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Flerfs have claimed that [[Wikipedia:Polaris|Polaris]] has been seen from the [[Wikipedia:Southern Hemisphere|Southern Hemisphere]]. This originally comes from [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]'s ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'' from 1865:
Flerfs claim that [[Wikipedia:Polaris|Polaris]] has been seen from the [[Wikipedia:Southern Hemisphere|Southern Hemisphere]].
<blockquote>If the Earth is a sphere and the pole star hangs over the northern axis, it would be impossible to see it for a single degree beyond the equator, or 90 degrees from the pole. The line-of-sight would become a tangent to the sphere, and consequently several thousand miles out of and divergent from the direction of the pole-star. Many cases, however, are on record of the north polar star being visible far beyond the equator, as far even as the tropic of Capricorn. In the Times newspaper of May 13, 1862, under the head of "Naval and Military Intelligence," it is stated that Captain Wilkins distinctly saw the Southern Cross and the polar star at midnight in 23°53 degrees of latitude, and longitude 35°46. This would be utterly impossible if the Earth were a globe.</blockquote>


<gallery>
[[Eric Dubay]] has made the claim,<ref>https://youtu.be/IOSW_LAs67Y?t=265</ref> and explicitly cited William Carpenter as his source. (See [[#William Carpenter|§ William Carpenter]] below.)
File:Rowbotham p41.png|thumb|Rowbotham quote, page 41
File:Rowbotham p42.png|thumb|Rowbotham quote, page 42
</gallery>


However, Rowbotham's only cited source does not say the observation took place at a southern latitude:
[[Dave Weiss]] has repeated the claim many times.
<ref>Feb 28, 2025 livestream titled "DIRTH & KIC Presents: Flat Earth Roundtable 2025," now privated. Reviewed on several glober livestreams like [https://www.youtube.com/live/U67BakLdDEA?t=4276 MCToon's Mar 6, 2025]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/9b3kSZnu4hw?t=2186 <q>DefiantAngelPrincess PODCAST w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/orj2zr_9RMw?t=4524 <q>Special Edition Of World Edition. 4 GLOBE HEADS</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/ToEl-3856hQ?t=853 <q>Fayth Julius - Student Film - The Flat Earth Conspiracy- FULL INTERVIEW</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/_wq9HX2naHg?t=1588 <q>Koli and John form Fiji w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/9cXN36XU4es?t=3054 <q>Half Empty Cup of Joe - Flat Earth Dave - December 2023</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/fFY_RLTJrps?t=2909 <q>TruthLab PODCAST with Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/E-2cVLQz-RA?t=3438 <q>THE LOFT PROJECT Episode 25 Dave Weiss DIRTH responds to David Chandler from AE 911 Truth</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/asfHhf1C2uY?t=2019 <q>Flat Earth Watertown NY w David Weiss</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/k4EuOVtEPzk?t=670 <q>147 - Under the Dough mmm</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PLnSPtPan_s?t=1441 <q>Richie Allen Show Dec 14, 2022 Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/Q8HdfbM1AgM?t=3891 <q>Moral Bob Podcast - Flat Earth David Weiss</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/vayLQRoQlE4?t=3434 <q>#061 Making the case for a Flat Earth w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/VGVrvdVSMQs?t=3185 <q>Off The Dome (GLOBER) with Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/XC9DovK63wU?t=1730 <q>2 Flat earthers & 3 Globies walk into a room. No Globies walk out,</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/oW6FmKszDWc?t=4366 <q>Lauren DeLaguna PODCAST with Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/JZx8SVnM1pc?t=3320 <q>Flat Earth Discussion - Witsit & Dave Weiss w/ Pr. James Fetzer</q> by Witsit Gets It]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/9AlFdk7TMf4?t=4004 <q>Tiana Khalid PODCAST w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/JYo593wIYM4?t=2624 <q>Estonia AnCast Podcast w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/tA5snyJZnd0?t=4593 <q>Owen Benjamin, Crrow777 & Flat Earth Dave - Why it matters!</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/by0tkYqKQBQ?t=7844 <q>High School Student wants to go into astronomy 1080WebShareName</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/l5xCHTdtgvY?t=4479 <q>Community Assembly Seminar UK with Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/trULigywjyM?t=2947 <q>Ken Wheeler discusses FLAT EARTH</q> by The Big Picture]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/1gyTiX1K4EE?t=2833 <q>Ken Wheeler Talks Flat Earth Reupload, Sound Fixed, Better Video</q> by flatty]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcPfZpV45fE?t=4930 <q>Dave Weiss & Spacebusters Bust the Ball</q> by Spacebusters]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/SDeSZDFyxfY?t=1862 <q>Tinfoil Hat w Eddie Bravo + Globehead + David Weiss</q> by DITRH DAVE]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/czjMMCS974E?t=3014 <q>Benjamin Balderson, Flat Earth Dave and company</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/i-ZcHot51Zc?t=3137 <q>You can't teach an old dog new Flat Earth tricks! - Pr. James Fetzer</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/Ed6rxvQq2RM?t=2762 <q>The Matrix Minds w Flat Earth Dave</q> by Flat Earth Dave Interviews]</ref>


<blockquote>On the 19th of April, in lat. 23°53, long. 35°46, Capt. Wilkins reports that the southern cross and polar star were both distinctly visible at midnight.</blockquote>
 
= Samuel Rowbotham =
 
[[File:Rowbotham p41 CROP.png|right|thumb|Samuel Rowbotham incorrectly citing the ''Times'' column to support his claims.]]
 
The claim originally comes from [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]'s ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'' from 1865:<ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ</ref>
<blockquote>If the Earth is a sphere and the pole star hangs over the northern axis, it would be impossible to see it for a single degree beyond the equator, or 90 degrees from the pole. The line-of-sight would become a tangent to the sphere, and consequently several thousand miles out of and divergent from the direction of the pole-star. Many cases, however, are on record of the north polar star being visible far beyond the equator, as far even as the tropic of Capricorn. In the Times newspaper of May 13, 1862, under the head of "Naval and Military Intelligence," it is stated that Captain Wilkins distinctly saw the Southern Cross and the polar star at midnight in 23.53 degrees of latitude, and longitude 35.46. This would be utterly impossible if the Earth were a globe.</blockquote>
 
However, Rowbotham's only cited source does not say the observation took place at a southern latitude:<ref>"Naval and Military Intelligence" column from ''Times'' issue May 13, 1862 https://www.thetimes.com/tto/archive/page/1862-05-13/12.html</ref>
 
<blockquote>On the 19th of April, in lat. 23.53, long. 35.46, Capt. Wilkins reports that the southern cross and polar star were both distinctly visible at midnight.</blockquote>


[[File:The Times 1862-05-13 column CROP.jpg|center|thumb|''Times'' column "Naval and Military Intelligence" from May 13, 1862]]
[[File:The Times 1862-05-13 column CROP.jpg|center|thumb|''Times'' column "Naval and Military Intelligence" from May 13, 1862]]


Here is what J. Dyer had to say about it in ''The Spherical Form of the Earth: a Reply to Parallax'' (1870), page 59:<ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=kpJaAAAAcAAJ</ref>
Rowbotham originally wrote under the pseudonym "Parallax." Here is what J. Dyer had to say in ''The Spherical Form of the Earth: a Reply to Parallax'' (1870), page 59:<ref>https://books.google.com/books?id=kpJaAAAAcAAJ</ref>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>If Parallax had given the particulars as they are stated in the "Times," any one might have said it was not at the Tropic of Capricorn that Captain Wilkins saw these heavenly bodies. &hellip; The longitude must have been west. And the latitude was doubtless north, near the Tropic of Cancer, for had it been south, the ship would have been near the coast of South America, not far from Rio Janeiro, and therefore 36 degrees of longitude out of the usual track of ships from the Cape to England; that being about one degree east longitude when crossing the Tropic of Capricorn.</p>
<p>If Parallax had given the particulars as they are stated in the "Times," any one might have said it was not at the Tropic of Capricorn that Captain Wilkins saw these heavenly bodies. &hellip; The longitude must have been west. And the latitude was doubtless north, near the Tropic of Cancer, for had it been south, the ship would have been near the coast of South America, not far from Rio Janeiro, and therefore 36 degrees of longitude out of the usual track of ships from the Cape to England; that being about one degree east longitude when crossing the Tropic of Capricorn.</p>
Line 20: Line 55:
</blockquote>
</blockquote>


= References =
= William Carpenter =
 
A direct proselyte of Rowbotham, [[Wikipedia:William Carpenter (flat-Earth theorist)|William Carpenter]], repeated this claim in his book ''One Hundred Proofs'':<ref>Proof 71, page 19 (1886) https://www.loc.gov/item/52055019/</ref>
 
<blockquote>The astronomers' theory of a globular Earth necessitates the conclusion that, if we travel south of the equator, to see the North Star is an impossibility. Yet it is well known this star has been seen by navigators when they have been more than 20 degrees south of the equator.</blockquote>
 
Carpenter gave no citations for this claim, and almost certainly got it from Rowbotham.
 
= Footnotes =
<references/>
<references/>


[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf lies]]

Latest revision as of 18:15, 6 June 2026

Flerfs claim that Polaris has been seen from the Southern Hemisphere.

Eric Dubay has made the claim,[1] and explicitly cited William Carpenter as his source. (See § William Carpenter below.)

Dave Weiss has repeated the claim many times. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30]


Samuel Rowbotham

Samuel Rowbotham incorrectly citing the Times column to support his claims.

The claim originally comes from Samuel Rowbotham's Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe from 1865:[31]

If the Earth is a sphere and the pole star hangs over the northern axis, it would be impossible to see it for a single degree beyond the equator, or 90 degrees from the pole. The line-of-sight would become a tangent to the sphere, and consequently several thousand miles out of and divergent from the direction of the pole-star. Many cases, however, are on record of the north polar star being visible far beyond the equator, as far even as the tropic of Capricorn. In the Times newspaper of May 13, 1862, under the head of "Naval and Military Intelligence," it is stated that Captain Wilkins distinctly saw the Southern Cross and the polar star at midnight in 23.53 degrees of latitude, and longitude 35.46. This would be utterly impossible if the Earth were a globe.

However, Rowbotham's only cited source does not say the observation took place at a southern latitude:[32]

On the 19th of April, in lat. 23.53, long. 35.46, Capt. Wilkins reports that the southern cross and polar star were both distinctly visible at midnight.

Times column "Naval and Military Intelligence" from May 13, 1862

Rowbotham originally wrote under the pseudonym "Parallax." Here is what J. Dyer had to say in The Spherical Form of the Earth: a Reply to Parallax (1870), page 59:[33]

If Parallax had given the particulars as they are stated in the "Times," any one might have said it was not at the Tropic of Capricorn that Captain Wilkins saw these heavenly bodies. … The longitude must have been west. And the latitude was doubtless north, near the Tropic of Cancer, for had it been south, the ship would have been near the coast of South America, not far from Rio Janeiro, and therefore 36 degrees of longitude out of the usual track of ships from the Cape to England; that being about one degree east longitude when crossing the Tropic of Capricorn.

The Southern Cross and the North Polar Star can both be seen at midnight from the Tropic of Cancer, and it must have been from this position that Captain Wilkins saw them. From this latitude the former would appear about 24 degrees above the horizon in the north, and the latter about 9 degrees above the horizon in the south.

Respecting this matter, Parallax not only asserts that which is erroneous, and makes it appear that Captain Wilkins favours his views, but at page 42 of his book he has given a diagram to illustrate the subject. … In a school-boy these [mistakes] would be justly censured, if not followed with some kind of punishment; but in a person of Parallax's pretensions—one who has for years being going about the country parading his knowledge of mathematics before mankind, and everywhere throwing down the gauntlet before mathematicians—it is perfectly ridiculous.

William Carpenter

A direct proselyte of Rowbotham, William Carpenter, repeated this claim in his book One Hundred Proofs:[34]

The astronomers' theory of a globular Earth necessitates the conclusion that, if we travel south of the equator, to see the North Star is an impossibility. Yet it is well known this star has been seen by navigators when they have been more than 20 degrees south of the equator.

Carpenter gave no citations for this claim, and almost certainly got it from Rowbotham.

Footnotes

  1. https://youtu.be/IOSW_LAs67Y?t=265
  2. Feb 28, 2025 livestream titled "DIRTH & KIC Presents: Flat Earth Roundtable 2025," now privated. Reviewed on several glober livestreams like MCToon's Mar 6, 2025
  3. DefiantAngelPrincess PODCAST w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  4. Special Edition Of World Edition. 4 GLOBE HEADS by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  5. Fayth Julius - Student Film - The Flat Earth Conspiracy- FULL INTERVIEW by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  6. Koli and John form Fiji w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  7. Half Empty Cup of Joe - Flat Earth Dave - December 2023 by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  8. TruthLab PODCAST with Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  9. THE LOFT PROJECT Episode 25 Dave Weiss DIRTH responds to David Chandler from AE 911 Truth by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  10. Flat Earth Watertown NY w David Weiss by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  11. 147 - Under the Dough mmm by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  12. Richie Allen Show Dec 14, 2022 Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  13. Moral Bob Podcast - Flat Earth David Weiss by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  14. #061 Making the case for a Flat Earth w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  15. Off The Dome (GLOBER) with Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  16. 2 Flat earthers & 3 Globies walk into a room. No Globies walk out, by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  17. Lauren DeLaguna PODCAST with Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  18. Flat Earth Discussion - Witsit & Dave Weiss w/ Pr. James Fetzer by Witsit Gets It
  19. Tiana Khalid PODCAST w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  20. Estonia AnCast Podcast w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  21. Owen Benjamin, Crrow777 & Flat Earth Dave - Why it matters! by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  22. High School Student wants to go into astronomy 1080WebShareName by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  23. Community Assembly Seminar UK with Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  24. Ken Wheeler discusses FLAT EARTH by The Big Picture
  25. Ken Wheeler Talks Flat Earth Reupload, Sound Fixed, Better Video by flatty
  26. Dave Weiss & Spacebusters Bust the Ball by Spacebusters
  27. Tinfoil Hat w Eddie Bravo + Globehead + David Weiss by DITRH DAVE
  28. Benjamin Balderson, Flat Earth Dave and company by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  29. You can't teach an old dog new Flat Earth tricks! - Pr. James Fetzer by Flat Earth Dave Interviews 2
  30. The Matrix Minds w Flat Earth Dave by Flat Earth Dave Interviews
  31. https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ
  32. "Naval and Military Intelligence" column from Times issue May 13, 1862 https://www.thetimes.com/tto/archive/page/1862-05-13/12.html
  33. https://books.google.com/books?id=kpJaAAAAcAAJ
  34. Proof 71, page 19 (1886) https://www.loc.gov/item/52055019/