few minutes short.

Camera issues

Toon and Duffy aging

In the same video as in the previous lie, Flatzoid also claims that Toon and Will aged a lot, by comparing a video taken by a phone by one of the organizers of the Antarctica marathon, with the videos taken in Will's and Toon's home respectively. Something flerfs haven't done is to compare the videos Toon and Duffy took earlier in the year with the footage after TFE when the conditions are the same. It's like they know it won't work if they do that.

The main problem is when were they supposed to be in Antarctica before? The marathon is only in southern summer, so if they went for example in June, they wouldn't have met the marathon guys. In fact they wouldn't even have met them if they went a week earlier or later. Furthermore in Southern summer, Antarctica has 24h night. They also couldn't have gone a year earlier, as the first teaser was released on February 14 2024.

Marathon runner breath

In a discussion with Witsit, Flatzoid claimed at the beginning that the breath of the marathon runners was always visible.

Flatzoid: We showed a video of the marathon runners there a day earlier and their breath was showing the whole time and they were also at Union Glacier. So why was it possible that their breath is always showing and your guys wasn't?

When Witsit calls him out on that, he claims that he never said that we can always see the breath of the marathon runners.

Flatzoid: Now you are lying because you didn't watch any of my content so when did I say we always see their breath? [...] I said most of the time.

The breath is visible depending on the lighting conditions as shown by Dave McKeegan.

Camera glitching means that the video is fake?

In the discussion with Dave McKeegan, Dave showed the footage on his insta 360. Unfortunately the camera glitched and showed a green frame. Flatzoid, dishonest as usual, took that as evidence of fakery.

Sun changing shape

Flatzoid: The sun shouldn't change um shape and stuff, if they claiming a 93 million mile away sun. Just to let you guys know, because that's why they claim the sun wouldn't change angular size, because it's too far away. So what's what is their excuse actually for the sun warping and going like this.

The sun didn't actually change shape. It's literally just lens distortion as Dave McKeegan shows. Furthermore the sun appearing to change shape, demonstrates that it's not possible that the background was added to the footage. It simply wouldn't happen with a fake background.

In his livestream, Dave McKeegan shows that the distortion of the sun is different between different cameras, making it impossible that they just added a background. It would require them to have a different background for each camera, with different lens distortions, while still matching the clouds.

Two suns

Flatzoid thinks that this frame shows the real sun at the bottom and a fake sun on at the top.

Yeah, this guys look, this, but look at that. When I saw this first I was like, hm could they just claim reflection or maybe the bottom is the real sun, the top is the fake one? Think about that guys because where's it reflecting off of because that's sky. That's where it's supposedly reflecting off of is sky. That is fake because even if you look at the sun angle, look at this it can more or less look like the sun's light is coming from there (from the bottom sun), not from there (from the top sun). Exactly. So this to me is a nail in the coffin. You can't have a reflection of the sun above the surface it's supposed to be on the surface and it also can't be a reflection, because if it's a curve, remember curves go like this, the light would not be able to go around like they're showing this. It wouldn't be able to be situated. It's showing it below the um the ground there, so that's a low sun, that is a fake sun. You can even see, look how clear (botom sun) that is and look how blurry (top sun). You see how clear this is, look how blurry the sun is there.

The bottom "sun" is a reflection on clouds. The actual sun is the one at the top. The sunlight clearly comes from above. If it came from below the hill Dave is standing on would be in shade, which it isn't. Furthermore, both suns are blurry because of the clouds.

We probably get more footage from that time once the documentary is released.

Sun in front of mountain

Flatzoid thinks the sun went in front of the mountain.

Flatzoid: The sun actually goes in front of the the mountain.

That effect is literally just glare. The funny thing is that he filmed the same effect himself. Is he saying that the sun in his sunrise video went in front of the horizon?

Lens flares

Flatzoid doesn't understand that the lens flares will be the same after 24 hours when using the same camera pointed at the sun at the same angle, which is the case when the camera is mounted on a rotating tripod.

He also doesn't understand that different lenses result in different flares.

Flatzoid: The point I'm trying to make now is, look at the sun specifically. How it looks okay and we can compare it to actual footage from Antarctica, that's practically how it looks, but the ones we saw from their 24hour time lapses and stuff doesn't look like that.

For comparison, here is a frame from the TFE trailer.

And one from Dave McKeegan's 24h timelapse.

Environment

Union Glacier Camp not visible

Another lie is the claim that Toon and Duffy filmed the site off season, when Union Glacier Camp wasn't set up, because the camp isn't visible in the footage. In reality the camp is simply lower than halfway-point, where TFE was, as shown by the drone footage.

Snow

Flatzoid talks about Witsit walking a few meters away to get some snow.

Flatzoid: Asked this many times. Uh, why did he walk away to get snow? Well his argument was there was no loose snow by him. Where if you look at the 360 footage, there is a lot of snow right by the camera on the barrel where his uh laptop was.

The area around the TFE location was compacted, so it's not easy to grab the snow. Witsit simply didn't notice the snow near the barrel, so he simply walked to a place outside of the compacted area to get some loose snow.

What is even the argument? Witsit didn't use the snow near the barrel, therefore that snow is fake? Either all the snow is fake or all is real. It makes no sense to use different kinds of material to use as snow.

Arctic Reflections made a video about the snow.

Footprints

Flatzoid: When they were walking on that, um, on that compacted ice, snow, there was supposed to show footprints even if it is compacted. Remember it's got little ridges and they, their shoes have little, uh, you know, every all shoes, all in their soles always have little indentations and things like that. So it should break off pieces of that. It didn't break off nothing um and sometimes they walked that showed, sometimes it didn't, sometimes the the uh footprints, it just appeared out of nowhere. So yes the nonsense excuse of no there was it was just compact ice.

The snow around the TFE camp was compacted so it's difficult to leave footprints. Footprints still accumulated over time as Dave McKeegan shows in his video.

Furthermore Will Duffy's 24 non time lapse video shows the participants leave footprints.

Weather reports

Flatzoid: I remember when we were still, um, watching the live from uh from Witsit and them and we were like, we went over the weather report there, and we're looking at the Witsit live weather report while they were there, and it was showing cloudy and windy, yet while they were live there was no clouds, there were, there was no wind and we've never got an answer to it at all.

Antarctica is a large continent with very few weather stations. So the weather reports are less accurate than in more populated areas. There was a storm coming up, that's the reason they had to leave a day earlier.

Local sun

Flatzoid: There's only two possibilities here the sun is real for some odd reason there and uh they filmed a local sun. Great so let's say we accepted their deception as real, yes then they just to proved that the sun was local and not 93 million miles away, but if we do uh also accept that it's just a deception and nothing they presented was actually evidential as true, it debunks them anyway because it also shows they had to fabricate it, because it didn't suit their narrative. So it doesn't matter which way they go. They proved the sun is not 93 million miles away and they proved it's not a globe.

That makes absolutely no sense. How does the sun being real and the same angular size as it is in Uvongo South Africa, where Flatzoid filmed the sun, mean that the sun is locally moving 360° around Union Glacier, which doesn't work on any flat earth? The globe predicted the exact position of the sun and the resulting shadows for a sun that's about 151 million km away, on a rotating globe. The flat earth couldn't even predict that the sun would be visible for 24 hours or that the sun rises South of East in Uvongo, South Africa in Southern Summer as Flatzoid himself demonstrated.

There is no prediction of a local sun that matches the observations, so how is the local sun correct?

Vanishing vehicles

Flatzoid thinks the vehicles just disappear. In fact they simply went downhill as Union Glacier is lower than the TFE camp.

Flatzoid and the South pole

Flatzoid thinks that the existence of the South pole in reality is a straw-man, because the flat earth doesn't have a South pole. He also doesn't understand that 90° is not a single location on a flat earth. It's only a single location on the globe. Will Duffy asked him to point out where 90° South is on a map, which of course Flatzoid couldn't answer and just kept deflecting.

In case Flatzoid reads the wiki. The sign of Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station shows Antarctica as the continent it is on the globe.

In another stream, Flatzoid's panel talks about there being seven South Poles and Flatzoid just accepts that as truth.

Sun is North of Union Glacier?

While discussing The Final Experiment's observation of the Sun in Antarctica, Flatzoid referred to the Time and Date's map on their website for December 14, 2024, and said that since the Sun's icon was placed north of Antarctica on the map at local midnight, the participants of TFE were lying because they saw the Sun towards their South, as it should have been North of them.

The first mistake he made is that he use midnight UTC, which is not local midnight. At that time the sun is West of the TFE camp.

Local Midnight is around 6:00 UTC.

The second mistake is that he treated a cylindrical map projection as representative of globe geometry (just like flerfs do when claiming flight paths don’t work on a globe). This is so elementary as to be plainly dishonest.

On the globe the actual position of the sun is indeed South of Union Glacier at local midnight in the direction of Mount Rossman. The worst part is that Flatzoid actually knows that. He showed that in a previous stream where he confused East and West using Google Earth.

In case Flatzoid complains about the compass in the top right corner showing North towards the left, that's because my position above the globe is slightly left of the South Pole. It's in the direction of South from the position of the TFE camp.

Glaciers are not on land

Flatzoid thinks that glaciers aren't on land.

Flatzoid: Maybe, um maybe Mr Duffy doesn't do his homework, like he claims to do. Union Glacier is a glacier it's not Antarctica.

SSUM: right

Flatzoid: It's ice. You're on a glacier. You're on a big block of ice.

???: Like a plateau, a giant plateau.

Flatzoid: you have to go deeper to reach Antarctica. Actually they claim it's part of Antarctica but it's just the outer edges, the how can I put it, the Stup.

SSUM: The shoreline.

Flatzoid: Yeah the shoreline. The, the Ice, yeah, it's not actually the land.

Glaciers are ice masses on land.

A glacier (US: /ˈɡleɪʃər/; UK: /ˈɡlæsiə/ or /ˈɡleɪsiə/) is a persistent body of dense ice, a form of rock, that is constantly moving downhill under its own weight. A glacier forms where the accumulation of snow exceeds its ablation over many years, often centuries. It acquires distinguishing features, such as crevasses and seracs, as it slowly flows and deforms under stresses induced by its weight. As it moves, it abrades rock and debris from its substrate to create landforms such as cirques, moraines, or fjords. Although a glacier may flow into a body of water, it forms only on land and is distinct from the much thinner sea ice and lake ice that form on the surface of bodies of water.

Furthermore, Union Glacier is over 700 km away from the closest shoreline.

How to fake

Flatzoid claims TFE was rendered in Unreal Engine

During a debate between Flatzoid and Dave McKeegan, Flatzoid claimed that he thinks that TFE could have been done in Unreal Engine.

Flatzoid: My uh idea is how they could have faked it was Duffy or someone could have gone earlier and and got high def HDRs uh surround environments of Antarctica, because when you look at the in the footage we don't see Union Glacier anywhere around there and they're only about 1.5 km away you should see Union Glacier camp we don't see Union Glacier camp at Mount Rossman. So that shows that they were either probably there when it was off-season when there were no tourists available, they were able to get their uh environment done, HDR environment done, and they could make recreate it in Unreal Engine 5 if they wanted to and therefore when they did all really go down in December they were able to just fake the sky and have the rest as a real environment.

Dave McKeegan made a great video about how it's not possible to use Unreal Engine to fake TFE.

As for the camp not being visible, that was already explained before.

Green Screen

Flatzoid tried to show how TFE was faked by supposedly using a green screen, completely ignoring that the TFE team already showed that it's not possible for them to have used a green screen. WheresWally's video also shows that a studio is not possible as they are walking through a vastly larger area, also the studio can't be used with multiple different cameras filming it from vastly different angles.

General Issues

Plane flight ceiling

According to Flatzoid the flight ceiling of planes flying over Antarctica is 13,000 feet.

Flatzoid: Why they have a ceiling of 13,000 ft when flying in Antarctica?

Of course that's a lie. The planes fly at over 35,000 ft. Apparently Flatzoid already looked that up himself.

Calling Steve from England

Flatzoid had a livestream with Steve from England and Will Duffy to ask among other things about Will not calling Steve on the first day. Steve was annoyed that he wasn't called the first day, even though Will specifically stated that he might not be able to call Steve on the first day.

Will Duffy: So let's talk about the clouds for a second. So I don't know which day we're going to be able to do this. Um, maybe we can do it on the 14th, but if, but if we can't, maybe we'll do it on the 15th. We have, we have a few days, if there's cloud coverage, I think what we should do is, try to do it the next day, and I think we should try to do it each day until we have clear skies.

Will Duffy: I'm giving you my my word here publicly and I'm looking forward to doing this test with you specifically at that time one of the days we're there.

If having a live call is so important, Critical Think had one with his friend. There is a second call, Where are the guns call between Toon and Oakley. That call wasn't livestreamed, but the 360° cameras captured it.

24 hour live stream

Flatzoid and his panel like to bring up the TFE team not having a 24 hour livestream. Will never promised that they will have a 24 hour live stream, as he didn't know how well the Starlink would perform in Antarctica. He did attempt it, but because of a software update of his phone and Starlink, the stream was interrupted and in the end aborted. Flerfs like to demand the evidence they didn't get, and even if they did get it, they wouldn't accept it.

There were multiple live streams during TFE , the ones taking place outside at halfway point, were all captured by the 360° cameras.

Of course they are just claiming that all of those were fake.

Timing issues

Date of Arrival

Flatzoid: 10th of December. He claimed they literally got there and then they had to get ready and go eat, and then leave the next day, to uh go to uh Union Glacier. And they went to Union Glacier on the 14th. So that means his ticket that says the 10th of December shows he was at Punta Arenas way before he claimed to be there.

Jeran arrived on the 10th at Punta Arenas. They stayed a few days in Punta Arenas, where they did some observations like the sunset in the South West, before continuing their journey to Union Glacier. After they arrived at Union Glacier on the 14th that's when he said that they arrived, ate something and moved immediately to the TFE camp.

Masonic rituals

Nipples on ice

Taking a group photo with some people being topless is also masonic, according to Flatzoid or his viewers.

Flatzoid: The problem with that is it's based on a Mason ritual. Especially the the check, cuz it's shirt off, shirt on, shirt off, shirt on, and that's why everybody is saying, yeah it's based on on Freemason symbolism.

Left boot

According to Flatzoid putting a left boot under a table is masonic.

When you actually read the text, which Flatzoid obviously didn't. You can see that the ritual involves taking off your shoe when entering a building. Dave McKeegan was outside and didn't even wear that boot.

The custom of removing shoes on entering a sacred building dates to extreme antiquity, it is a token of reverence and humility.

It is known as the “Rite of Discalceation” and in the language of symbolism, signifies that the place that is approached in reverence and humility is consecrated to some holy purpose.