Flerf Wiki - User contributions [en]

Laws of Flerf

2026-05-23T15:11:41Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust wording

[[:Category:Flerfs|Flerfs]] are generally [[Wikipedia:Bad faith|bad faith]] [[Wikipedia:Cult|cultists]]; over other population segments, they disproportionately exhibit lying, abuse, threats/bullying, harassment, [[Wikipedia:Mental disorder|mental illness]], [[:Category:Flerfzis|antisemitism]], and [[:Category:Criminals|breaking the law]].

This gives rise to the adage: '''''Gotta lie to flerf,''''' which is formalized with more detail in the list below.

= Formal List =

# Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions.
# Flerf challenges are fake. Two exceptions.
# Flerfs are pseudoscientists when evaluating FE and science deniers when evaluating globe evidence. No exceptions.
# Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions.

= Proposed Addenda =
There is a proposed fifth law that has not yet gained formal status:

<ol start="5"><li>Every flerf claim about glober character or rhetoric is a self-report, actually describing flerf character and rhetoric.</li></ol>

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Bad faith showcase]]
* [[Rowbothamism]]
* [[:Category:Flerf lies]]

= Exceptions to laws of Flerf =
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] challenged Critical Think to record his travel to Australia after [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] issued an open challenge to prove what [[Jeran Campanella]] said while talking about the path of the sun during [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]

Laws of Flerf

2026-05-23T15:09:37Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust wording

[[:Category:Flerfs|Flerfs]] are generally [[Wikipedia:Bad faith|bad faith]] [[Wikipedia:Cult|cultists]]; over other population segments, they disproportionately exhibit lying, abuse, threats/bullying, harassment, [[Wikipedia:Mental disorder|mental illness]], [[:Category:Flerfzis|antisemitism]], and [[:Category:Criminals|breaking the law]].

This gives rise to the adage: '''''Gotta lie to flerf,''''' which is formalized with more detail in the list below.

= Formal List =

# Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions.
# Flerf challenges are fake. Two exceptions.
# Flerfs are pseudoscientists when evaluating FE and science deniers when evaluating globe evidence. No exceptions.
# Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions.

= Proposed Addenda =
There is a proposed fifth law that has not yet gained formal status:

<ol start="5"><li>Every flerf claim about glober character or behavior is a self-report.</li></ol>

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Bad faith showcase]]
* [[Rowbothamism]]
* [[:Category:Flerf lies]]

= Exceptions to laws of Flerf =
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] challenged Critical Think to record his travel to Australia after [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] issued an open challenge to prove what [[Jeran Campanella]] said while talking about the path of the sun during [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]

Laws of Flerf

2026-05-23T15:04:24Z

PeterMarkley: Add proposed fifth law

[[:Category:Flerfs|Flerfs]] are generally [[Wikipedia:Bad faith|bad faith]] [[Wikipedia:Cult|cultists]]; over other population segments, they disproportionately exhibit lying, abuse, threats/bullying, harassment, [[Wikipedia:Mental disorder|mental illness]], [[:Category:Flerfzis|antisemitism]], and [[:Category:Criminals|breaking the law]].

This gives rise to the adage: '''''Gotta lie to flerf,''''' which is formalized with more detail in the list below.

= Formal List =

# Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions.
# Flerf challenges are fake. Two exceptions.
# Flerfs are pseudoscientists when evaluating FE and science deniers when evaluating globe evidence. No exceptions.
# Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions.

= Proposed Addenda =
There is a proposed fifth law that has not yet gained formal status:

<ol start="5"><li>Every flerf claim about glober behavior is a self-report.</li></ol>

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Bad faith showcase]]
* [[Rowbothamism]]
* [[:Category:Flerf lies]]

= Exceptions to laws of Flerf =
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] challenged Critical Think to record his travel to Australia after [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.
* Flat earther [[Steve from England]] issued an open challenge to prove what [[Jeran Campanella]] said while talking about the path of the sun during [[The Final Experiment]] and paid.

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]

Neil Cosentino

2026-05-08T22:45:47Z

PeterMarkley: Update with new photo

{{Infobox
| realName = Neil Cosentino
| alias = Temu Joe Pesci aka Nathan's White Chihuahua
| image = File:Neil Cosentino.jpeg
| location = US
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/@neilcosentino3548 YouTube]
| papa = [[Nathan Oakley]]
| antisemite = Unknown
| religiflerf = Yes
| Drinks urine = Nathan does so Neil does as Nathan does
}}

Neil is one of [[Nathan Oakley]]'s disciples. Probably Nathan's fiercest lapdogs. If by fierce you mean "yaps aggressively when he feels that Nathan's countenance has been besmirched".

Neil remains blissfully ensconced in a state of intellectual subjugation, utterly bewitched by Nathan’s masterful deployment of the petitio principii fallacy, wherein every circular premise is swallowed as an unassailable gospel truth. Through the artful use of reification, Nathan breathes concrete life into ephemeral abstractions, transforming mere linguistic ghosts into formidable realities that Neil serves with a zealot’s blind devotion. This grand orchestration of sophistry has rendered Neil a tragic puppet of cognitive dissonance, forever dancing upon the strings of Nathan’s grandiloquent and deceptive design.

Despite Nathan’s profane vernacular and his lewd, metaphorical predilection for "climbing upon" non-consenting men, the pious Neil remains tethered to a state of profound moral paralysis. He greets Nathan’s relentless barrage of mendacity with a serene, unblinking reverence, utterly failing to reconcile his sacred convictions with his companion’s grotesque and carnal theater. This baffling cognitive surrender ensures that Neil’s religious devotion remains a hollow shell, effortlessly bypassed by Nathan’s crude and predatory machinations.

== The Irony ==
Neil's lord and savior, The Nathan, freely mutes and blocks people that contradict his question begging. While other channels ensure that Neil's comments are never blocked.

[[File:MCToon_preapproving_Neil.png]]

File:Neil Cosentino.jpeg

2026-05-08T22:44:54Z

PeterMarkley: Neil Cosentino<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/W1eKRpZ9VL0?t=3058</ref> = References = <references/>

== Summary ==
[[Neil Cosentino]]<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/W1eKRpZ9VL0?t=3058</ref>
= References =
<references/>

Yeah Right lol 3-16

2026-05-08T04:49:41Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article text

On a May 5, 2026 livestream,<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/QTIXZbTJMkk</ref> Toon and his audience were discussing [[Austin Witsit]]’s very messy and very public breakup with his girlfriend. The breakup included disputes over child custody and child support.

During the livestream, a user named <code>Yeahrightlol3.16</code> joined Toon’s live chat and wrote the following messages:

<blockquote>
bullying and pathetic shame on all of you,try and sugarcoat it any way you want it was online bullying 
… 
ky is a flat earth liar to just remember that always 2 sides to a story 
… 
your still discussing someone’s family problems that have absolutely nothing to do with you,ky is a liar to so dont believe any of them so change the subject its nothing to do with any of you 
… 
your all pathetic,trying to make money of other people’s family problems,all this for views and like this is absolutely disgraceful and pathetic 
… 
not defending anyone,this is not a subject for you or anyone except who ever is dealing with there problems
</blockquote>

Toon assumed this user was a flat earther and created the [https://www.flerf.info/index.php?title=Yeah_Right_lol_3-16&oldid=7453 first revision] of this article (here, the one that you’re reading) as a Flerf profile on the Flerf Wiki, mocking Yeahright. He then posted a link to the article in the livestream, congratulating Yeahright for being part of the Flerf Wiki.

Yeahright responded:

<blockquote>
lol toons for a start im no flat earther,and that was just sad and childish what you just did dk
</blockquote>

In spite of the tendency of flerfs to [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|pretend they’re not flerfs]], Toon’s assumption that Yeahright is a flerf was later reexamined and determined inconclusive from available evidence.

= References =
<references/>

Yeah Right lol 3-16

2026-05-08T04:48:13Z

PeterMarkley: Rewrite article

On a May 5, 2026 livestream,<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/QTIXZbTJMkk</ref> Toon and his audience were discussing [[Austin Witsit]]’s very messy and very public breakup with his girlfriend. The breakup included disputes over child custody and child support.

During the livestream, a user named <code>Yeahrightlol3.16</code> joined Toon’s live chat and wrote the following messages:

<blockquote>
bullying and pathetic shame on all of you,try and sugarcoat it any way you want it was online bullying 
… 
ky is a flat earth liar to just remember that always 2 sides to a story 
… 
your still discussing someone’s family problems that have absolutely nothing to do with you,ky is a liar to so dont believe any of them so change the subject its nothing to do with any of you 
… 
your all pathetic,trying to make money of other people’s family problems,all this for views and like this is absolutely disgraceful and pathetic 
… 
not defending anyone,this is not a subject for you or anyone except who ever is dealing with there problems
</blockquote>

Toon assumed this user was a flat earther and created the [https://www.flerf.info/index.php?title=Yeah_Right_lol_3-16&oldid=7453 first revision] of this article (here, the one that you’re reading) as a Flerf profile on the Flerf Wiki. He then posted a link to the article in the livestream, congratulating Yeahright for being part of the Flerf Wiki.

Yeahright responded:

<blockquote>
lol toons for a start im no flat earther,and that was just sad and childish what you just did dk
</blockquote>

In spite of the tendency of flerfs to [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|pretend they’re not flerfs]], Toon’s assumption that Yeahright is a flerf was later reexamined and determined inconclusive from available evidence.

= References =
<references/>

Flat Earth Reconnaissance

2026-05-06T05:51:48Z

PeterMarkley: Formatting

{{Infobox
| realName = Sam Abucaya
| alias=Flat Earth Reconnaissance you know
| image = File:Sam_Abucaya.png
| location = Israel
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/@flatearthreconnaissance YouTube]
| papa = [[Mikey Smith]] formerly [[DIRTH]] before Sam backstabbed DIRTh.
| antisemite = No, he is a semite
| religiflerf = Yes
| drinksUrine = never been falsified
| adoptedBy=MxXxD
}}

Sam Abucaya is an idiot, you know.

Early in Sam's career Sam tried to assist DIRTh by doing recon on [[MCToon]], then reporting to DIRTh the super woke evidence he garnered. He didn't garner any but still reported to DIRTh. However, the report wasn't accompanied by money so DIRTh didn't care. This hurt Sammy in the feelz.

This became the foundation for Sam to eventually stab DIRTh in the back. Sam did a 2 part exposé on DIRTh: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kB53pcy6H0 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kRN-hnSxDY 

Sam has been clocked at 8 to 15 Ykpm (You knows per minute).

Sam and Mikey share the delusion they are the only people in the world taking real pictures of stars.
He is also a master of explaining with hand gestures.

== Bald ==
Sam is not bald, proof:<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkeUghrCE5M</ref> 
[[File:Sam_Abucaya_is_not_bald.webp|300px]]

= References =
<references/>

File:Sam Abucaya is not bald.webp

2026-05-06T05:49:32Z

PeterMarkley: Add summary

== Summary ==
[[Flat Earth Reconnaissance]] proving that he’s not bald<ref> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkeUghrCE5M</ref>
= References =
<references/>

Sea Sparrow

2026-04-17T04:28:08Z

PeterMarkley: Fix typo

The Sea Sparrow Missile is used in a claim by some flerfs to support the flat earth nonsense. As always this is based on lies, misunderstandings, and lies.

The claim goes like this:
# The Sea sparrow Missile has a long range
# The ship launching it must paint the target with a "2° RF pencil beam"
# It goes super far, too far for globe
# Magic
# Therefore flat

Each of these steps is incorrect.
'''The Sea sparrow Missile has a long range'''
Here's the claim from [[Quantum Eraser]]'s toilet paper brand called [[Book_Welcome_to_Flat_Earth|Welcome to Flat Earth]]:

[[File:QE_Sea_Sparrow_1.png]] 
Wow! 50km you say? He even [https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/evolved-sea-sparrow-missile-essm/ quotes a web page and links to it]. This is reverse psychology in action. Flerfs won't look, they think that since there's a citation it must be true. But, let's look at the context:

[[File:QE_Sea_Sparrow_2.png]] 
In context the lie is exposed. The system doesn't have a range of 50km, the motor does. That doesn't mean the system does. The citation QE provides doesn't state the range of the system. There are no sources that state the range of the system, this is classified.

Further, the Sea Sparrow is not strictly a surface to surface missile, it's also a Surface to Air missile. QE's entire premise relies on surface to surface only.

'''The ship launching it must paint the target with a "2° RF pencil beam"'''
2 degrees is not pencil thin. At 20km a 2° beam is nearly 700m wide. Hardly pencil thin. But, it is true that the radar must pain the target for the Block 1 missile to hit it.

[[File:QE_Sea_Sparrow_3.png|thumb|400px]]
'''It goes super far, too far for globe'''
QE makes this astounding claim:

"On board ship with a 50-foot radar height, Earth’s curvature should block targets beyond
13.9 km (8.65 miles) by 463 feet, yet the ESSM Block I hits targets over 50 km away."

It's unclear how he computed this. But, you can compute this for yourself using [https://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Advanced+Earth+Curvature+Calculator Walter Bislin's Advanced Earth Curve Calculator]. According to actual computation, and not even including the real-world effects of refraction there is a predicted blockage of ZERO FEET.

Where did he get the 50 foot height? He doesn't say.
Why did he choose 13.9km (8.65 miles)? He doesn't say.
Where is the citation that ESSM 1 "hits targets over 50 km away"? He doesn't say.
Is this unsubstantiated target on the surface or the air? He doesn't say.

That's a lot of "trust me bro".

Let's see what information is actually available.

How high is the radar? The military doesn't share these details, but simple analysis can answer this question.

The radar is mounted on the elevated superstructure of the ships. Why? To increase rage. If the earth were flat physics/geometry would not require this.

The Ticonderoga-class cruisers are the tallest ships the RIM-162 Sea Sparrow is used with. The [https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1987/january/handling-ticonderoga bridge eye-height is 64] feet and the parabolic dishes for the radar is above the bridge as seen in the photo.
[[File:Ticonderoga_cruiser.jpg|400px|Ticonderoga-class cruiser]]

The ship on the left is a Ticonderoga-class cruiser showing the two parabolic antennas above the bridge.
[[File:Ticonderoga_cruiser_on_left.jpg|400px|Ticonderoga-class cruiser on left]]

The dishes are [https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/07.naval/karte047.en.html 7.5 feet tall]. Looking at the photo, measuring the pixels from the water to the bridge (468px) then the pixels to the center of the dish (78) and using the eye height of the bridge (64 feet) we get at least 10 feet higher than the eye height of the bridge for the center of the dish. Placing the radar at least 74 feet high.

[[File:Ticonderoga_radar_height.png|300px]]

Targeting a ship on the surface will require a large ship, no dingy's. They will be large, at least 30 feet tall.

So, how far under realistic conditions can this radar paint the top half of a 30 foot tall ship across the surface? 18 miles/29 km. Is there any evidence that the Sea Sparrow has ever hit a target this far away? NO!

[[File:QE_Sea_Sparrow_4.png|400px]]

Does the radar go to farr for the globe? There is no evidence that it does.

'''Magic'''
This is the essential ingredient for flat earth.

'''Therefore flat earth'''
This is simply a non-sequitur. Even if everything were correct. You can't even conclude "not globe" if everything he claimed was correct. Since there is a max distance there MUST be curve blocking the radar. The strongest conclusion would be a sphere with a larger radius. This would not match other measurements so be an outlier indicating flawed methodology or a blunder of some sort.

== Further Info ==

Being a flerf, QE doesn't do research. If he did he would know that ships other than the one launching the missile can do the painting.

[https://mctoon27.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/sea-sparrow-and-the-cec-16-04-aplteam.pdf| The Cooperative Engagement Capability] gives an overview of how this works. Specifically mentioning the Sea Sparrow.

File:Flerf sock account threatening Toon.jpeg

2026-04-09T20:18:56Z

PeterMarkley: Add name

== Summary ==
A sock account of [[Jennifer Gilbert]] threatening [[User:MCToon|MCToon]].<ref> https://www.youtube.com/live/YCOxwZjOaNg?t=1h17m0s</ref> See also [[Flerf threats]]

File:Flerf sock account threatening Toon.jpeg

2026-04-09T20:18:02Z

PeterMarkley: PeterMarkley uploaded a new version of File:Flerf sock account threatening Toon.jpeg

== Summary ==
A flerf sock account threatening [[User:MCToon|MCToon]].<ref> https://www.youtube.com/live/YCOxwZjOaNg?t=1h17m0s</ref> See also [[Flerf threats]]

Flerf threats

2026-04-06T23:59:50Z

PeterMarkley: Add screenshot

This lists examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] making violent or menacing threats toward people they dislike or disagree with. For a list of articles on this Wiki for flerfs who have made threats, see [[:Category:Flerfs who threaten violence]].

= List of Examples =

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[Dean Odle]] said:<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxPIihuit40tZTjfhD3N4K_JsyVm7DZG_</ref><blockquote>[[User:MCToon|Toon]] is one of these guys that— one of these globe tards that [[The Final Experiment|went to Antartica]]. Yeah, he's a globetard. Probably a government agent, more than likely. But he keeps attackin' me. I'm gonna tell you what, this is one guy I'd just like to take out behind the woodshed, let old Dean come out for a minute, alright? But he better be glad I love Jesus—right?—and have brought the flesh under control.</blockquote>The phrase "take (someone) behind the woodshed" is a southern United States idiom for giving them a beating,<ref>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trip_to_the_woodshed</ref><ref>https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+(one)+behind+the+woodshed</ref> and Odle followed this with an anecdote about his ability to kick someone in the ribs.

== Screenshot Gallery ==

[[File:Flerf Threats - GredGoodley.png|thumb|left]]

[[File:Flerf Threats - HARDHITTINNB83.png|thumb|left|400px]]

[[File:DamascusSteel-j1f Threat.jpeg|thumb|left]]

[[File:Jin1-cbr-violence-kickingteethin.png|thumb|left|512px]]

[[File:Flerf sock account threatening Toon.jpeg|thumb|left]]

<hr style="clear:both;"/>

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Flerfs who threaten violence]]
* [[Corrupted flerf gospel]]

= References =

[[Category:Bad faith showcase]]
[[Category:Lists]]

File:Flerf sock account threatening Toon.jpeg

2026-04-06T23:58:25Z

PeterMarkley: A flerf sock account threatening MCToon.<ref> https://www.youtube.com/live/YCOxwZjOaNg?t=1h17m0s</ref> See also Flerf threats

== Summary ==
A flerf sock account threatening [[User:MCToon|MCToon]].<ref> https://www.youtube.com/live/YCOxwZjOaNg?t=1h17m0s</ref> See also [[Flerf threats]]

Corrupted flerf gospel

2026-04-06T15:32:15Z

PeterMarkley: Add “Gwwad made the firmament” screenshot

This page is a list of examples where [[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] treat their belief in a flat earth as a requirement for salvation, suggesting that all globers will go to hell.

= Contradicting the Bible =

When flerfs do this, they are going against the Bible and in fact bringing a curse on themselves:<blockquote>I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, '''''let him be accursed.''''' As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, '''''let him be accursed.'''''Galatians 1:6-9 (ESV, emphasis added)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Galatians+1:6/</ref></blockquote>

The gospel that Paul refers to makes no reference to cosmology or shape of earth:<blockquote>But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”<ref>Quoted from [https://www.esv.org/Deuteronomy%2030:14/ Deuteronomy 30:14]</ref> (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Romans 10:8-9 (ESV)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Romans+10:8/</ref></blockquote>

= List of Examples =

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[Dean Odle]] said:<blockquote>If God said he set the world upon pillars and you say it's spinning and tilted and wobbling and flying, you're the fool and I'm going to promise you on Judgment Day you are going to be judged a fool, who setteth (?) not the counsel of God for your own belief system.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxxac09IZ_wWcQgn3H-YGi5C7IYOBZblJm</ref></blockquote>

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[King Nico]] tried to apply Matthew 24:24 to [[The Final Experiment]], implying that "the elect" refers to [[:Category:Religiflerfs|flerfs]].<ref>https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxA3fTzslhWc2XRlVgwL5RrIBr4CYlG4MS</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/p_FpG_1h6zg</ref> In reality this term means those whom God favors,<ref>https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/elect-election.html</ref> i.e. believers in Christ.

* On Feb 22, 2025 on [[Modern-Day Debate]], [[Nathan Thompson]] referred to his proselytizing of flat earth as “sharing the good news,”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxG-ws_d74iwFxiPjX03_wjtpj2e-Vk87e</ref> a phrase that among Christians usually refers to the gospel.

* On Apr 11, 2025 [[Dave Weiss]] explicitly told someone globers are not Christians:
<blockquote>
'''Interviewer:''' Just because you’re a Christian and believe in the Bible doesn’t mean you’re a flat-earther and vice versa.
'''Dave:''' Well no, the thing is: if you’re a Christian and you’re not a flat-earther, you’re a church-ian. You’re not a Christian. You’re just someone that follows the stuff in the church.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxgEpbT5KrCv-scaGlcslHieB1NBKvnVdU</ref>
</blockquote>

* On Apr 16, 2025 in a debate with Will Duffy [[Kingdom in Context|Sean Griffin]] repeatedly compared flat earth to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection of Christ]]:
<blockquote>We saw the absolute, contextual application of the firmament put onscreen; we saw the definitions of it put onscreen; we saw historical testimony put onscreen; and we saw Pastor Will Duffy deny all of it, saying it doesn’t exist because “It’s never been seen.” ‘Cause he doesn’t have the proof he needs to see it. With that logic, he doesn’t believe in the Resurrection of Christ or that believers in the audience will be resurrected to eternal life, which is the promise of the covenant that Christ is the firstfruits of.<ref>This is a reference to 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.</ref><ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxfqyDqm-jFA3Yth0wqH8CJqBdqAN_6qb</ref></blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''Moderator:''' (Reading a superchat from David English) Sean, what physical evidence would convince you that the globe model is true?
'''Sean:''' There’s always one of these questions. Not much, to be honest, because the Scriptures plainly teach a firm enclosed reality. So that’s like asking “How many times does a medical doctor have to tell me that there’s no resurrection before I disbelieve Christ’s resurrection?”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxbpO9f3vMZs-S-3ROZ-4oAkwqdzFTNtBr</ref>
</blockquote>

* On May 8, 2025 [[Kaypodgee]] posted a video calling belief in space a “faith problem:”<ref>https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTjfwBwK3/</ref><ref>She reposted the TikTok video on Facebook twice: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/168SN3FLCz/?mibextid=wwXIfr https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1E9Wvk64Ft/?mibextid=wwXIfr</ref>
<blockquote>Being a Christian that believes that we live on a spinning ball that's flying through space is a faith problem. … Righteousness is assigned based on faith in God’s word. … I’m not going to sugarcoat it: every single lukewarm openly tries to deny the semi-flat realm that God put us in; and consistently the people that are so clearly close to God just casually accept that, yes, we live in a semi-flat realm, because God said so. … Jesus is the word of God made flesh. Where does your faith stand if you think you’re going to refute what God said, with the word of a group of Scientology [sic] cult members…? You can’t pick and choose what you’re going to refute and what you’re going to believe in the Bible, because where does that end? Like, at what point does that come to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection]], and then you throw the whole thing away? … Oftentimes people think that the only issue when it comes to believing is believing that Jesus died on the Cross and rose and defeated our sins, and like that that’s our salvation. While that is the most important one for sure, you need to believe every word that God says to be considered righteous. So if you only believe in the one part that your pastor told you is essential, which obviously it is, but you don’t believe really anything else…? That just doesn’t sit right with me.</blockquote>

* Around July 5, 2025 [[Kyle Adams]] posted a YouTube Short<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/oY3pinLlL-w</ref> interviewing a child about [https://youtu.be/QV7F9-KJ80k their involvement in promoting flat earth.] At the end of the Short he said:
<blockquote>I think it’s really admirable to stand up for what you believe in. It’s kind of the whole thing of “I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,”<ref>Quoted from Romans 1:16</ref> right? So no matter what people might say in the future, it’s right there in the Bible.</blockquote>

* On March 29, 2026 during a "sermon" at Fire & Grace Church [[Dean Odle]] said:<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxumJjs3-_C5beTWwaQsp-sfMO5TCRD2S1</ref>
<blockquote>… Every one of them astronauts<ref>This could have referred to all astronauts generally, or to the crew of [[Wikipedia:Artemis II|Artemis II]] which launched 3 days later.</ref> are gonna go to hell for being liars and deceivers.</blockquote>

== Screenshot Gallery ==

[[File:Religiflerf Larry David Freeman.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Douglas Otts flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|250px]]
[[File:Thangpong P Lam flat earth gospel.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Divinity_damning_to_hell_2025-02-14.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:David_Viri_damning_to_hell_2025-03-21.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:AndyLunaOficial_damning_to_hell_2025-01-09.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Alan_Murdoch_2025-04-04.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Justin Brandt’s corrupted flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jack Sylvestre's flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:David Tapaje's Flerf Gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jerry's corrupted flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Eftupworlds flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Lori Dumelie Cooleys flerf gospel.png|thumb|left]]
[[File:Flat Earth Researchs flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|(“It says ‘and Gwwad made the firmament …’”) (“My mom’s been to prison…”)]]

<hr style="clear:both">

= See Also =
* [[Flerf threats]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Bad faith showcase]]
[[Category:Lists]]

File:Flat Earth Researchs flerf gospel.jpeg

2026-04-06T15:27:47Z

PeterMarkley: A bold video caption from Facebook account “Flat Earth Research”<ref>https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CDYMPGxb2/</ref> declaring a corrupted gospel.

== Summary ==
A bold video caption from Facebook account “Flat Earth Research”<ref>https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CDYMPGxb2/</ref> declaring a [[Corrupted flerf gospel|corrupted gospel]].

Corrupted flerf gospel

2026-04-03T20:37:32Z

PeterMarkley: Add screenshot example

This page is a list of examples where [[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] treat their belief in a flat earth as a requirement for salvation, suggesting that all globers will go to hell.

= Contradicting the Bible =

When flerfs do this, they are going against the Bible and in fact bringing a curse on themselves:<blockquote>I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, '''''let him be accursed.''''' As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, '''''let him be accursed.'''''Galatians 1:6-9 (ESV, emphasis added)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Galatians+1:6/</ref></blockquote>

The gospel that Paul refers to makes no reference to cosmology or shape of earth:<blockquote>But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”<ref>Quoted from [https://www.esv.org/Deuteronomy%2030:14/ Deuteronomy 30:14]</ref> (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Romans 10:8-9 (ESV)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Romans+10:8/</ref></blockquote>

= List of Examples =

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[Dean Odle]] said:<blockquote>If God said he set the world upon pillars and you say it's spinning and tilted and wobbling and flying, you're the fool and I'm going to promise you on Judgment Day you are going to be judged a fool, who setteth (?) not the counsel of God for your own belief system.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxxac09IZ_wWcQgn3H-YGi5C7IYOBZblJm</ref></blockquote>

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[King Nico]] tried to apply Matthew 24:24 to [[The Final Experiment]], implying that "the elect" refers to [[:Category:Religiflerfs|flerfs]].<ref>https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxA3fTzslhWc2XRlVgwL5RrIBr4CYlG4MS</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/p_FpG_1h6zg</ref> In reality this term means those whom God favors,<ref>https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/elect-election.html</ref> i.e. believers in Christ.

* On Feb 22, 2025 on [[Modern-Day Debate]], [[Nathan Thompson]] referred to his proselytizing of flat earth as “sharing the good news,”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxG-ws_d74iwFxiPjX03_wjtpj2e-Vk87e</ref> a phrase that among Christians usually refers to the gospel.

* On Apr 11, 2025 [[Dave Weiss]] explicitly told someone globers are not Christians:
<blockquote>
'''Interviewer:''' Just because you’re a Christian and believe in the Bible doesn’t mean you’re a flat-earther and vice versa.
'''Dave:''' Well no, the thing is: if you’re a Christian and you’re not a flat-earther, you’re a church-ian. You’re not a Christian. You’re just someone that follows the stuff in the church.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxgEpbT5KrCv-scaGlcslHieB1NBKvnVdU</ref>
</blockquote>

* On Apr 16, 2025 in a debate with Will Duffy [[Kingdom in Context|Sean Griffin]] repeatedly compared flat earth to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection of Christ]]:
<blockquote>We saw the absolute, contextual application of the firmament put onscreen; we saw the definitions of it put onscreen; we saw historical testimony put onscreen; and we saw Pastor Will Duffy deny all of it, saying it doesn’t exist because “It’s never been seen.” ‘Cause he doesn’t have the proof he needs to see it. With that logic, he doesn’t believe in the Resurrection of Christ or that believers in the audience will be resurrected to eternal life, which is the promise of the covenant that Christ is the firstfruits of.<ref>This is a reference to 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.</ref><ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxfqyDqm-jFA3Yth0wqH8CJqBdqAN_6qb</ref></blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''Moderator:''' (Reading a superchat from David English) Sean, what physical evidence would convince you that the globe model is true?
'''Sean:''' There’s always one of these questions. Not much, to be honest, because the Scriptures plainly teach a firm enclosed reality. So that’s like asking “How many times does a medical doctor have to tell me that there’s no resurrection before I disbelieve Christ’s resurrection?”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxbpO9f3vMZs-S-3ROZ-4oAkwqdzFTNtBr</ref>
</blockquote>

* On May 8, 2025 [[Kaypodgee]] posted a video calling belief in space a “faith problem:”<ref>https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTjfwBwK3/</ref><ref>She reposted the TikTok video on Facebook twice: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/168SN3FLCz/?mibextid=wwXIfr https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1E9Wvk64Ft/?mibextid=wwXIfr</ref>
<blockquote>Being a Christian that believes that we live on a spinning ball that's flying through space is a faith problem. … Righteousness is assigned based on faith in God’s word. … I’m not going to sugarcoat it: every single lukewarm openly tries to deny the semi-flat realm that God put us in; and consistently the people that are so clearly close to God just casually accept that, yes, we live in a semi-flat realm, because God said so. … Jesus is the word of God made flesh. Where does your faith stand if you think you’re going to refute what God said, with the word of a group of Scientology [sic] cult members…? You can’t pick and choose what you’re going to refute and what you’re going to believe in the Bible, because where does that end? Like, at what point does that come to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection]], and then you throw the whole thing away? … Oftentimes people think that the only issue when it comes to believing is believing that Jesus died on the Cross and rose and defeated our sins, and like that that’s our salvation. While that is the most important one for sure, you need to believe every word that God says to be considered righteous. So if you only believe in the one part that your pastor told you is essential, which obviously it is, but you don’t believe really anything else…? That just doesn’t sit right with me.</blockquote>

* Around July 5, 2025 [[Kyle Adams]] posted a YouTube Short<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/oY3pinLlL-w</ref> interviewing a child about [https://youtu.be/QV7F9-KJ80k their involvement in promoting flat earth.] At the end of the Short he said:
<blockquote>I think it’s really admirable to stand up for what you believe in. It’s kind of the whole thing of “I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,”<ref>Quoted from Romans 1:16</ref> right? So no matter what people might say in the future, it’s right there in the Bible.</blockquote>

* On March 29, 2026 during a "sermon" at Fire & Grace Church [[Dean Odle]] said:<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxumJjs3-_C5beTWwaQsp-sfMO5TCRD2S1</ref>
<blockquote>… Every one of them astronauts<ref>This could have referred to all astronauts generally, or to the crew of [[Wikipedia:Artemis II|Artemis II]] which launched 3 days later.</ref> are gonna go to hell for being liars and deceivers.</blockquote>

== Screenshot Gallery ==

[[File:Religiflerf Larry David Freeman.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Douglas Otts flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|250px]]
[[File:Thangpong P Lam flat earth gospel.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Divinity_damning_to_hell_2025-02-14.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:David_Viri_damning_to_hell_2025-03-21.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:AndyLunaOficial_damning_to_hell_2025-01-09.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Alan_Murdoch_2025-04-04.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Justin Brandt’s corrupted flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jack Sylvestre's flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:David Tapaje's Flerf Gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jerry's corrupted flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Eftupworlds flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Lori Dumelie Cooleys flerf gospel.png|thumb|left]]

<hr style="clear:both">

= See Also =
* [[Flerf threats]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Bad faith showcase]]
[[Category:Lists]]

File:Lori Dumelie Cooleys flerf gospel.png

2026-04-03T20:36:55Z

PeterMarkley: A flerf on Facebook named Lori Dumelie Cooley giving their flerf gospel.

== Summary ==
A flerf on Facebook named Lori Dumelie Cooley giving their [[Corrupted flerf gospel|flerf gospel]].

Corrupted flerf gospel

2026-04-03T19:44:04Z

PeterMarkley: Add Dean Odle quote from 3/29/2026

This page is a list of examples where [[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] treat their belief in a flat earth as a requirement for salvation, suggesting that all globers will go to hell.

= Contradicting the Bible =

When flerfs do this, they are going against the Bible and in fact bringing a curse on themselves:<blockquote>I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, '''''let him be accursed.''''' As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, '''''let him be accursed.'''''Galatians 1:6-9 (ESV, emphasis added)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Galatians+1:6/</ref></blockquote>

The gospel that Paul refers to makes no reference to cosmology or shape of earth:<blockquote>But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”<ref>Quoted from [https://www.esv.org/Deuteronomy%2030:14/ Deuteronomy 30:14]</ref> (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Romans 10:8-9 (ESV)<ref>https://www.esv.org/Romans+10:8/</ref></blockquote>

= List of Examples =

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[Dean Odle]] said:<blockquote>If God said he set the world upon pillars and you say it's spinning and tilted and wobbling and flying, you're the fool and I'm going to promise you on Judgment Day you are going to be judged a fool, who setteth (?) not the counsel of God for your own belief system.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxxac09IZ_wWcQgn3H-YGi5C7IYOBZblJm</ref></blockquote>

* On Dec 30, 2024 [[King Nico]] tried to apply Matthew 24:24 to [[The Final Experiment]], implying that "the elect" refers to [[:Category:Religiflerfs|flerfs]].<ref>https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxA3fTzslhWc2XRlVgwL5RrIBr4CYlG4MS</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/p_FpG_1h6zg</ref> In reality this term means those whom God favors,<ref>https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/elect-election.html</ref> i.e. believers in Christ.

* On Feb 22, 2025 on [[Modern-Day Debate]], [[Nathan Thompson]] referred to his proselytizing of flat earth as “sharing the good news,”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxG-ws_d74iwFxiPjX03_wjtpj2e-Vk87e</ref> a phrase that among Christians usually refers to the gospel.

* On Apr 11, 2025 [[Dave Weiss]] explicitly told someone globers are not Christians:
<blockquote>
'''Interviewer:''' Just because you’re a Christian and believe in the Bible doesn’t mean you’re a flat-earther and vice versa.
'''Dave:''' Well no, the thing is: if you’re a Christian and you’re not a flat-earther, you’re a church-ian. You’re not a Christian. You’re just someone that follows the stuff in the church.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxgEpbT5KrCv-scaGlcslHieB1NBKvnVdU</ref>
</blockquote>

* On Apr 16, 2025 in a debate with Will Duffy [[Kingdom in Context|Sean Griffin]] repeatedly compared flat earth to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection of Christ]]:
<blockquote>We saw the absolute, contextual application of the firmament put onscreen; we saw the definitions of it put onscreen; we saw historical testimony put onscreen; and we saw Pastor Will Duffy deny all of it, saying it doesn’t exist because “It’s never been seen.” ‘Cause he doesn’t have the proof he needs to see it. With that logic, he doesn’t believe in the Resurrection of Christ or that believers in the audience will be resurrected to eternal life, which is the promise of the covenant that Christ is the firstfruits of.<ref>This is a reference to 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.</ref><ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxfqyDqm-jFA3Yth0wqH8CJqBdqAN_6qb</ref></blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''Moderator:''' (Reading a superchat from David English) Sean, what physical evidence would convince you that the globe model is true?
'''Sean:''' There’s always one of these questions. Not much, to be honest, because the Scriptures plainly teach a firm enclosed reality. So that’s like asking “How many times does a medical doctor have to tell me that there’s no resurrection before I disbelieve Christ’s resurrection?”<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxbpO9f3vMZs-S-3ROZ-4oAkwqdzFTNtBr</ref>
</blockquote>

* On May 8, 2025 [[Kaypodgee]] posted a video calling belief in space a “faith problem:”<ref>https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTjfwBwK3/</ref><ref>She reposted the TikTok video on Facebook twice: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/168SN3FLCz/?mibextid=wwXIfr https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1E9Wvk64Ft/?mibextid=wwXIfr</ref>
<blockquote>Being a Christian that believes that we live on a spinning ball that's flying through space is a faith problem. … Righteousness is assigned based on faith in God’s word. … I’m not going to sugarcoat it: every single lukewarm openly tries to deny the semi-flat realm that God put us in; and consistently the people that are so clearly close to God just casually accept that, yes, we live in a semi-flat realm, because God said so. … Jesus is the word of God made flesh. Where does your faith stand if you think you’re going to refute what God said, with the word of a group of Scientology [sic] cult members…? You can’t pick and choose what you’re going to refute and what you’re going to believe in the Bible, because where does that end? Like, at what point does that come to the [[Wikipedia:Resurrection of Jesus|Resurrection]], and then you throw the whole thing away? … Oftentimes people think that the only issue when it comes to believing is believing that Jesus died on the Cross and rose and defeated our sins, and like that that’s our salvation. While that is the most important one for sure, you need to believe every word that God says to be considered righteous. So if you only believe in the one part that your pastor told you is essential, which obviously it is, but you don’t believe really anything else…? That just doesn’t sit right with me.</blockquote>

* Around July 5, 2025 [[Kyle Adams]] posted a YouTube Short<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/oY3pinLlL-w</ref> interviewing a child about [https://youtu.be/QV7F9-KJ80k their involvement in promoting flat earth.] At the end of the Short he said:
<blockquote>I think it’s really admirable to stand up for what you believe in. It’s kind of the whole thing of “I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,”<ref>Quoted from Romans 1:16</ref> right? So no matter what people might say in the future, it’s right there in the Bible.</blockquote>

* On March 29, 2026 during a "sermon" at Fire & Grace Church [[Dean Odle]] said:<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxumJjs3-_C5beTWwaQsp-sfMO5TCRD2S1</ref>
<blockquote>… Every one of them astronauts<ref>This could have referred to all astronauts generally, or to the crew of [[Wikipedia:Artemis II|Artemis II]] which launched 3 days later.</ref> are gonna go to hell for being liars and deceivers.</blockquote>

== Screenshot Gallery ==

[[File:Religiflerf Larry David Freeman.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Douglas Otts flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|250px]]
[[File:Thangpong P Lam flat earth gospel.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Divinity_damning_to_hell_2025-02-14.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:David_Viri_damning_to_hell_2025-03-21.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:AndyLunaOficial_damning_to_hell_2025-01-09.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Alan_Murdoch_2025-04-04.png|thumb|left|400px]]
[[File:Justin Brandt’s corrupted flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jack Sylvestre's flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:David Tapaje's Flerf Gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Jerry's corrupted flerf gospel.jpg|thumb|left]]
[[File:Eftupworlds flerf gospel.jpeg|thumb|left]]

<hr style="clear:both">

= See Also =
* [[Flerf threats]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Bad faith showcase]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Escapees

2026-03-19T06:41:30Z

PeterMarkley: Add HeterodoxAgnostic

Here is the list of former flerfs. The flat earthers that escaped the cult.

Although existing pages for ex-flerfs belong in (and will therefore appear on) the [[:Category:Ex-flerfs]] page, this page includes items with no page. For that reason, '''this is meant to be the primary list''' on this wiki site.

'''This is a work in progress.''' If you are an escapee and want to be added to the WWF (We Were Flat) roles, you are welcome to create an account and add yourself. Otherwise, email [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] and he will add you to the list.

= List =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Escapees
|-
! Name !! Due to [[The Final Experiment|TFE]]? !! Date !! Note
|-
| [[710_Extracts]]<ref>https://www.youtube.com/@710_extracts6</ref> || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Amorel]] || Yes || 2024 ||
|-
| [[Austin Thompson]] || Not quite || 2024 ||
|-
| [[awildsamappears]]<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/Tg9JHhpiRKI?t=8848</ref><ref>https://www.tiktok.com/@awildsamappears</ref> || || ||
|-
| [[BennyBoy]] || || 2026 ||
|-
| [[Clear Cognition]] || || ||
|-
| [[daniel.be.]] <ref>https://youtube.com/watch?v=PJ2kli-ABNM&lc=UgxFxkfGOK0eWZueCat4AaABAg</ref> || || ||
|-
| [[David Sanchez]] || || ||
|-
| [[DirtCuz]]<ref>https://www.tiktok.com/@dirt.cuz.twenty.t</ref> || || 2026 ||
|-
| [[DonnaAnne Truth]] <ref>https://www.youtube.com/@donnaannetruth9722</ref> || || ||
|-
| <del>[[Don't Follow Crumb]]</del> || Yes || 2025 || Went back to flat earth as of April 2025
|-
| [[Douglas Falk]] || || ||
|-
| [[Dylan_1884]] || Yes || 2025 || Fan of [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]]
|-
| [[Elpapodeflores7683]] || Yes || 2025 || Fan of [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]]
|-
| [[Freedominchrist23]]<ref>https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxldRb58-vphap-35qp3eX7qmKSqS7Bq6L</ref> || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[FreedomParadox]] || Yes || 2025 || Fan of [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]]
|-
| [https://youtube.com/@heterodoxagnostic8070 HeterodoxAgnostic8070] (aka “Zetetik”)<ref>https://youtube.com/watch?v=DiMnB7XbTs8&lc=UgxSS34t2qi0jFqFKTN4AaABAg</ref> || No || 2025 ||
|-
| [https://youtube.com/@imenemy608 ImEnemy608]<ref>https://youtube.com/watch?v=r-lpPfXkU74&lc=UgxERPFuqOTJWCxD_j54AaABAg</ref> || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[IMTHE]] || || ||
|-
| [https://x.com/theogjasonadams Jason Adams] <ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/YZ9ExML9ZVs</ref> || || ||
|-
| [[Jeran Campanella]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Jose JG Gonzalez]] || || ||
|-
| [[Joseph Ruggia]] || || ||
|-
| [[Joshua Stewart]] || || 2025 ||
|-
| KO || Yes || 2025 || ''requested anonymity''
|-
| [[Kole Knack-Broos]] || || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Landry]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Lisbeth Acosta]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Maxim Alexander]] || || ||
|-
| MO || Yes || 2025 || ''requested anonymity''
|-
| [[Mike Check 1two]] || || 2022 ||
|-
| [[Nick Havok]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Nicki Green]] || || 2026 ||
|-
| [[Patricia Steere]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Paul On The Plane]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[PhoenixOracle]] || || 2026 ||
|-
| [[PJCNet]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Rachie 00000]] || || ||
|-
| [[Ranty]] || || 2022 ||
|-
| [[Celebrate Truth|Robbie Davidson]] || Yes || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Rose777]] || || 2025 ||
|-
| [[Ryan Hiser]] || || ||
|-
| [[Sean G]] || || ||
|-
| [[SeekTruth SpeakTruth]] || || ||
|-
| [[ShiftyEyes Shady]] || Yes || 2024 ||
|-
| [[Space Pope]] || || ||
|-
| [[The Obsessed Patriot]] || Yes || ||
|-
| [[Tiger Dan]] || || ||
|-
| [[Timothyhoneycutt3684]] || Yes || 2025 || Fan of [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]]
|-
|}

= Screenshot Gallery =
[[File:DonnaAnneTruth-escapee.png]]

[[File:TheObsessedPatriot_escape_message.jpg]]

[[File:Maxim Alexander Ex Flerf.jpg|400px]]

[[File:Joseph_Ruggia_escapee.jpg|400px]]

[[File:Dylan 1884 Ex flerf.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:FreedomParadox ex flerf.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:Elpapodeflores7683 ex flerf.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:Daniel be ex flerf.jpg|400px]]

[[File:Timothyhoneycutt Ex Flerf.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:ImEnemy608 Escapee.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:Freedominchrist23 Escapee.jpeg|400px]]

[[File:Patricia Steere ex-flerf.jpeg|400px]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Lists]]

Category:Flerf history

2026-03-11T16:12:39Z

PeterMarkley: Add see also

These are pages documenting the history of modern flat earthers.

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Globe history]]

[[Category:Categories]]

Category:Globe history

2026-03-11T16:11:31Z

PeterMarkley: Create page

These are pages concerning the history of real scientific knowledge about the globe.

= See Also =
* [[:Category:Flerf history]]

[[Category:Categories]]

Aristotle's globe arguments

2026-03-11T16:09:33Z

PeterMarkley: Add category

In his work ''On the Heavens'', Aristotle made several arguments for a spherical earth.<ref>Aristotle (350 BC) ''On the Heavens'', Book II Part 14; translated by J. L. Stocks (1922) https://jcblackmon.com/excerpt-aristotles-de-caelo/</ref>

== Argument from gravity ==

Aristotle called gravity a “centripetal impulse”, i.e. movement that converges toward a central point rather than in parallel lines.

He explicitly reasoned that this would mean earth is a sphere:
<blockquote>
… Heavy bodies moving towards the earth do not parallel but so as to make equal angles, and thus to a single centre, that of the earth.

…

Its shape must necessarily be spherical. For every portion of earth has weight until it reaches the centre, and the jostling of parts greater and smaller would bring about not a waved surface, but rather compression and convergence of part and part until the centre is reached. … For if an equal amount is added on every side the extremity of the mass will be everywhere equidistant from its centre, i.e. the figure will be spherical. … The greater quantity must prevail until the body’s centre occupies the centre. For that is the goal of its impulse. Now it makes no difference whether we apply this to a clod or common fragment of earth or to the earth as a whole. The fact indicated does not depend upon degrees of size but applies universally to everything that has the centripetal impulse.

…

But the spherical shape, necessitated by this argument, follows also from the fact that the motions of heavy bodies always make equal angles, and are not parallel. This would be the natural form of movement towards what is naturally spherical.
</blockquote>

== Argument from lunar eclipses ==

<blockquote>
But the spherical shape, necessitated by this argument, follows also from the fact that the motions of heavy bodies always make equal angles, and are not parallel.

…

The evidence of the senses further corroborates this. How else would eclipses of the moon show segments shaped as we see them? As it is, the shapes which the moon itself each month shows are of every kind straight, gibbous, and concave-but in eclipses the outline is always curved: and, since it is the interposition of the earth that makes the eclipse, the form of this line will be caused by the form of the earth’s surface, which is therefore spherical.
</blockquote>

== Argument from celestial latitude ==

<blockquote>
Again, our observations of the stars make it evident, not only that the earth is circular, but also that it is a circle of no great size. For quite a small change of position to south or north causes a manifest alteration of the horizon. There is much change, I mean, in the stars which are overhead, and the stars seen are different, as one moves northward or southward. Indeed there are some stars seen in Egypt and in the neighbourhood of Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions; and stars, which in the north are never beyond the range of observation, in those regions rise and set. All of which goes to show not only that the earth is circular in shape, but also that it is a sphere of no great size: for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent.
</blockquote>

= Misattributed Pliny the Elder quote =
There is an often-repeated misconception that one of Aristotle’s arguments was ships on the horizon. In reality this argument was given by Pliny the Elder:<ref>Pliny the Elder (AD 77) ''Natural History,'' Book 2 §§ 163-165; translated by H. Rackham (1952) https://www.attalus.org/translate/pliny_hn2b.html</ref>

<blockquote>
The conformation of the waters also rises in a curve. … The same cause explains why the land is not visible from the deck of a ship when in sight from the masthead; and why as a vessel passes far into the distance, if some shining object is tied to the top of the mast it appears slowly to sink and finally it is hidden from sight.
</blockquote>

This is immediately followed by an argument that parallels Aristotle, but applied to why oceans don’t fall off the globe:
<blockquote>
Lastly, what other conformation could have caused the ocean, which we acknowledge to be at the extreme outside, to cohere and not fall away, if there is no boundary beyond to enclose it? The very question as to how, although the sea is globular in shape, its edge does not fall away, itself ranks with the marvellous. On the other side the Greek investigators, greatly to their delight and to their glory, prove by subtle mathematical reasoning that it cannot possibly be the case that the seas are really flat and have the shape that they appear to have. For, they argue, while it is the case that water travels downward from an elevation, and this is its admitted nature, and nobody doubts that the water on any coast has reached the farthest point allowed by the slope of the earth, it is manifest beyond doubt that the lower an object is the nearer it is to the centre of the earth, and that all the lines drawn from the centre to the nearest bodies of water are shorter than those drawn from the edge of these waters to the farthest point in the sea: it therefore follows that all the water from every direction converges towards the centre, this pressure inward being the cause of its not falling off.
</blockquote>

= See Also =
* [[Flat earth taught in schools]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Globe history]]

Aristotle's globe arguments

2026-03-11T16:07:10Z

PeterMarkley: Add see also

Flat earth taught in schools

2026-03-11T16:06:21Z

PeterMarkley: Add see also

Many flerfs believe that American schools once taught flat earth, and then within living memory they changed to teach the globe.

Far from having any credible support, this claim sharply contradicts the united witness of history. Western civilization has known the earth was a globe [[Wikipedia:Spherical_Earth#History_of_concept_and_measurement|since ancient times]], and no accredited American school has ever denied the globe in its curriculum.

= Ruth Heath Video =
[[File:DITRH Ruth Heath.jpeg|right|thumb|[[Dave Weiss]] exploiting Ruth Heath to spread his lies.]]

This lie seems to have been contrived by [[Dave Weiss]]. There is a video of him exploiting an elderly woman to repeat it on camera, as if she is an eyewitness recalling these events.<ref>https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT2MHB6H7/</ref><ref>https://x.com/kaizer4o/status/1565982478577410048</ref><ref>https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3792160121101118&id=100009215025623</ref>

The woman’s name was Ruth Heath. It is not known whether:
* she was coached by Weiss;
* she is relating a corrupted memory of the well-documented [[Wikipedia:Myth of the flat Earth|myth about when the globe was discovered]], which was taught incorrectly in American schools and textbooks even into the 21st century; or
* she is exhibiting some other type of [[Wikipedia:Confabulation|confabulation]] or [[Wikipedia:Dementia|dementia]].

In any of the above cases, Dave Weiss using her for content could be considered a type of [[Wikipedia:Elder abuse|elder abuse]].

= See Also =
* [[Aristotle's globe arguments]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]

Aristotle's globe arguments

2026-03-11T16:03:41Z

PeterMarkley: Fix typo

Aristotle's globe arguments

2026-03-11T16:02:21Z

PeterMarkley: Create page

In his work ''On the Heavens'', Aristotle made several arguments for a spherical earth.<ref>Aristotle (350 BC) ''On the Heavens'', Book II Part 14; translated by J. L. Stocks (1922) https://jcblackmon.com/excerpt-aristotles-de-caelo/</ref>

== Argument from gravity ==

Aristotle called gravity a “centripetal impulse”, i.e. movement that converges toward a central point rather than in parallel lines.

He explicitly reasoned that this would mean earth is a sphere:
<blockquote>
… Heavy bodies moving towards the earth do not parallel but so as to make equal angles, and thus to a single centre, that of the earth.

…

Its shape must necessarily be spherical. For every portion of earth has weight until it reaches the centre, and the jostling of parts greater and smaller would bring about not a waved surface, but rather compression and convergence of part and part until the centre is reached. … For if an equal amount is added on every side the extremity of the mass will be everywhere equidistant from its centre, i.e. the figure will be spherical. … The greater quantity must prevail until the body’s centre occupies the centre. For that is the goal of its impulse. Now it makes no difference whether we apply this to a clod or common fragment of earth or to the earth as a whole. The fact indicated does not depend upon degrees of size but applies universally to everything that has the centripetal impulse.

…

But the spherical shape, necessitated by this argument, follows also from the fact that the motions of heavy bodies always make equal angles, and are not parallel. This would be the natural form of movement towards what is naturally spherical.
</blockquote>

== Argument from lunar eclipses ==

<blockquote>
But the spherical shape, necessitated by this argument, follows also from the fact that the motions of heavy bodies always make equal angles, and are not parallel.

…

The evidence of the senses further corroborates this. How else would eclipses of the moon show segments shaped as we see them? As it is, the shapes which the moon itself each month shows are of every kind straight, gibbous, and concave-but in eclipses the outline is always curved: and, since it is the interposition of the earth that makes the eclipse, the form of this line will be caused by the form of the earth’s surface, which is therefore spherical.
</blockquote>

== Argument from celestial latitude ==

<blockquote>
Again, our observations of the stars make it evident, not only that the earth is circular, but also that it is a circle of no great size. For quite a small change of position to south or north causes a manifest alteration of the horizon. There is much change, I mean, in the stars which are overhead, and the stars seen are different, as one moves northward or southward. Indeed there are some stars seen in Egypt and in the neighbourhood of Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions; and stars, which in the north are never beyond the range of observation, in those regions rise and set. All of which goes to show not only that the earth is circular in shape, but also that it is a sphere of no great size: for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent.
</blockquote>

= Misattributed Pliny the Elder quote =
There is an often-repeated misconception that one of Aristotle’s arguments was ships on the horizon. In reality this argument was given by Pliny the Elder:<ref>Pliny the Elder (AD 77) ''Natural History,'' Book 2 §§ 162-165; translated by H. Rackham (1952) https://www.attalus.org/translate/pliny_hn2b.html</ref>

<blockquote>
The conformation of the waters also rises in a curve. … The same cause explains why the land is not visible from the deck of a ship when in sight from the masthead; and why as a vessel passes far into the distance, if some shining object is tied to the top of the mast it appears slowly to sink and finally it is hidden from sight.
</blockquote>

This is immediately followed by an argument that parallels Aristotle, but applied to why oceans don’t fall off the globe:
<blockquote>
Lastly, what other conformation could have caused the ocean, which we acknowledge to be at the extreme outside, to cohere and not fall away, if there is no boundary beyond to enclose it? The very question as to how, although the sea is globular in shape, its edge does not fall away, itself ranks with the marvellous. On the other side the Greek investigators, greatly to their delight and to their glory, prove by subtle mathematical reasoning that it cannot possibly be the case that the seas are really flat and have the shape that they appear to have. For, they argue, while it is the case that water travels downward from an elevation, and this is its admitted nature, and nobody doubts that the water on any coast has reached the farthest point allowed by the slope of the earth, it is manifest beyond doubt that the lower an object is the nearer it is to the centre of the earth, and that all the lines drawn from the centre to the nearest bodies of water are shorter than those drawn from the edge of these waters to the farthest point in the sea: it therefore follows that all the water from every direction converges towards the centre, this pressure inward being the cause of its not falling off.
</blockquote>

= References =
<references/>

Flatzoid

2026-02-26T16:50:19Z

PeterMarkley: Fix someone’s typo

{{Infobox
|image=File:Flatzoid.jpg
|realName=Keith Reynolds
|alias=Flatzoid, Fkatzoid, Fitzoid, Kifazoid, Failzoid, Creality, Ratzoid, Fapzoid, Wankzoid
|location=South Africa
|platform=[https://www.youtube.com/@CrealityPodcast YouTube]
|papa=[[Nathan Oakley]] (prior to a [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf-on-flerf]])|antisemite=Unconfirmed
|religiflerf=Yes. He is so religious, he had a [https://youtu.be/H1sLjp6I6DQ meltdown] because he watched porn.
|drinksUrine=Unconfirmed
|adoptedBy=[[User:Graugnarz|Graugnarz]]}}

For anyone interested in clips of Flatzoid's derp,
[https://www.youtube.com/@JackoaTrades Jack of all Trades] and
[https://www.youtube.com/@Eduardo_Igirisu Eduardo Igirisu] have a collection.

= Known Accounts =
* [https://www.youtube.com/@CrealityPodcast Creality Jesus Saves]
* [https://www.youtube.com/@KifazoidDesigns His Kingdom Is Flat]
* [https://www.tiktok.com/@flatzoids.perspective @flatzoids.perspective]

== YouTube Account History ==
* Flatzoid FE
* Flatzoids Perspective
* Creality
* Creality Jesus Saves

= Other Info =
* Keith Reynolds, known online as Flatzoid, is a South African flat Earth proponent.
* He has engaged in debates with fellow flat Earther Nathan Oakley, leading to a [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf-on-flerf]] spat.
* He was associated with the [[“Flatzoid’s Kids” Rumor]], which he has helped start and perpetuate.
* While trying to deface this very web site, Flatzoid leaked his IP address. <ref>[https://www.flerf.info/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=2338&oldid=2337 Fkatzoid's slanderous edit]</ref> <ref name="vandalzoid">[https://youtu.be/qSlnZD3ji0g?t=2067 34:27 Flatzoid vandalizing the website, <q>Mctoons Flerf Wiki Obsession</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
* He rebranded his YouTube channel to [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Creality Creality] on 5th April 2025
* He renamed the channel again to "Creality Jesus Saves" on 11th April 2025
* Winner of the 2025 Top left award <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/uiE2AhfdIkk Top Left 2025 Awards]</ref>
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-avAKJfS8s '''Fkatz Where Have I Heard This Before''']: Short clip showing Flatzoid being out of line with some family members.
* In his stream [https://youtu.be/H1sLjp6I6DQ <q>Forgiveness in Jesus</q>] from November 23 2025, he has a meltdown about having watched porn.





= Notable Quotes & Incidents =
== Going Full Oakley ==
During a September 2025 livestream Flatzoid stepped off camera and was heard shouting abusively,<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwVzmN4Olxk</ref>
<ref>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YPS50NVAL70</ref>
<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/KEcGWBFNKaM</ref>
<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/pSLYPqi7yT4</ref> presumably to his family.

Approximate transcription (mostly in [[Wikipedia:Afrikaans|Afrikaans]]):
<blockquote>Nee nee wat de hel gaan aan, wat de fok—stop! Hou op om hierdie kak … (Ek gee nie meer 'n fokken fok om nie.)</blockquote>

English translation:
<blockquote>No No what the hell is going on, what the fuck—stop! Stop doing this shit [?] … (I don't give a fucking fuck anymore.)</blockquote>

== Being obsessed ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why do we observe such a fervent Obsession of globe believers who despite dismissing the notion of a flat Earth as ridiculous and unscientific, seem unable to just let it rest?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/qBf4pnYvnT0?t=21 00:21 <q>What's REALLY Behind the FLAT EARTH Obsession?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But the ironic thing is they claim flat earth is not important. Flat earth is dumb. But yet their whole career is built on flat earth, right?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=924 15:24 Flatzoid claiming that if flat earth is dumb, they shouldn't be making videos about it, while making videos about the globe that he thinks is dumb. <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Flatzoid calling people obsessed for not letting the flat earth rest, while he keeps making videos about the globe, which he thinks to be ridiculous and unscientific. Why is he so obsessed with the globe? He is particularly obsessed with TFE as he made 53 live streams and 24 videos about TFE as of 7 June 2025.

He most likely simply wants people to stop explaining to him why he is wrong and just accept the nonsense he is telling everyone. Many of his nonsense claims are explained below.

== Union Glacier Location ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I do think that they're being duped to think they're at Antarctica. I don't think Union Glacier is really at Antarctica. I think that's at a different location and it's placed as Antarctica.<ref>[https://youtu.be/3Z9NRoFpDco?t=10696 2:58:16, <q>TFE Is not faking anything?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

== Where is the South Pole? ==
<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' Where is the South Pole?

'''Flatzoid:''' It's a ceremonial Place.

'''Will Duffy:''' And where is it?

'''Flatzoid:''' At the ceremonial South Pole place, where they put the pole up.
<ref name="flatzoid south pole">[https://youtu.be/mB5cNbQj3fc?t=315 5:15, <q>Deceptive Duffy show up</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

== Claiming that people defending themselves when accused of lying means that they are guilty ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' See, that's the one thing that I've realized, especially with this um topic. If you call out deception, which I do a lot, the fact that they come and they try and, uh how can I say, defend it towards me shows that they're guilty because one thing I've realized through years is, if someone is not feeling guilty about things they just ah leave it and they go on, or they make one video just you know um saying, okay I respond to it and they go on with their lives. These guys make it them life's mission to try and discredit me to try and defend saying they're not deceptive.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=2756 45:56, <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>
That's rich coming from someone who made it his mission to discredit Will Duffy and the other TFE participants.

==Flatzoid and his panel discussing the South Pole ==
<blockquote>
'''David Sanch:''' So, you know they have the South Pole station and they claim that that place was found because someone came from like the north of Antarctica and went South following the Stars until they got to that place, and then someone from the south of Antarctica went like, also straight to that place, but like I don't know about the exact Direction, but they're saying that they came from two opposite sides of Antarctica. They followed the sky and they met in one geographic location where all the stars were circling around one point in the sky.

'''Flatzoid:''' Now what happened is the one person went and he placed a tent there then later on another person came and found the tent there and they declared it as the geographic South Pole.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/MeJmAv-Uv_Q?t=5673 1:34:33 Flatzoid and his panel talking about the South Pole, <q>Let's have a talk!</q> (March 16) by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For a proper explanation about how the South Pole was discovered Will Duffy made a great video explaining it.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FblzXj3q4s <q>THE FINAL EXPERIMENTS - The South Pole</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Basically both Amundsen's and Scott's teams started from two different location and used the sun to navigate, to find the South Pole. Both teams eventually reached the same location on that large continent of Antarctica, because unlike flerfs, they know how to navigate. Amundsen didn't just randomly pick a place, like Flatzoid is implying, they traveled until they reached the location where the sun doesn't change its elevation during a day, which is at the South pole as the globe predicts. Scott did the same thing and found Amundsen's tent at that location.

== Space Pen ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I just want to point out guys if this space pen is such a thing why I don't get why you have to spend millions of dollars to produce a space pen when you can literally just take a pencil?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2353 39:13 Flatzoid talking about space pen, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Sciencealert explains the issues with pencils in space.

<blockquote>
But why such a big brouhaha in the first place?

As it turns out, there are certain things that you don't want floating around in space. Pencil detritus is one of them. The lead could snap off, which presents a hazard; but neither do you want flammable wood shavings floating loose in a spacecraft, or the microscopic particles of electrically conductive graphite that shed from a pencil as it writes.

Any minute particles that can get lodged in delicate machinery are a hazard in space, and the particles that come off pencils were cause for significant concern. Fire, in particular, is a serious safety issue in spacecraft, and one NASA doesn't treat lightly after a fire killed all three members of the Apollo 1 mission in 1967.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.sciencealert.com/why-wouldnt-nasa-want-to-use-pencils-in-space-heres-the-true-story <q>Why Wouldn't NASA Want to Use Pencils in Space? Here's The True Story</q> by Sciencealert]</ref>

== Greek Matrix ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The um Greeks were attempting to do a analog version of the Matrix if you would like to put it that way, because they were making people live in a, trying to see in a paradigm that goes against reality, and it's all just based on ones and zeros. It's based on a binary system it's based on maths, guys.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=365 6:05 Analog Matrix, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Diameter and circumference ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Diameter is the circumference.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=10049 2:47:29 Diameter is circumference, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Terminator Line ==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I said there is no terminator line because I don't believe in the in the moon as a solid object.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=2309 38:29 Flatzoid not understanding terminator line, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Christmas ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Well, Brenda, do you know what, do you know what, do you know what Christmas means?

'''Brenda:''' It's mass at, at during that time. It's a Christ mass.

'''Flatzoid:''' It's massacres of Christians. It's celebrating the massacre of Christians.
</blockquote>

<ref>[https://youtu.be/L3FQH1IEm0o?t=1426 23:46 Flatzoid claiming Christmas is celebrating massacre of Christians, <q>Flat vs Globe Earth Debate: Uncovering the Truth Once and For All!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Changing moon angular size ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You can even change the angular size of the moon if you if you bend down, turn your back towards the moon, open your legs, and stick your head through your legs.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/O7IE8BKEhAY?t=2486 41:26 Flatzoid claiming you can change the angular size of the moon <q>Flat Earth Friday: Flat Earth vs Globe Earth Showdown LIVE Debate</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== There are more people in the Southern hemisphere ==

<blockquote>
'''Luca:''' Well, I guess um more people go to the north than the south. So I I guess that could be a reason why because well most of the population live in the north rather than the south.

'''Flatzoid (laughing):''' That's a lie. But okay.

'''Luca:''' What what do you mean?

'''Flatzoid:''' Brazil has more people in Brazil alone than the whole of Britain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oE9fKyHesUk?t=1272 21:12 Flatzoid thinking there are more people in the South, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Vert Review Prt 3</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

North America has about 388,235,791 people, <ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/northern-america-population/ <q>Northern America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
Central America has about 185,710,960 people,<ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/central-america-population/ <q>Central America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
while South America has 438,895,477 people.<ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/south-america-population/ <q>South America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
Both North America and Central America are in the northern hemisphere, so we add their populations to 388,235,791 + 185,710,960 = 573,946,751. Even when ignoring that part of South America is also North of the equator, there are more people North of the equator than south of it in America.

== Cardinal Directions are corners ==

<blockquote>
'''???:''' Does a sphere have corners?

'''Flatzoid:''' Nope, but a circle does. It's called cardinal directions.

'''Luca:''' What?

'''Flatzoid:''' North, East, South, West.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oE9fKyHesUk?t=3409 56:49 Cardinal directions are corners, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Vert Review Prt 3</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

==South Pole yard==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If the South Pole exists, then the Earth cannot be flat. Oh my word. Um, Roger. Do do you do you have a yard?

'''Roger:''' I do have a yard. Yes.

'''Flatzoid:''' Let's say you go to anywhere on the perimeter of that yard and you just paint one of those poles red in on your fence.

'''Roger:''' I don't have a fence.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. But let's say you hypothetically you got a a white fence around your yard.

'''Roger:''' Gotcha.

'''Flatzoid:''' And you just paint one of those poles red and call it the south pole. Does that mean it's not your yard anymore?

'''Roger:''' Wrong. It's my yard. Yes.

'''Flatzoid:''' Does that mean there's no north inside that perimeter of your yard?

'''Roger:''' I don't see how that would happen.

'''Flatzoid:''' Uh, exactly. Because the so-called South Pole is just a ceremonial place placed in the ground where tourists go.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/wi4RB6Runl4?t=2760 46:00 Flatzoid comparing the South Pole with a fence, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Flat Earth vs Globe | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Review</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Books written by man ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Um Sean Hawkins believes so-called scientist books. Correct?

'''PJ:''' Mhm.

'''Flatzoid:''' Did men write those science books?

'''PJ:''' Starting today.

'''Flatzoid:''' Oh, okay. Okay.

'''PJ:''' And they weren't God inspired.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's weird.

'''Michael Khan:''' It's an argument that falls flat on its face instantly.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's hypocritical.

'''Michael Khan:''' All books are wrote by men. So if you took one out, you took them all out.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's hypocritical.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1239 20:39 Books written by man, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> By Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Science books record scientific discoveries with evidence that can be verified. The bible on the other hand is a book of stories, some based on true events, some completely made up.

== Red Bull ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do bulls give milk?

[...]

'''Flatzoid:''' I mean you obviously do you obviously drink Red Bull, correct, Luka?

'''Luka:''' They they give chocolate milk.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, but you you drink you you drink Red Bull, Luka.

'''Luka:''' Uh no, I don't.

'''Flatzoid:''' I'm proud of you. Because that's got a lot of bulls milk in there.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=2874 47:54 Bull's Milk, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== God told Moses how he built the world ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' And because God told Moses exactly in detail how he made the world.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0?t=77 1:17 God explained how earth was made, <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The bible just claims God did it. There is no explanation whatsoever.

== Fapzoiding ==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I keep getting people ask me, "Why did you make that video?" I don't know. Because the Bible tells me to.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0?t=1791 29:51 Why Flatzoid created fap confession video, <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Nowhere in the bible does it tell you that you have to publicly announce that you masturbated. If it talks about confessing, then it's about you talking to a pastor or praying to God, but not making a YouTube video.

= Lies =
Tiny Captain has a nice compilation of Flatzoid's lies.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5zNY0q36ck <q>The Truth Behind Fkatzoids (‪@FlatzoidsPerspective‬ ) Lies</q> by Tiny Captain]</ref>

== General Lies ==

=== 11 Frames ===
Flatzoid's most famous lie is him removing 11 frames in a video of a capsule splashdown. Reds Rhetoric made a video about that.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-6MQ0y3B4 <q>Flat Earth Dishonesty - Spurs & Flatzoid FE</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref> Critical Think has a shorter summary.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7YnVqFLj0Y <q>The 11 (or 13) frames of shame</q> by Critical Think]</ref>

Basically he wanted to show his viewers that the splash happens when the capsule hit the horizon, instead of slightly afterwards, when it was already well below the horizon. His excuse is that he had the full scene in the stream and that he only removed the frames to remove the effect of a mirage. Obviously removing frames, doesn't remove a mirage, and having both the full clip and one with missing frames doesn't change the fact that he removed the frames.

He admits it in multiple videos.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jOs7dVyBFtY?t=310 5:10 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames, <q>It's Gone! #Inferior mirage</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/GaoHuIqAK4Q?t=98 1:38 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames 2, <q>We Cut The Horizon! AGAIN!11 frames</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/jfrjbsG5s_c?t=318 5:18 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames 3, <q>11 frames 🤨🤷‍♂️</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Reds Rhetoric had a discussion with Flatzoid about it. Flatzoid's argument is that he didn't remove the frames on purpose, because the purpose of removing the frames wasn't to remove the frames, but to remove the mirage.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/k22VYK6Ish4 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

The exchange happened in the debate with Reds Rhetoric:

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I removed the inferior mirage on purpose.

'''Red:''' Which required what?

'''Flatzoid:''' Frames to be taken out by mistake.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/k22VYK6Ish4?si=irfeJFOaB-xjEwAP&t=7824 2:10:24 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

Flatzoid also said in the same video: "No I didn't remove any frames, all the frames are still in the video, I did however remove the inferior mirage in the video, which required frames to be removed but that wasn't my intent although all the frames are still in the video."
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/k22VYK6Ish4?si=tBguSRd6-M0ipww5&t=7681 2:08:01 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

=== Becoming Fkatzoid ===
During MCToon's livestream <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> <ref>[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU<q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref>, Toon checked if Flatzoid had his email address on his channel. Flatzoid didn't and to hide it he quickly added his email address<ref name="flatmail">[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU?t=17652 4:54:12 Adding the email, <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref>, and was caught mistyping it as fkatzoid@gmail.com.<ref>[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU?t=26821 7:27:01 Birth of Fkatzoid, <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> He tried to cover it up by claiming that Toon changed the HTML, even though Toon couldn't have done that as he shared his screen at the time, showing everyone how he refreshed the page. <ref name="flatmail" /> Furthermore Toon would have had to add all the stuff that were removed after Flatzoid updated his about page.

[[File:fkatzoid.png|500px|link={{filepath:fkatzoid.png}}]]

=== Bible says Earth is flat ===
Flatzoid had a bet with Shawn Hawkins about the bible saying that Earth is flat. <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WtprsqnaEk <q>Shawn Owes me $100</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For that Flatzoid brought up 2 Samuel 11:11 of two very obscure bibles.
* The Matthew's Bible: <q>And Vrias sayd vnto Dauid: the arck and Israel & Iuda dwell in pauilions: & my Lord Ioab and the seruauntes of my Lorde lye in tentes vpon the flat earthe: and shulde I then go into myne house, to eate and to dryncke & to lye wyth my wyfe? By thy lyfe and as sure as thy soule lyueth, I wyll not do that thyng.</q><ref>[https://textusreceptusbibles.com/Matthews/10/11 <q>Matthew's Bible 2 Samuel 11</q> by textusreceptusbibles ]</ref>
* The Great Bible: <q>Urias answered Dauid. The arcke & Israel and Iuda dwell in pauylyons: and my Lorde Ioab and the seruauntes of my Lorde lye vpon the flatt erthe: and shall I then go into myne house, to eate, and to dryncke, and lye wyth my wyfe? By thy lyfe and by the lyfe of thy soule, I wyll not do thys thynge.</q><ref>[https://textusreceptusbibles.com/Great/10/11 <q>Great Bible 2 Samuel 11</q> by textusreceptusbibles]</ref>

When looking through other translation it becomes obvious that that passage talks about an open area.<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Samuel%2011%3A11 <q>2 Samuel 11 in multiple translations</q> by Biblegateway]</ref>

=== NASA changing curriculum ===
One of Flatzoid's panel claims that the study <q>A CROSS-CULTURAL INVESTIGATION OF CHILDREN'S CONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE EARTH, THE SUN AND THE MOON: GREEK AND AMERICAN DATA</q> <ref>[https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED318627.pdf <q>A CROSS-CULTURAL INVESTIGATION OF CHILDREN'S CONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE EARTH, THE SUN AND THE MOON: GREEK AND AMERICAN DATA</q>]</ref> was given a grant by NASA.

The claim is that the National Science Foundation (NSF) is an arm of NASA<ref>[https://youtu.be/zavA5T-aGfI?t=1749 29:09 NSF is an arm of NASA, <q>You can’t handle the truth!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, which Flatzoid simply accepted without checking. By simply looking up that foundation what do we find?

<blockquote>The U.S. National Science Foundation is an independent federal agency that supports science and engineering in all 50 states and U.S. territories.
NSF was established in 1950 by Congress to:
* Promote the progress of science.
* Advance the national health, prosperity and welfare.
* Secure the national defense.

We fulfill our mission chiefly by making grants. Our investments account for about 25% of federal support to America's colleges and universities for basic research: research driven by curiosity and discovery. We also support solutions-oriented research with the potential to produce advancements for the American people.</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.nsf.gov/about <q>National Science Foundation</q>]</ref>

Flatzoid and his panel blame NASA for something they have nothing to do with.



=== All images of Earth are composites ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' According to NASA none (of the images of Earth) is real. They're all composites.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=3126 52:06 Flatzoid saying all the images of earth are composites according to NASA, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

It's of course a lie that all the images of Earth are composites. Also composite doesn't mean fake. A composite is essentially a bunch of photos stitched together.

The most famous example of a single frame photograph of Earth is of course the Blue Marble of 1972.

[[File:Blue_marble.webp|500px|link={{filepath:Blue_marble.webp}}]]

<blockquote>
This classic photograph of the Earth was taken on Dec. 7, 1972, by the crew of Apollo 17.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/blue-marble-view-from-apollo-17/ <q>The Blue Marble: The View From Apollo 17</q> by NASA]</ref>

For more photos of Earth taken during the Apollo missions you can visit the [https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/ Apollo Image Atlas].<ref>[https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/ Apollo Image Atlas]</ref>

== Lying about the globe ==
=== Flatzoid's Sunrise Observations===
==== Sunrise in Uvongo December 15 2024 ====
Flatzoid went to Uvongo on a holiday on December 15, 2024 and while there he measured the direction of the sunrise. His phone showed 122°. When comparing it with Google Earth, he claims that the right line is 122°. <ref>[https://youtu.be/extI4zjeg3g?t=270 6:36, <q>Sunrise Observation kills the globe</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

Google Earth actually shows that the right line is 118°.

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-118.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

In a previous video he even claimed the sun rose at 185°.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' 185° South. 185° South guys, that's where the sunrise is in Uvongo South Africa, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa at quarter past 5 a.m. on the 21st of December 2024. 185° South, directly.
</blockquote>

<ref>[https://youtu.be/VuzWm4N5vFQ?t=1893 31:33 Sun rising in Uvongo at 185° according to Flatzoid, <q>The suns position at sunrise?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

==== Sunrise in eManzimtoti December 17 2025 ====
He did it again in December 2025, this time in eManzimtoti, where once again he confirmed the globe prediction.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skLXn3QIdJM&lc=UgyuzS1tFYys-CaW1Bh4AaABAg.AQpOurvGfdzAQpjqMEL229 <q>Sunrise on the coast</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti_flatz.webp|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti_flatz.webp}}]]
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxHXHFSHyqXMrF_IZGM6fTY-fd4JbmS2qb <q>Flatzoid sunrise community post</q>]</ref>

[[File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti.png}}]]

Of course he ignores that the flat earth couldn't even make a prediction.

[[File:No_flat_earth_prediction.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:No_flat_earth_prediction.png}}]]

=== Sun is Helios ===
Flatzoid claims that the sun is the sun god Helios. The model being named after a god doesn't make it a god.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you want to take it on belief systems according to the heliocentric belief system the sun is Helios. It actually um denotes coming from the sun god Helios where all life comes from. Yes even in the heliocentric model you guys believe you require Helios the sun god to give life upon the earth, so you require Helios to be your master.
</blockquote>

The sun is not the god Helios, and no one but religious flerfs claims that to be the case.

=== Globe belief is a cult ===
According to Flatzoid the globe belief is a cult.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do you know your globe belief is a cult? Do you know why it's a cult? Because the only people through history who believed opposite of every civilization in history were the pagan Greeks. They believed that um the moon had to be spherical because of shadows and then they believed because of that the earth had to be a a ball.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=2952 49:12 Flatzoid claiming the globe is a cult, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First of all, the Greeks weren't pagan. Paganism is essentially an insult that Christians made up to talk about other religions. Christianity didn't even exist at the time of the ancient Greeks.

Second, the claim that the Greeks are the only people through history who believed the opposite of every other civilization is simply a lie. A modern example of a group of people who go against every current civilization, are flatearthers. Every current civilization determined that Earth is a globe, and flatearthers claim it's not. Using Flatzoid's logic, flat earth belief is a cult as they go against every current civilization.

Third, the Greeks being the first to properly observe and measure Earth's shape doesn't make it a cult. Every other civilization over time realized that Earth is indeed a globe and they adopted it and did their own measurements independent of the others.

== TFE and Antarctica ==

MCToon's videos can be found [https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22MCToon%22 here]

=== TFE not an experiment ===
In a debate against Will Duffy about TFE on Modern-Day Debate Flatzoid brought up a presentation about TFE not being an experiment and being a false dichotomy.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQqSOnGwRGk <q>DEBATE: Flat Earth and Antarctica Predictions | Will Duffy Vs Flatzoid | Podcast</q> by Modern-Day Debate]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid presentation0.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation0.png}}]]

==== What is Science? ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation1.png}}]]

TFE is science as they are observing the position of the sun in Antarctica in December to determine whether the globe prediction of a 24h sun or the flat earth prediction of "nuh-uh" is true.

==== Sun observations ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation2.png}}]]

The globe predicts the sun's position exactly, as Flatzoid himself demonstrated when he observed the sunrise in Uvongo, even though [[Flatzoid#Sunrise_in_Uvongo | he lied about the direction]]. The flat earth on the other hand can't make any predictions as [[Flatzoid#Predictions|Flatzoid himself declared]]. His claim of the angular size changing is a lie. What changes depending on weather conditions is the glare.

==== Scientific Hypothesis ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation3.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation3.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation4.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation4.png}}]]

The hypothesises used are:
# Earth is a globe, orbiting the sun with an axial tilt, which predicts a 24h sun in December in Antarctica.
# Earth is flat with the North Pole in the center and Antarctica around the rim, the most popular flat earth model at the time, which predicts a 24h sun in Antarctica to be impossible. Of course the remaining flerfs immediately declared their model to not be a model, and retracted any claims as soon as they are being tested.

As we saw from the videos taking during TFE, the predicted outcome of Earth being a globe came true.

The variables are used later when it comes to testing the hypothesis.

==== Independent Variable ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation5.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation5.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation6.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation6.png}}]]

In case of TFE the independent variables, yes Flatzoid you can have more than one independent variable, are location and time. They went to Antarctica in December to watch the sun moving 360° around them. The dependent variable is the sun's observed position from Earth, which depends on the location and time. To be really pedantic the independent variables for the globe are Earth's rotation, its axial tilt, its position in orbit around the sun, and the observer's location on Earth's surface. There is no need to directly manipulate the independent variable, they just need to change.

==== False Dichotomy ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation7.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation7.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation8.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation8.png}}]]

There were two potential outcomes for TFE:
# Sun sets.
# Sun doesn't set.

In the first case every model with a 24h sun (i.e. the globe) are falsified and every model with a setting sun gained a piece of evidence.

In the second case the opposite is true. Every model with a setting sun (i.e. a flat earth) are falsified and every model with a sun moving around the location gained evidence.

The conclusion of TFE was of course the second case, where the globe didn't just predict the existence of a 24h sun, but also the exact position of the sun and the shadows. The flat earth on the other hand couldn't provide any kind of model that even remotely matches the observations, so they just come up with more or less ridiculous reasons to call it fake. Many of them are listed below. The only actual attempt of a working model I've seen, was made by Joe Hanvey, which has the sun being reflected on the dome. That model doesn't explain how the sun can move around Union Glacier, and if it was true, it means that it's not possible to have a sunset.

==== Glaring Issues ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation9.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation9.png}}]]

Will Duffy chose an observation that most flerfs agreed would falsify the flat earth and confirm the globe. As usual as soon as the project is being done, they always request other things. Just like they did when Mr.Sensible sent M.A.G.E. 2 to show curvature, they come up with excuses to not accept it.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFBq0xnCJKE&list=PLk6dtpIYGDmhSMTSpCG3kMWujbbM9o_NS <q>M.A.G.E</q> playlist by Mr Sensible Historic]</ref>

[[File:Mage2_curve.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve.png}}]]

Increasing the contrast makes Earth's curvature more visible.

[[File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png}}]]

For rotation, one way to see it is by using satellites, like this clip taken by GOES East<ref>[https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/index.php <q>GOES Image Viewer</q> by NOAA]</ref> during the solar eclipse of April 8, 2024.

On Earth you can do an experiment using a Foucault's Pendulum<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8rrWUUlZ_U <q>Foucault's Pendulum: Watch the world turn.</q> by The Gentleman Physicist]</ref> or a precise enough gyroscope.

[[File:Solar-eclipse-small.gif|400px|link={{filepath:Solar-eclipse-small.gif}}]]

Gravity is the explanation for objects falling towards the ground and for orbits, like the moon orbiting the Earth, something that flat earth has not even an attempt of an explanation. Of course flatearthers always use some excuses to not use gravity, like saying it's buoyancy and density, even though [[Flatzoid#Buoyancy | buoyancy can't even exist without opposing another force]], like the one caused by gravity.

An experiment that can be done, would be the Cavendish experiment<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbucRPiL92Q <q>The Cavendish Experiment - Obvious Gravitational Attraction</q> by MrLundScience]</ref>, which Flatzoid plans on doing himself. He needs to use the same scrutiny he used for TFE.

For example:
* A uninterrupted livestream. If the livestream is interrupted by a blackout or internet connectivity issues, the entire experiment is fake, according to his standard.
* There can't be any glitches or lens distortions, even when they can't be avoided.
* He has to call Steve from England during his livestream, as apparently that was important for TFE.
* There can't be anything orange, red, blue or any other color [[Flatzoid#Colors|he declares to be masonic]].
* He has to swear on the bible with his left hand, as [[Flatzoid#Putting_your_right_hand_on_the_bible|using the right hand is masonic]] according to him.
* There can't be any shoe, especially the left shoe, visible, as [[Flatzoid#Left_boot|that's masonic]] apparently.
* He can't form any kind of [[Flatzoid#Hand_sign|hand sign]] he declares to be masonic even accidentally.

=== Sun going behind Mount Rossman ===
Flatzoid used a clip of Dave McKeegan saying that the sun was going behind Mount Rossman.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5sWcXU8QE <q>Unreal TFE</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In this context it simply means that the sun is further away than the mountain in the same direction as the mountain. It doesn't mean that the Mountain blocked the sun. Jeran shortly after in the same video was in Union Glacier Camp, where the sun can actually be blocked by the mountain at the end of the camp closest to the mountain.

=== Toon and Duffy aging ===
In the same video<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> as in the previous lie, Flatzoid also claims that Toon and Will aged a lot, by comparing a video taken by a phone by one of the organizers of the Antarctica marathon, with the videos taken in Will's and Toon's home respectively. Something flerfs haven't done is to compare the videos Toon and Duffy took earlier in the year with the footage after TFE when the conditions are the same. It's like they know it won't work if they do that.

The main problem is when were they supposed to be in Antarctica before? The marathon is only in southern summer, so if they went for example in June, they wouldn't have met the marathon guys. In fact they wouldn't even have met them if they went a week earlier or later. Furthermore in Southern winter, Antarctica has 24h night. They also couldn't have gone a year earlier, as the first teaser was released on February 14 2024.

MCToon filmed the interview with the marathon guys.
*[https://archive.org/details/MCToon-TFEAntarctica-20241211075044 Marathon Interview part 1]
*[https://archive.org/details/MCToon-TFEAntarctica-20241211082247 Marathon Interview part 2]

=== Union Glacier Camp not visible ===
Another lie is the claim that Toon and Duffy filmed the site off season, when Union Glacier Camp wasn't set up, because the camp isn't visible in the footage.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> In reality the camp is simply lower than halfway-point, where TFE was, as shown by the drone footage.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1yKGnMzVoE <q>The Final Experiment Mile High Drone with Ascent and Descent by Will Duffy Telemetry by WheresWally</q> by WheresWally]</ref>

[[File:Union-glacier-drone.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union-glacier-drone.png}}]]

=== Marathon runner breath ===
In a discussion with Witsit, Flatzoid claimed at the beginning that the breath of the marathon runners was always visible.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' We showed a video of the marathon runners there a day earlier and their breath was showing the whole time and they were also at Union Glacier. So why was it possible that their breath is always showing and your guys wasn't?<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=264 4:24 Flatzoid saying they always show their breath, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

When Witsit calls him out on that, he claims that he never said that we can always see the breath of the marathon runners.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Now you are lying because you didn't watch any of my content so when did I say we always see their breath? [...] I said most of the time.<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=942 15:42 Witsit calling Flatzoid out, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

The breath is visible depending on the lighting conditions as shown by Dave McKeegan.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MsLg8Pjf-k <q>Does #Vapegate and 'No breath' destroy 'The Final Experiment'?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:Breath.png|600px|link={{filepath:Breath.png}}]]

=== Flatzoid claims TFE was rendered in Unreal Engine ===
During a debate between Flatzoid and Dave McKeegan, Flatzoid claimed that he thinks that TFE could have been done in Unreal Engine.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' My uh idea is how they could have faked it was Duffy or someone could have gone earlier and and got high def HDRs uh surround environments of Antarctica, because when you look at the in the footage we don't see Union Glacier anywhere around there and they're only about 1.5 km away you should see Union Glacier camp we don't see Union Glacier camp at Mount Rossman. So that shows that they were either probably there when it was off-season when there were no tourists available, they were able to get their uh environment done, HDR environment done, and they could make recreate it in Unreal Engine 5 if they wanted to and therefore when they did all really go down in December they were able to just fake the sky and have the rest as a real environment.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=11820s 7:18 Flatzoid claiming TFE was faked in Unreal Engine, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>
</blockquote>

Dave McKeegan made a great video about how it's not possible to use Unreal Engine to fake TFE.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7h1gwmNzU <q>We faked the 24hr sun with Unreal Engine .... Apparently</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

As for the camp not being visible, [[Flatzoid#Union_Glacier_Camp_not_visible|that was already explained before]].

=== Camera glitching means that the video is fake? ===
In the discussion with Dave McKeegan, Dave showed the footage on his insta 360. Unfortunately the camera glitched and showed a green frame. Flatzoid, dishonest as usual, took that as evidence of fakery. <ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=1066 17:46 Camera glitch, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Dave camera glitch.png|400px|link={{filepath:"Dave camera glitch".png}}]]

=== Plane flight ceiling ===
According to Flatzoid the flight ceiling of planes flying over Antarctica is 13,000 feet.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2211 36:51 Flight ceiling, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why they have a ceiling of 13,000 ft when flying in Antarctica?
</blockquote>

Of course that's a lie. The planes fly at over 35,000 ft. Apparently Flatzoid already looked that up himself.

[[File:Antarctica altitude.png|400px|link={{filepath:Antarctica_altitude.png}}]]

=== Green Screen ===
[[File:Green_screen.png|400px|link={{filepath:Green_screen.png}}]]

Flatzoid tried to show how TFE was faked by supposedly using a green screen<ref>[https://youtu.be/fj7_F9qTv3k?t=1170 19:30 Flatzoid failing to understand green screens, <q>How to fake the final experiment</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, completely ignoring that the TFE team already showed that it's not possible for them to have used a green screen.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxC9cZx5Jcw <q>The Final Experiment Drone Supercut Time Synchronized Videos Debunking Dronegate 4K</q> by WheresWally]</ref> WheresWally's video also shows that a studio is not possible as they are walking through a vastly larger area, also the studio can't be used with multiple different cameras filming it from vastly different angles.

[[File:Drone_supercut.png|400px|link={{filepath:Drone_supercut.png}}]]

=== Snow ===
Flatzoid talks about Witsit walking a few meters away to get some snow.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Asked this many times. Uh, why did he walk away to get snow? Well his argument was there was no loose snow by him. Where if you look at the 360 footage, there is a lot of snow right by the camera on the barrel where his uh laptop was.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=634 10:34 Flatzoid talking about Witsit getting snow, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The area around the TFE location was compacted, so it's not easy to grab the snow. Witsit simply didn't notice the snow near the barrel, so he simply walked to a place outside of the compacted area to get some loose snow.

What is even the argument? Witsit didn't use the snow near the barrel, therefore that snow is fake? Either all the snow is fake or all is real. It makes no sense to use different kinds of material to use as snow.

Arctic Reflections made a video about the snow.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPwRaF4rq8g <q>The South African flat earth snow expert!</q> by Arctic Reflections]</ref>

=== Local sun ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's only two possibilities here the sun is real for some odd reason there and uh they filmed a local sun. Great so let's say we accepted their deception as real, yes then they just to proved that the sun was local and not 93 million miles away, but if we do uh also accept that it's just a deception and nothing they presented was actually evidential as true, it debunks them anyway because it also shows they had to fabricate it, because it didn't suit their narrative. So it doesn't matter which way they go. They proved the sun is not 93 million miles away and they proved it's not a globe.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=683 11:23 Flatzoid talking about the sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That makes absolutely no sense. How does the sun being real and the same angular size as it is in Uvongo South Africa, where Flatzoid filmed the sun, mean that the sun is locally moving 360° around Union Glacier, which doesn't work on any flat earth? The globe predicted the exact position of the sun and the resulting shadows for a sun that's about 151 million km away, on a rotating globe. The flat earth couldn't even predict that the sun would be visible for 24 hours or that the sun rises South of East in Uvongo, South Africa in Southern Summer as Flatzoid himself demonstrated.

There is no prediction of a local sun that matches the observations, so how is the local sun correct?

=== Footprints ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' When they were walking on that, um, on that compacted ice, snow, there was supposed to show footprints even if it is compacted. Remember it's got little ridges and they, their shoes have little, uh, you know, every all shoes, all in their soles always have little indentations and things like that. So it should break off pieces of that. It didn't break off nothing um and sometimes they walked that showed, sometimes it didn't, sometimes the the uh footprints, it just appeared out of nowhere. So yes the nonsense excuse of no there was it was just compact ice.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=745 12:25 Flatzoid complaining about lack of footprints, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The snow around the TFE camp was compacted so it's difficult to leave footprints. Footprints still accumulated over time as Dave McKeegan shows in his video.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1278 21:18 Dave McKeegan explaining footprints, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

Furthermore, Will Duffy's 24 non time lapse video shows the participants leave footprints.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Gv4nUyTQcVw?t=790 13:10 Leaving footprints in Antarctica, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 1)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

=== Weather reports ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I remember when we were still, um, watching the live from uh from Witsit and them and we were like, we went over the weather report there, and we're looking at the Witsit live weather report while they were there, and it was showing cloudy and windy, yet while they were live there was no clouds, there were, there was no wind and we've never got an answer to it at all.
</blockquote>

Antarctica is a large continent with very few weather stations. So the weather reports are less accurate than in more populated areas. There was a storm coming up, that's the reason they had to leave a day earlier.

=== Sun changing shape ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun shouldn't change um shape and stuff, if they claiming a 93 million mile away sun. Just to let you guys know, because that's why they claim the sun wouldn't change angular size, because it's too far away. So what's what is their excuse actually for the sun warping and going like this.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=918 15:18 Flatzoid claiming the sun changes shape, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The sun didn't actually change shape. It's literally just lens distortion as Dave McKeegan shows.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1481 24:41 Dave McKeegan explaining lens distortion, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> Furthermore the sun appearing to change shape, demonstrates that it's not possible that the background was added to the footage. It simply wouldn't happen with a fake background.

In his livestream, Dave McKeegan shows that the distortion of the sun is different between different cameras, making it impossible that they just added a background.<ref>[https://youtu.be/W9-BKj5_87A?t=17696 4:54:56 Dave McKeegan comparing the different camera footage, <q>Flat Earth desperation reaching new heights?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> It would require them to have a different background for each camera, with different lens distortions, while still matching the clouds.

[[File:Tfe_sun_comparison.png|800px|link={{filepath:Tfe_sun_comparison.png}}]]

=== Two suns ===

[[File:Two_suns.png|800px|link={{filepath:Two_suns.png}}]]

Flatzoid thinks that this frame shows the real sun at the bottom and a fake sun on at the top.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, this guys look, this, but look at that. When I saw this first I was like, hm could they just claim reflection or maybe the bottom is the real sun, the top is the fake one? Think about that guys because where's it reflecting off of because that's sky. That's where it's supposedly reflecting off of is sky. That is fake because even if you look at the sun angle, look at this it can more or less look like the sun's light is coming from there (from the bottom sun), not from there (from the top sun). Exactly. So this to me is a nail in the coffin. You can't have a reflection of the sun above the surface it's supposed to be on the surface and it also can't be a reflection, because if it's a curve, remember curves go like this, the light would not be able to go around like they're showing this. It wouldn't be able to be situated. It's showing it below the um the ground there, so that's a low sun, that is a fake sun. You can even see, look how clear (botom sun) that is and look how blurry (top sun). You see how clear this is, look how blurry the sun is there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1736 28:56 Flatzoid and the fake sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The bottom "sun" is a reflection on clouds. The actual sun is the one at the top. The sunlight clearly comes from above. If it came from below the hill Dave is standing on would be in shade, which it isn't. Furthermore, both suns are blurry because of the clouds.

We probably get more footage from that time once the documentary is released.

=== Sun in front of mountain ===
Flatzoid thinks the sun went in front of the mountain.

[[File:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun actually goes in front of the the mountain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1913 31:53 Flatzoid and the sun in front of the mountain, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That effect is literally just glare. The funny thing is that he filmed the same effect himself. Is he saying that the sun in his sunrise video went in front of the horizon?

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

=== Vanishing vehicles ===
Flatzoid thinks the vehicles just disappear.<ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=2147 35:47 Flatzoid confused by Vehicles going downhill, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In fact they simply went downhill as Union Glacier is lower than the TFE camp.

=== Date of Arrival ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' 10th of December. He claimed they literally got there and then they had to get ready and go eat, and then leave the next day, to uh go to uh Union Glacier. And they went to Union Glacier on the 14th. So that means his ticket that says the 10th of December shows he was at Punta Arenas way before he claimed to be there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=7166 1:59:26 Flatzoid and the ticket, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Jeran arrived on the 10th at Punta Arenas. They stayed a few days in Punta Arenas, where they did some observations like the sunset in the South West, before continuing their journey to Union Glacier. After they arrived at Union Glacier on the 14th that's when he said that they arrived, ate something and moved immediately to the TFE camp.

=== Calling Steve from England ===
Flatzoid had a livestream with Steve from England and Will Duffy to ask among other things about Will not calling Steve on the first day.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqXCpgOmmBM <q>Let's have a talk!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Steve was annoyed that he wasn't called the first day, even though Will specifically stated that he might not be able to call Steve on the first day.

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' So let's talk about the clouds for a second. So I don't know which day we're going to be able to do this. Um, maybe we can do it on the 14th, but if, but if we can't, maybe we'll do it on the 15th. We have, we have a few days, if there's cloud coverage, I think what we should do is, try to do it the next day, and I think we should try to do it each day until we have clear skies.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2457 40:57 Will talking about cloud coverage with Steve, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' I'm giving you my my word here publicly and I'm looking forward to doing this test with you specifically at that time one of the days we're there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2783 46:23 Will Duffy telling Steve that he will call one of the days he is in Antarctica, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

If having a live call is so important, Critical Think had one with his friend<ref name="critical_call">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Ij1lr5OKs <q>Conversations with a flattie about the Sun.</q> by Critical Think]</ref>. There is a second call, <q>Where are the guns</q> call between Toon and Oakley<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bwNkVviosM <q>I Called a Flat Earther from Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4Esq_qgGM <q>Two sides of a story: McToon calls Oakley</q> by Bert Rickles]</ref>. That call wasn't livestreamed, but the 360° cameras captured it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vzGvqEObA6c?t=2353 39:13 Where are the guns, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 3)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/jliLRasB48U?t=1157 19:17 Where are the guns, <q>360° Timelapse of capturing the 24hr Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

=== 24 hour live stream ===
Flatzoid and his panel like to bring up the TFE team not having a 24 hour livestream. Will never promised that they will have a 24 hour live stream, as he didn't know how well the Starlink would perform in Antarctica. He did attempt it, but because of a software update of his phone and Starlink, the stream was interrupted and in the end aborted. Flerfs like to demand the evidence they didn't get, and even if they did get it, they wouldn't accept it.

They also claim that the attempted 24h livestream was taken down at the time the sun set, which is not true. The Starlink update happened during MCToon's livestream<ref name="local_midnight">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQ7nklL8X4 <q>Live 100% Flat Earth Destruction Guaranteed</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> between 2 and 3 hours after solar midnight when the sun is in direction of Mount Rossman at the lowest point it can be.

There were multiple live streams during TFE
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LNSbStu9c <q>It's Midnight in Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1vXwAT6P5k <q>There Are No Green Screens in Antarctica (Here's Proof!)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBIyN7ZWifE <q>The Final Experiment Live from Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref name="local_midnight"/>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDJlAfTgns <q>Critical Think is live at Union Glacier</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref name="critical_call"/>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQknVsqbDfg <q>Critical Think in Antarctica live with the Wolf Pack</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOYpeysawuw <q>The 24 hour sun has been captured in Antarctica!</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOW_FTWMVV0 <q>We are LIVE from ANTARCTICA. Like WTF. Share this! Insanity</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPNmpiwl5Vs <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nteDLN8kX2k <q>SUNSPOT Observations from 80 Degrees South</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjTegLsl6lQ <q>My Last Live From The Ice. Goodbye Antarctica! You Will Not Be Missed!</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3839ioLw6-o <q>Flat Earther and Film Maker on #TheFinalExperiment - Live From Antarctica!</q> by Jonathan Mariande]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxzu2reS_o <q>Live from Antarctica - One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Flat Earth</q> by Witsit Gets It]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idrvFgrMK_A <q>Showing experiments in Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
, the ones taking place outside at halfway point, were all captured by the 360° cameras.

Of course they are just claiming that all of those were fake.

Flatzoid is also claiming that he is still waiting for the 24h footage.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah we're still waiting for the 24hour footage they claim to give us.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=453 7:33 Flatzoid waiting for 24h footage, <q></q>]</ref>

The 24h footage has already been uploaded to YouTube.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv4nUyTQcVw <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 1)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dC_06X8bto <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 2)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzGvqEObA6c <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 3)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

Of course, when he was told about the videos, he just lied about them.

[[File:moving_goalposts.png|500px|link={{filepath:moving_goalposts.png}}]]

[[File:moving_goalposts_2.png|500px|link={{filepath:moving_goalposts.png}}]]

=== Jeran said the sun set ===
The most ridiculous claim of fakery is the claim that Jeran said the sun sets. First Steve from England claimed that Jeran said the sun sets, which was debunked by DP Debunks.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pco9fPVPZs <q>Steve, Where’s My £1000? I Proved You Wrong!</q> by DP Debunks]</ref> Steve even acknowledged to be wrong and paid the 1000 £.

Now a new claim about Jeran saying the sun sets, was presented on Flatzoid's livestream.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TWRYniB1k40?t=3588 59:48 Jeran saying the sun sets?, <q>TFE The Final Experiment faked? Talk</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> By watching just a few seconds longer, it becomes clear that Jeran was talking about when he set up his mount.<ref>[https://youtu.be/VPNmpiwl5Vs?t=415 6:55 Jeran talking about setting up his mount, <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref> He simply wanted to make sure that he captured a full 24 hours, and wasn't a few minutes short.

=== Clockwise and counterclockwise ===
Flatzoid thinks that the sun in Antarctica, as filmed during TFE, moves counterclockwise.<ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=7397 2:03:17 Flatzoid confused by clockwise and counterclockwise, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> The problem is that he is thinking about the sun's movement as seen from above, but the direction is determined by looking at it from below. Dave McKeegan explains that in his video.<ref>[https://youtu.be/CK1ZNRu_3T0 <q>Flat Earthers confused by Left & Right</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> It's best seen in Toon's time lapse filming the shadows.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9comYMcMcio?t=1405 23:25 <q>THE FINAL EXPERIMENTS - Shadow Predictions</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Either way, the sun moves in different directions depending if you are North of the equator or South of it, which the globe predicts, but the flat earth can't account for.

===24h sunlight ===
Flatzoid claims that it's just 24h sunlight in Antarctica, but the sun is not visible, while at the same saying that the sun is visible for months.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' In Antarctica, there are periods of 24 hours of sunlight during the summer, not 24 hours of the sun in the sky. The sun is visible for months on end during the Antarctic summer, but it's still technically the 24-hour period, just with sunlight present the entire time.
</blockquote>

== Space ==
=== Van Allen Belts ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do you know they didn't even know about the Van Allen radiation belt on Apollo 11?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=3470 57:50 Flatzoid talking about the Van Allen Belts, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The Van Allen radiation belt were discovered in 1958, over ten years before Apollo 11.

<blockquote>
Located beyond low-Earth orbit, these radiation belts were discovered in 1958 by astrophysicist James Van Allen who helped uncover the key to enabling exploration of the outer solar system. Van Allen calculated that it was possible to fly through the weaker regions of radiation to reach outer space.
</blockquote><ref>[https://science.nasa.gov/biological-physical/stories/van-allen-belts/ <q>What are the Van Allen Belts and why do they matter?</q> by NASA]</ref>

=== Planets ===
According to Flatzoid planets are just lights in the sky.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean what are the planets first of all? You just that at the moment they're just lights in the sky. [...] That's all we observe.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=2108 35:08 Flatzoid claiming that planets are just lights in the sky, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is simply not true. Anyone with a decent telescope can observe the planets and see for themselves that they are actually physical objects.<ref>[https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astrophotography/astrophoto-tips/how-to-photograph-planets <q>How to photograph the planets</q> by sky at night magazine]</ref> Calling something a light in the sky doesn't even mean anything. Light doesn't just appear. It needs a source, like a star or it's being reflected on a surface, like a planet.



= Showcasing His Stupidity =

== Math ==
=== Flatzoid doesn't understand variables in geometry ===
Flatzoid thinks he understands geometry better than anyone else. But in this post he demonstrates that he has no idea. The correct answer is arctan(opposite/adjacent). He wrote 45° which would be wrong even for this example as the triangle is very clearly not a 45-45-90 triangle. 
[[File:Flatzoid_solving_a_triangle.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_solving_a_triangle.jpg}}]]

=== Angle is a hypotenuse? ===
Flatzoid thinks that an angle is a hypotenuse. The clip is in one of FTFE's videos, as I couldn't find the original video.

[[File:Flatzoid-hypotenuse.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-hypotenuse.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' the 45 degree that you at the sun [...] would that be a hypotenuse of a right angle triangle?
</blockquote> <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq0qUkFhG-s <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - FTFE VS Matthew Hakim - Was The Final Experiment A Hoax?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid-hypotenuse-discord.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-hypotenuse-discord.png}}]]

Here is an example of what the hypotenuse actually is. The hypotenuse is side a, the side opposite of the right angle at point A. As you can see a hypotenuse does not represent a 45° angle, as none of the angles in the following example even is 45°. Even with 45° angles, a hypotenuse doesn't represent an angle.

[[File:Right-angle-triangle.png|400px|link={{filepath:Right-angle-triangle.png}}]]

=== Measurements and calculations ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that you can measure things through calculations.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Obviously they calculate the earth circumference. I want to point out calculate is not measured. There's a difference between calculation and measured because if you measured it you'd have to physically know what to do, and because the earth is so large and there's no way to actually measure the earth other than um the instruments we got today, which is based off of a horizontal measurement and then calculate it into whatever you need it to be. So yes calculations um measurements are two different things and that's why they calculated the circumference not measured it. So they assumed there is a sphere they assumed there is a radius they took a measurement of an angle and that angle was then calculated to give the radius circumference.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=549 9:09 Flatzoid claiming calculations aren't measurements, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

You can measure things with calculations. It's simple geometry. For example you can measure Earth's circumference by measuring the angle of shadows between two locations a known distance apart. That's how Eratosthenes measured Earth's circumference.<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_circumference#Eratosthenes <q>Earth's_circumference</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

[[File:Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg.png|400px|link={{filepath:Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg.png}}]]

=== Multiplications ===
Flatzoid can't do multiplications.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Xdb_x64a86s?t=8652 2:24:12 Flatzoid trying to multiply, <q>Ask Us anything?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Arcminutes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Arcminutes.png}}]]

As anyone who ever used a calculator can verify, if 1° is 60 minutes then 360° is 360 * 60 = 21600 minutes, not 1440. He even shows that 1440 is 24 * 60, not 360 * 60.

When Tiny Captain calls him out on that and the [[Flatzoid#11_Frames|11 frames]] and his [[Flatzoid#Celestial_Navigation|celestial navigation]] lies, Flatzoid uses the excuse of misrepresentation.

[[File:Tiny_captain_flatzoid_lies.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:Tiny_captain_flatzoid_lies.jpg}}]]

=== Angle to Stars ===
Flatzoid tries to show how to determine the distance to the Ground Position (GP) of a star by using the elevation angle. As the illustration shows, the altitude of the star has to change to have a constant distance between the measured elevation angles. As a side note, that shows that you can measure distances by using calculations.

[[File:Flatzoid_polaris.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_polaris.png}}]]

* At 600 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,402.76909 NM
* At 1200 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,296.9729 NM
* At 1800 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,117.69145 NM
* At 2400 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,860.20862 NM
* At 3000 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,517.29889 NM
* At 3600 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,078.46097 NM
* At 4200 NM the star is at an altitude of 1,528.67498 NM
* At 4800 NM the star is at an altitude of 846.36951 NM
* At 5400 NM the star is at an altitude of 0 NM

It's not just that it looks that way. On a flat Earth the star actually has to go physically lower. If the star keeps its altitude the distance between each degree won't be the same.

Let's set the star at an altitude of 4,000 NM.

* At 600 NM the star is at an angle of 81.469°
* At 1200 NM the star is at an angle of 73.301°
* At 1800 NM the star is at an angle of 65.772°
* At 2400 NM the star is at an angle of 59.036°
* At 3000 NM the star is at an angle of 53.13°
* At 3600 NM the star is at an angle of 48.013°
* At 4200 NM the star is at an angle of 43.603°
* At 4800 NM the star is at an angle of 39.806°
* At 5400 NM the star is at an angle of 36.529°

As you can see, on a flat earth the 60 NM per degree simply doesn't work.

=== Derivative of velocity ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that acceleration is the derivative of velocity, which in turn is the derivative of position.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' What's the difference between acceleration and velocity?

'''Wesley:''' Acceleration is velocity um the integral, sorry integral or, no it's the derivative of velocity.

'''Flatzoid:''' No.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=1680 28:00 Flatzoid not understanding derivatives, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Time derivatives of position.png|300px|link={{filepath:Time derivatives of position.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Wikipedia:''' In physics, the fourth, fifth and sixth derivatives of position are defined as derivatives of the position vector with respect to time – with the first, second, and third derivatives being velocity, acceleration, and jerk, respectively.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth,_fifth,_and_sixth_derivatives_of_position <q>Fourth, fifth, and sixth derivatives of position</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

=== Centimeters to meters ===
Flatzoid had to use Google to convert centimeters to meters.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0eTKD5M105c?t=7410 2:03:30 Flatzoid converting centimeters to meters <q>Flat Earth Friday: God’s Firmament Exposes NASA’s Lies | The Bible vs The Globe</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:flatzoid_centimeters.png|600px|link={{filepath:flatzoid_centimeters.png}}]]

=== Right angle is 60 degrees ===

[[File:Right_angle.png|800px|link={{filepath:Right_angle.png}}]]

== Physics ==
The University of Colorado has a good collection of [https://phet.colorado.edu/en/simulations/filter?type=html simulations] that help to illustrate some comcepts in physics.

=== Sunglare needs an atmosphere? ===
Flatzoid claimed that glare needs an atmosphere while he was looking at photos taken by Blue Ghost from the moon. <ref>[https://youtu.be/qSlnZD3ji0g?t=2728 45:28 Looking at Blue Ghost photos, <q>Mctoons Flerf Wiki Obsession</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective and reference frames ===
Dave McKeegan explained in a video how Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective parallax etc, by using a video made by UThink. Flatzoid reviews that video and demonstrates once again he doesn't understand it. <ref>[https://youtu.be/tQAqABZ6i0U?t=4399 1:13:19 <q>TFE Fakery and some U2 Spy Plane action</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Flatzoid thinks that if Earth moves, the roundabout in the animation, that the camera must move relative to the ground to keep the table in view.

=== Magnetism vs Gravity ===
In a discussion between Flatzoid and FTFE, they were comparing gravity and magnetism. Flatzoid is fine with changing the magnetic field by adding charge, but at the same time he doesn't accept changing mass to change the force of gravity.<ref>[https://youtu.be/IZwSCTKqdkE?t=937 15:37 Magnetism vs Gravity, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - FTFE VS Flatzoid - Gravity & The 2nd Law Of Thermodynamics</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

=== Haze ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that haze makes the sun look smaller.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out look at the sun does that look anything like we saw from their footage?

'''SSUM:''' Not even close.

'''???:''' Not even close, nope.

'''Flatzoid:''' Look how at the angular size. That's quite odd.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/GEmFjWYn1Cs?t=4168 1:09:28 Flatzoid not understanding haze, <q>TFE shows more fakery?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Haze.png|500px|link={{filepath:Haze.png}}]]

=== Water ===
According to Flatzoid water at rest doesn't curve.<ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=1887 31:27 Water doesn't curve at rest according to Flatzoid, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

In fact it does curve when at rest.<ref>[https://physicsexperiments.eu/4302/water-droplets-on-various-surfaces <q>Water droplets on various surfaces</q> by physicsexperiments]</ref> The fact that it's caused by surface tension doesn't change that water at rest is curving.

[[File:Water_drops.png|500px|link={{filepath:Water_drops.png}}]]

If we go to larger scales, water is never at rest because of currents, wind, and other forces acting on it.

=== First Law of Thermodynamics ===
Flatzoid had a discussion with Brenda about the laws of thermodynamics.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=1870 31:10 Flatzoid discussing thermodynamics with Brenda <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The laws of thermodynamics only apply within the universe, not to the origin of the universe.

Of course his claim is that the universe violates the first law of thermodynamics. His understanding of the Big Bang is the typical creationist claim "everything comes from nothing." That's of course not how the Big Bang is described.

<blockquote>
The Big Bang Theory stands as the most widely accepted explanation for the origin of the universe. According to this theory, the universe began as an infinitely small, hot, and dense point, which rapidly expanded and continued to stretch over 13.7 billion years. This initial period of rapid inflation set the stage for the vast and still-growing cosmos we observe today.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html <q>What is the Big Bang Theory?</q> by space.com]</ref>

Obviously he won't accept the matter always existing, like he believes for God, or that it appears from nothing, like how God made the universe according to the bible. Using his own logic, God violates the first law of thermodynamics, which he is perfectly fine with.

=== Second Law of Thermodynamics ===
According to Flatzoid the second law of thermodynamics states that gas pressure needs a container, which is wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' According to the second law of thermodynamics, gas pressure will require containment. Why? Because gas will always seek to available uh space, and if we don't have this uh containment holding it in, it will have, what we call free expansion of gas, so it will expand freely into the available space around it. So if space is real and you have no container, the gas we breathe will just all fill that available space and therefore we'd all be dead. Well and eventually it'll lose its elasticity, it'll stop bouncing off stuff and it it it'll lose its energy, gas pressure, because gas moves in all directions constantly. It would have to have a um a collision to come back. The fact we have gas where we are means it's having collisions to come back.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=924 15:24 Flatzoid explaining the second law of thermodynamics, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Some definitions of the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

<blockquote>
'''William Thomson (Lord Kelvin):''' A cyclic transformation whose only final result is to transform heat extracted from a source which is at the same temperature throughout into work is impossible.

'''Rudolf Clausius:''' A cyclic transformation whose only final result is to transfer heat from a body at a given temperature to a body at a higher temperature is impossible.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/second-law-of-thermodynamics <q>second law of thermodynamics</q> by Britannica]</ref>

As anyone can see at a glance, the law talks about heat and temperature, not about gas pressure. Furthermore the existence of the pressure gradient demonstrates that gas does not fill the available space even if there was a dome.

=== Open System ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Earth is claimed to be an open system so therefore gas will be bouncing in and out of this open system to the surrounding area.
</blockquote>

Earth being an open system doesn't mean that the gas will just leave. There are forces keeping the gas from leaving, namely the attraction between objects with mass called gravity, the same force that prevents his coffee from leaving the mug. Of course he is going to claim that gravity is not a force, which in no way refutes the fact that objects including gas are attracted to Earth.

=== Heat and Temperature ===
<blockquote>
'''What is heat?'''

Heat is essentially the transfer of thermal energy between objects or systems due to a temperature difference. It resembles the flow of energy, akin to current moving through a wire. For example, when you toss a hot potato to a friend, the thermal energy—heat—moves from the potato (higher temperature) to your friend’s hand (lower temperature). Heat is measured in joules (J), and the greater the temperature difference between the objects, the faster the heat is transferred.

'''What is temperature?'''

Temperature, on the other hand, measures the average kinetic energy of the particles within an object. Consider it as the intensity of heat. The faster the particles vibrate or move, the higher the temperature, and vice versa Thus, the hot coffee has particles with higher average kinetic energy compared to the cup holding it, even if they display the same temperature reading. Temperature is a property of a system, similar to its length or mass, and is measured using scales like Celsius (°C), Fahrenheit (°F), or Kelvin (K).
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.dabedan.com/en/understanding-the-difference-between-heat-and-temperature/ <q>Difference between heat and temperature</q> by Dabedan]</ref>

=== Buoyancy ===
Buoyancy is also one of the topics that flerfs in general, including Flatzoid don't understand.

<blockquote>
When an object is immersed in a fluid, wholly or partially, the fluid exerts an upward force opposite its weight. This phenomenon is known as buoyancy, and the upward thrust is known as the buoyant force. A characteristic of buoyancy is that it determines whether an object will float or sink.
</blockquote><ref name="sciencefacts-buoyancy">[https://www.sciencefacts.net/buoyancy.html <q>Buoyancy</q> by sciencefacts]</ref>

[[File:Buoyancy_without_gravity.png|800px|link={{filepath:Buoyancy_without_gravity.png}}]]

[[File:Buoyant-Force-Equation.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Buoyant-Force-Equation.jpg}}]]

As you can see buoyancy includes gravity. The simpler explanations for children often use the term weight instead, which is mass times the acceleration due to gravity, so those also include gravity. You can't use buoyancy without a force for it to counteract. It doesn't specifically need to use gravity, any acceleration will do. For example you could use the acceleration caused by a centrifuge. The direction of the forces will be different, but a force is still required.

In a zero g environment, buoyancy doesn't work. As seen below in the experiment done by taikonauts on the Chinese space station.

[[File:Buoyancy_zero_g.png|500px|link={{filepath:Buoyancy_zero_g.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qEzdxLls5k <q>Taikonauts teach class on water buoyancy in absence of gravity<q> by CGTN]</ref>

I would like Owen to present his source explaining buoyancy without using gravity or weight, which is also using gravity.

=== Atmospheric pressure and gas pressure===
Flatzoid confuses atmospheric pressure and gas pressure.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2556 42:36 Flatzoid using gas pressure, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Gas pressure is specifically the pressure of gas inside a container exerting on the container walls. Atmospheric pressure on the other hand is the pressure caused by the weight of air being pulled towards Earth by gravity.

<blockquote>
The earth’s atmosphere exerts a pressure, as does any other gas. Although we do not normally notice atmospheric pressure, we are sensitive to pressure changes—for example, when your ears “pop” during take-off and landing while flying, or when you dive underwater. Gas pressure is caused by the force exerted by gas molecules colliding with the surfaces of objects (Figure 1). Although the force of each collision is very small, any surface of appreciable area experiences a large number of collisions in a short time, which can result in a high pressure. In fact, normal air pressure is strong enough to crush a metal container when not balanced by equal pressure from inside the container.
</blockquote><ref>[https://courses.lumenlearning.com/chemistryformajors/chapter/gas-pressure-2/ <q>Gas Pressure</q> by Lumen Learning]</ref>

[[File:Atmospheric_pressure.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Atmospheric_pressure.jpg}}]]

Pressure itself is a force over area. To have pressure you don't need a container, just a surface, like the ground.

=== Gases defying gravity ===
One of Flatzoid's fans claims that gases are not affected by gravity, which is simply not true.

[[File:gases_dont_fall.png|800px|link={{filepath:gases_dont_fall.png}}]]

For example an aluminium boat can float on sulphur hexafluoride. That shows that gases like everything else are also being pulled down towards earth and that they also exert buoyancy.

[[File:Air_boat.png|500px|link={{filepath:Air_boat.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZwkNDOhNzA <q>This Boat Floats On Air! | Xploration DIY SCI<q> by Da Vinci Kids]</ref>

The difference is that gases are generally at higher altitudes as they are less dense than people. Let's use a density tower as an example.

[[File:Density_tower.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Density_tower.webp}}]]

Let's say the cherry tomato represents a human. Essentially the argument used is that the ping pong ball is not being pulled down, because it goes up when placed at the same height as the tomato.

[[File:Gravity_and_buoyancy.png|800px|link={{filepath:Gravity_and_buoyancy.png}}]]

Just like the ping pong ball is still being pulled down by gravity, despite being higher than the cherry tomato, gases are being pulled down despite being higher than humans. He seems to understand it when it comes to boats and water, but not when it comes to gases. Gases are affected by the same forces as liquids. The difference is that gases tend to mix and are more easily dispersed.

When removing the water the boat goes down because you remove the upwards force of buoyancy. Funny that by removing buoyancy, objects continue to go down, as if there is a downwards force...

=== Natural law ===
Flatzoid claims that thermodynamics is a natural law.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2942 49:02 Flatzoid and natural law, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

A natural law is a philosophical term it has nothing to do with physics including thermodynamics.
<blockquote>
The term “natural law” is ambiguous. It refers to a type of moral theory, as well as to a type of legal theory, but the core claims of the two kinds of theory are logically independent.
</blockquote><ref>[https://iep.utm.edu/natlaw/ <q>Natural Law</q> by Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]</ref>

He might confuse them with laws of nature<ref>[https://iep.utm.edu/lawofnat/ <q>Laws of Nature</q> by Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]</ref>, which are used in metaphysics. Even that doesn't apply, as the laws of thermodynamics are scientific laws.

=== Ideal gas laws ===
Flatzoid claims that the ideal gas laws require a container, which is simply not true. He even made a presentation about it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2730 45:30 Flatzoid's thermodynamics presentation, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> There are often depictions of containers to describe the laws, but none of them ever states that they only work within a container. No Flatzoid, volume doesn't mean there is a container.

The Kinetic Molecular theory, also specifically only applies to ideal gases.

<blockquote>
The theory applies specifically to a model of gas called an ideal gas. An ideal gas is an imaginary gas whose behavior perfectly fits all the assumptions of the kinetic-molecular theory. In reality, gases are not ideal, but are very close to being so under most everyday conditions.
</blockquote><ref>[https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Introductory_Chemistry/Introductory_Chemistry_(CK-12)/13%3A_States_of_Matter/13.01%3A_Kinetic_Molecular_Theory <q>Kinetic Molecular Theory</q> by Libretexts.org]</ref>

The atmosphere is not an ideal gas, so the ideal gas laws don't even apply.

Something being ideal means that it's the way people want it to be. It's generally a simplified version of reality. For example, ignoring friction and air resistance are commonly used to idealize calculations about motion. For ideal gas laws, the collisions are idealized to be perfectly elastic, which is never actually the case. Furthermore they also ignore the effects of other forces like gravity.

So, using something ideal, is generally something that doesn't happen that way in reality.

=== Dynamic and Ideal Systems ===
Flatzoid thinks that we either live in a dynamic or an ideal system.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=3249 54:09 Flatzoid not understanding dynamic systems, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Ideal systems and dynamic systems are not mutually exclusive. A dynamic system is basically a system that keeps changing over time. It can be ideal or not ideal. The opposite for a dynamic system would be a static system, which as well can be ideal or not ideal.

The ideal gases for example are dynamic. It's already dynamic by changing one variable over time. Charles's Law for example changes the temperature, which leads to a change in pressure and volume of the gas.

=== Transfer of energy of gases ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that gases also transfer heat.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's no transfer of energy from a gas molecule to a container.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=3397 56:37 Flatzoid not understanding convection, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Gas can transfer heat by convection. That's how radiators heat up houses. Furthermore, you can also increase the temperature of a container by increasing the pressure. Simply use a bicycle pump, block the valve and compress the air. The pump will heat up.

=== 9.8 m/s^2 only in a vaccuum ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Well 9.8 m/s squared is actually only in a vacuum.
</blockquote>

That is as usual not true. What happens in air for example is the addition of air resistance. The acceleration of the mass is still the same, there is simply another force acting on the object.

There is a simple experiment that everyone can do to show that.
# Use a ball or any object that floats.
# Measure its weight.
# Put a bowl filled with water, large enough for the ball, on the scale.
# Reset the scale, so the weight of the bowl and the water are ignored.
# Put the ball in the bowl.
# Measure its weight again.

The scale will show the same weight before and after putting the ball in the bowl, within a margin of error.

Technically using water does increase the gravitational attraction by a tiny amount, due to it having more mass than air, but a kitchen scale is nowhere near precise enough to pick that up.

=== Combustion Engine ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' What happens when, uh you cool, the cool air comes in and it heats up?

'''Wesley:''' Um do you know how they heat it up?

[...]

'''Flatzoid:''' With bang. [...] Spark and fuel make kaboom, heat up, pressure increase.

'''Wesley:''' You are wrong.

'''Flatzoid:''' Please show me a combustion engine without spark. Go ahead and, fuel ,go ahead and show me.

'''Wesley:''' You're right but it it pressurizes it first to heat it up.

'''Flatzoid:''' The cold air is denser so guess what happens. It fills up, and then you have heating it up due to the kaboom in the spark and the fuel, and it heats up and causes extra energy, so it heats up and it moves faster, and the pressure increases Wesley. That's why, that's why, it pushes, wait, that's why it pushes the piston which then moves the conrod, to move that little dinky car you are thinking of in your brain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/BRxxumMBpCo?t=8716 2:25:16 Flatzoid messing up combustion engines, <q>🔴 LIVE: 4 Hours, 4 Topics — You Choose the Discussion! | Flat Earth, Bible, Prophecy & More</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Of course when Flatzoid was called out for his mistake in the comments he denied it ever happened.

[[File:Flatzoid_engine.png|800px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_engine.png}}]]

To fulfill Flatzoid's request, a diesel engine is a combustion engine without spark.

How Stuff Works has a proper explanation of how combustion engines work. Both for Otto motors (see below)<ref>[https://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm <q>How Car Engines Work</q> by How Stuff Works]</ref> and diesel engines <ref>[https://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm <q>How Diesel Engines Work</q> by How Stuff Works]</ref>
<blockquote>
The piston is connected to the crankshaft by a connecting rod. As the crankshaft revolves, it has the effect of "resetting the cannon." Here's what happens as the engine goes through its cycle:

#The piston starts at the top, the intake valve opens, and the piston moves down to let the engine take in a cylinder full of air and gasoline. This is the intake stroke. Only the tiniest drop of gasoline needs to be mixed into the air for this to work. (Part 1 of the animation)
#Then the piston moves back up to compress this fuel/air mixture. Compression makes the explosion more powerful. (Part 2 of the animation)
#When the piston reaches the top of its stroke, the spark plug emits a spark to ignite the gasoline. The gasoline charge in the cylinder explodes, driving the piston down. (Part 3 of the animation)
#Once the piston hits the bottom of its stroke, the exhaust valve opens and the exhaust leaves the cylinder to go out the tailpipe. (Part 4 of the animation)

Now the engine is ready for the next cycle, so it intakes another charge of air and gas.
</blockquote>

=== Orbits ===
Luka had a discussion with Flatzoid's panel member Barry Ross about orbits. Flatzoid agrees with Barry.

<blockquote>
'''Barry Ross:''' Luka if gravity is a mass attracting mass, then why are we not attracted to other planets and the sun? Why have we not all bumped into each other yet?

'''PJ:''' Right?

'''Luka:''' Well, we have we have the mass of the earth to think for that mostly.

'''Barry Ross:''' So what's keeping the mass of the moon from to the mass of the earth, Luka?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4939 <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First, earth is attracted to the other planets and the sun. Earth and all the planets orbit the sun, as its attraction is so great. The attraction between the planets is relatively small, so unless they are close to each other they won't have much of an effect.

Neptune was discovered because of its gravitational effect on Uranus' orbit.

Gravity attracts objects near planets. When they are too slow they crash into earth, when they are to fast they move away from earth. At the right velocity, the object moves around, because gravity makes the object take a curved path. The university of Colorado has a nice Simulation to illustrate this.<ref>[https://phet.colorado.edu/sims/html/gravity-and-orbits/latest/gravity-and-orbits_all.html <q>Gravity and Orbits</q> by University of Colorado]</ref>

=== Perspective ===
Like literally every flerf, Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective. Perspective doesn't make objects appear below the horizon.

[[File:perspective.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:perspective.jpg}}]]
<ref>[https://flatearth.ws/perspective <q>Flat-Earth “Perspective” is not Real-World Perspective</q> by flatearth.ws]</ref>

== Globe ==
=== Flatzoid confuses East and West ===
When Critical Think had a discussion with a flerf friend, his friend stated that the sun is West of his position in Brisbane Australia, while it was South of Union Glacier.<ref>[https://youtu.be/6-Ij1lr5OKs?t=66 1:06 <q>Conversations with a flattie about the Sun.</q> by Critical Think]</ref> Flatzoid tried debunking it by confusing East and West. He took down his videos after [[Rachie 00000]] called him out.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPekiXVyKyw <q>Flatzoid Can't East And West</q> by Rachie 00000]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nGwR__Ww0w <q>Flat Earther Fails At Navigation Without Leaving The House</q> by Rachie 00000]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid-east-west.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-east-west.png}}]]

=== Flatzoid also doesn't understand South ===
In another live stream, Flatzoid demonstrates that he also doesn't understand how to travel South on the globe.<ref>[https://youtu.be/5A2rnhKYezI?t=9042 2:30:42 <q>Tomorrow's World Viewpoint thought nobody would notice the lie?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Flatzoid and the South pole ===
Flatzoid thinks that the existence of the South pole in reality is a straw-man, because the flat earth doesn't have a South pole. He also doesn't understand that 90° is not a single location on a flat earth. It's only a single location on the globe.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/tK81Jp_XTJk?t=3106 51:46 <q>The Pole is Duffy's new strawman</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Will Duffy asked him to point out where 90° South is on a map, which of course Flatzoid couldn't answer and just kept deflecting.<ref name="flatzoid south pole"/>

In case Flatzoid reads the wiki. The sign of Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station shows Antarctica as the continent it is on the globe.

[[File:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg}}]]

In another stream, Flatzoid's panel talks about there being seven South Poles and Flatzoid just accepts that as truth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=277 4:37 The seven poles, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Sun is North of Union Glacier? ===
While discussing The Final Experiment's observation of the Sun in Antarctica, Flatzoid referred to the Time and Date's map on their website for December 14, 2024, and said that since the Sun's icon was placed north of Antarctica on the map at local midnight, the participants of TFE were lying because they saw the Sun towards their South, as it should have been North of them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/tp4cssxfJd8?si=r5U1zvOnlQU-Bmj4&t=6296 1:44:56 <q>It's a Psyop 5k special</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The first mistake he made is that he use midnight UTC, which is not local midnight. At that time the sun is West of the TFE camp.

[[File:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png}}]]

Local Midnight is around 6:00 UTC.

[[File:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png}}]]

The second mistake is that he treated a [[Wikipedia:Cylindrical projection|cylindrical map projection]] as representative of globe geometry (just like flerfs do when claiming [[Flight paths|flight paths don’t work on a globe]]). This is so elementary as to be plainly dishonest.

On the globe the actual position of the sun is indeed South of Union Glacier at local midnight in the direction of Mount Rossman. The worst part is that Flatzoid actually knows that. He showed that in a [[Flatzoid#Flatzoid_confuses_East_and_West|previous stream]] where he confused East and West using Google Earth.

[[File:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png}}]]

In case Flatzoid complains about the compass in the top right corner showing North towards the left, that's because my position above the globe is slightly left of the South Pole. It's in the direction of South from the position of the TFE camp.

=== South Celestial Pole ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand how you can use the stars around a celestial pole to navigate.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you've ever used navigation with the Stars and stuff, which I have in the bush, yet you can't tell you're going exactly straight by following a star because the stars are following a circular path. You're following that that um that star you are following its circular path. So you think you're going straight but you're actually taking a circular path.

'''David Sanch:''' All right but we have latitude though. Like we talked about the 69 nautical miles you're able to go in a straight line from the North Pole of Polaris straight down one degree, one degree, one degree, all the way until you get to the equator correct, and stay in a straight line.

'''Flatzoid:''' The thing is Stars always travel east to west. Okay, you would agree that's taking a circular route.

'''David Sanch:''' Yeah, yeah, but you're you're not focusing on those Stars you're just focusing on Polaris.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, no, no, so if you no not Polaris I'm saying Stars so if you're focusing on following, let's say the Southern Cross which is taking, yeah a circular path east to west of the sky you are following that circular path you're not going straight.

'''David Sanch:'''No you want to just find what is rotating around and you go straight at that.

'''Flatzoid:''' So you're not taking a straight path so in other words it's taking...

'''Michael Khan:''' There's no star to look we we seen in itself that that thing that they say it's rotating around. There isn't a star there.

'''David Sanch:''' But you could, you could place your own imaginary Star right in the center and just travel towards that.

'''Michael Khan:''' You can because you you only see them rotating Stars when someone does a star Trail time lapse on a boat in South. You're not seeing Stars doing a circular motion.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, you don't don't long exposure you don't do long exposure to look at stars.

'''Michael Khan:''' Only Stars the probably use that Southern Cross for navigation itself like Flatzoid says they're constantly moving.

'''David Sanch:''' So you're you're saying there 100% is no South Celestial pole?

'''Flatzoid:''' No not as what the globe claims.

'''Michael Khan:''' No cuz I know flat there.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah ceremonial there's no Geographic South Pole. Now David why you would like to disprove something which you can't.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/MeJmAv-Uv_Q?t=6107 1:42:15 Flatzoid and David talking about the celestial South Pole <q>Let's have a talk</q> (March 16) by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Here is a photo of the celestial South Pole taken at the South African Large Telescope.<ref>[https://www.salt.ac.za/galleries/photo-gallery <q>South Africa Large Telescope gallery</q>]</ref>

[[File:South-africa-star-trails.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:South-africa-star-trails.jpg}}]]

Flatzoid even explains how he doesn't understand the difference between the South Celestial Pole and the Pole Star.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The so-called south celestial pole you're talking about doesn't exist, because it's a globe claim. For a south celestial pole to exist means you got a globe with a north and a south axial tilt. There is no axial tilt of a globe, so therefore there is no south celestial pole. Now there is an observed observation seeming for the stars in the south to go around a point, which doesn't have a south celestial pole, because there is no south celestial pole uh star. To say they've assigned it to the closest uh star would be Sigma Octantis, which is hardly visible anyway. Um so this is again him just ignoring all these things told to him before, and yes you are able to have those observations because if it's a reflection from the north to the south on the dome. You will see the inverse which is the same as seeing it in the opposite direction as you call it, which is practically just you not understanding that direction is always east to west, but your perception on your location gives you appears to be right to left or left to right. It's always the same operation.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zTOsyaAO80 Flatzoid confusing the South Celestial pole with the pole star <q> A very confused man explains something he doesn’t understand. ‪@CrealityPodcast‬ </q> by Eduardo Igirisu 6]</ref>

A celestial pole is the point around which the stars appear to move around. There are two, directly above the geographic North and South Pole. A polestar is a star that's closest to the celestial pole.

[[File:Celestial_poles.png|400px|link={{filepath:Celestial_poles.png}}]]

=== Star location ===
He is also claiming that the stars didn't change over the millenia.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=944 15:44 Flatzoid claiming that the stars don't change, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> That of course is another lie. The stars did change over the years. Their positions are recorded in nautical almanacs<ref>[https://www.thenauticalalmanac.com <q>Nautical Almanacs</q>]</ref>, which Flatzoid of course never opened.

Polaris for example moved.
<blockquote>
* 1850: 88° 30′ 35.28″ with an annual movement of 19.27″
* 1900: 88° 46′ 26.72′ with an annual movement of 18.762″
* 2017: 89° 20.3′ annual movement is listed elsewhere in the almanac.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://mctoon.net/polaris <q>Polaris motion</q> by MCToon]</ref>

The question which he will never attempt to answer is, how does he know what position the stars were a thousand or so years ago? At best we get an answer like <q> Look at the stars</q>.

=== Predictions ===
Flatzoid thinks that falsifying a prediction from the globe, which he hasn't managed to do yet, proves a flat earth. Of course when any flat earth prediction fails, he just ignores it. He probably knows that any prediction done using a flat earth will immediately be falsified.

[[File:Flatzoid_predictions.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_predictions.png}}]]

=== North Pole and South Pole ===
Flatzoid thinks the Poles are defined by an universal Up and Down for the globe.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know what's also funny? Guys has always claimed there's no up and down on the globe, but why do, why is there a thing called the North Pole and the South Pole?
</blockquote>

The poles are defined by the axis of rotation.
<blockquote>
The poles of astronomical bodies are determined based on their axis of rotation in relation to the celestial poles of the celestial sphere.[...]

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) defines the north pole of a planet or any of its satellites in the Solar System as the planetary pole that is in the same celestial hemisphere, relative to the invariable plane of the Solar System, as Earth's north pole.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_of_astronomical_bodies <q>Poles of astronomical bodies</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

North doesn't mean up and South doesn't mean down.

=== Glaciers are not on land ===
Flatzoid thinks that glaciers aren't on land.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Maybe, um maybe Mr Duffy doesn't do his homework, like he claims to do. Union Glacier is a glacier it's not Antarctica.

'''SSUM:''' right

'''Flatzoid:''' It's ice. You're on a glacier. You're on a big block of ice.

'''???:''' Like a plateau, a giant plateau.

'''Flatzoid:''' you have to go deeper to reach Antarctica. Actually they claim it's part of Antarctica but it's just the outer edges, the how can I put it, the Stup.

'''SSUM:''' The shoreline.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah the shoreline. The, the Ice, yeah, it's not actually the land.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/GEmFjWYn1Cs?t=3690 1:01:30 Flatzoid confusing icebergs and glaciers, <q>TFE shows more fakery?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Glaciers are ice masses on land.

<blockquote>
A glacier (US: /ˈɡleɪʃər/; UK: /ˈɡlæsiə/ or /ˈɡleɪsiə/) is a persistent body of dense ice, a form of rock, that is constantly moving downhill under its own weight. A glacier forms where the accumulation of snow exceeds its ablation over many years, often centuries. It acquires distinguishing features, such as crevasses and seracs, as it slowly flows and deforms under stresses induced by its weight. As it moves, it abrades rock and debris from its substrate to create landforms such as cirques, moraines, or fjords. Although a glacier may flow into a body of water, it forms only on land and is distinct from the much thinner sea ice and lake ice that form on the surface of bodies of water.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier <q>Glacier</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

Furthermore, Union Glacier is over 700 km away from the closest shoreline.

[[File:Union_glacier_location.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union_glacier_location.png}}]]

=== Not seeing Polaris ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The reason I can't see Polaris from my house is because I got a mountain around me.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=9097 2:31:37 Flatzoid talking about Polaris being blocked by mountains, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Even without mountains, Polaris is not visible in South Africa, but the celestial South Pole is.

=== Star rotation ===
Flatzoid had a discussion with Luca about the stars direction changing depending on the hemisphere.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TWRYniB1k40?t=7389 2:03:09 Flatzoid not understanding change in direction, <q>TFE The Final Experiment faked? Talk</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Trying to prove his point, Flatzoid brought up a video of a ceiling fan, which kept rotating clockwise, no matter which direction he looked at. It didn't change from clockwise to anticlockwise as we observe the stars do when moving to the other hemisphere.

=== Stopping the earth ===
Flatzoid thinks that earth is not moving, because in the bible it says that God stopped the sun. He presented a clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson explaining what would happen if the earth suddenly stopped moving, and thinks because no one was flung around in the bible story, that it is evidence of earth being stationary.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=326 5:26 Flatzoid claiming the earth stopped moving because of the bible, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Joshua 10:12-13 (KJV):''' Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua%2010&version=KJV <q>Joshua 10 KJV</q> by Biblegateway]</ref>

That story simply never happened. Even if we assume that earth is stationary other cultures at the time would have noticed the sun standing still and recorded it.

When Luca told them that story didn't happen, Barry Ross interjected by asking if Luca was there and saw if it didn't happen.

<blockquote>
'''Barry Ross:''' Were you there to see that it didn't stop? Is that what you're telling me? You were you there that it it didn't stop happening because you were there?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=787 13:07 Barry Ross, Were you There? <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Twilight ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that the sky is illuminated before the ground during a sunrise.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know what I find interesting, guys? If you look in the distance there where the sunlight is, okay, doesn't the light seem very high to you? You know, we look at brightest part of it is like looks like it's above the cloud.

'''PJ:''' Yeah. Because it is

'''Flatzoid:''' And I've always seen this and um it's weird because they claim the sun is below the horizon. That means down.

'''Someone on Flatzoid's panel:''' Yeah.

'''Flatzoid:''' Why would it be lighter higher up? You know, almost like the sun is actually up but it's just far away.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/h_-Wfk9y1No?t=2293 38:13 Flatzoid not understanding twilight, <q>Flat Earth Sunrise?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<q>Explaining Science</q> has a nice explanation for that. in this case it's for a sunset, not a sunrise, but it's the same principle just in the opposite order.
<ref>[https://explainingscience.org/2016/10/09/twilight/ <q>Twilight</q> by Explaining Science]</ref>

[[File:Sunaftersunset.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sunaftersunset.png}}]]

<blockquote>
Twilight is caused by light from the Sun being scattered by the Earth’s atmosphere after the Sun has set (or before it has risen in the morning). If we look at the diagram above, it shows the Sun’s rays at sunset (shown as A) illuminating a point on the Earth’s surface marked with a small green “x”. After the Sun has set (B), the Sun’s rays cannot reach x directly because the Sun is below the horizon. However, they can still reach the upper atmosphere high above the Earth’s surface. When the Sun’s rays hit the very thin air in the upper atmosphere, most of them pass through. However a small percentage of the rays interact with air molecules. When this happens the air molecules scatter sunlight in all directions giving the sky a faint glow. The mechanism for this is described in more detail in a previous post Why is the Sky Blue? As the Sun moves further below the horizon its rays can only reach the very uppermost reaches of the atmosphere, shown as C in the diagram. Here the air is very very thin and so the percentage of the Sun’s light scattered by the atmosphere is very small, so the sky glow gets much much fainter. As the sky gets darker and darker twilight gradually fades into darkness.
</blockquote>

=== Seeing Himalaya from Dubai ===
Flatzoid showed a video which he thinks shows the Himalayas shown from Dubai.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' This is just an ordinary person saying look at the mountains from Dubai.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/bQKP4oqjo6E?t=2999 49:59 Flatzoid thinking the Himalayas were filmed from Dubai, <q>Why the globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If you read the video description, it states that the plane was in Nepal at the time, not Dubai.
<blockquote>
From the moment we entered Nepalese airspace, the view was absolutely magical — snow-capped peaks, endless mountain ranges, and clear blue skies. This video captures the best window seat view on one of Asia’s most scenic routes.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZWRNJwemE0&lc=UgzPLaP72JXlN10TRaB4AaABAg <q>Flydubai Flight to Kathmandu | Stunning Window View of the Himalayas from Dubai to Nepal 🏔️</q> by Poppy Gee Travels]</ref>

Flatzoid literally just read the title and concluded that the mountains were seen from Dubai.

== Moon ==
=== Moon's shape through observation ===
Faltzoid doesn't understand that you can determine the shape of the moon through observation.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' How did they establish first of all that the moon was physically a sphere? Maybe it looks spherical and it looks like there's a shadow on it but can you really claim that is, what it is or does it just seem to look that way?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=483 8:03 Flatzoid not understanding moon observations <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Yes Flatzoid, you can determine an objects shape by looking at it, unless you want to discard all your "Earth looks flat, therefore it must be flat" claims.

There is something called Lunar Libration, where you can see that the moon is indeed a sphere.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGAkvpOzc1k <q>Moon time lapse 4K - Lunar libration.</q> by AGAS360 Akasha Gange Astronomers Sirsi]</ref>

<blockquote>
In lunar astronomy, libration is the cyclic variation in the apparent position of the Moon that is perceived by observers on the Earth and caused by changes between the orbital and rotational planes of the moon. It causes an observer to see slightly different hemispheres of the surface at different times. It is similar in both cause and effect to the changes in the Moon's apparent size because of changes in distance. It is caused by three mechanisms detailed below, two of which cause a relatively tiny physical libration via tidal forces exerted by the Earth. Such true librations are known as well for other moons with locked rotation.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration <q>Libration</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

=== Moon orientation ===
Flatzoid accidentally debunked the flat earth. He showed that the moon in South Africa is rotated, like the globe predicts, but not any flat earth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=5153 1:25:53 Flatzoid showing the moons orientation depends on your location, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> On a flat earth with a close and local moon, it would be possible to see the moon from different sides, depending on your position. Yet in reality everyone sees the same side of the moon with only a slight change in angel.

[[File:Upside-down-moon.png|600px|link={{filepath:Upside-down-moon.png}}]]

=== Lunar eclipses ===
Flatzoid claims that predicting lunar eclipses isn't globe based just because people were able to predict them centuries ago.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=898 14:58 Flatzoid claiming that lunar eclipses are not based on the globe, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> As usual no flerf will ever present a working mechanism for how a lunar eclipse is possible on a flat earth. He is also completely ignoring that the people at the time at best predicted the date, but not the exact time and location. It's more drastic for solar eclipses, as unlike the lunar eclipses, solar eclipses are only visible for a small part of Earth.

Also, Flatzoid himself said that the [[Flatzoid#Predictions | flat earth doesn't make predictions]]. Therefore the predictions can't come from a flat earth.

Flatzoid doesn't realize that the exposure was different when the moon eclipsed. So the moon appeared brighter.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=5264 1:27:44 Flatzoid not noticing the different exposure setting, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Lunar-eclipse.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lunar-eclipse.png}}]]

It's funny that for Flatzoid a slight adjustment is deception when Danny Faulkner does it, but when Dave Weiss rotated the camera by a lot more it's just accepted as valid. Bob the Science Guy shows that in his video.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vf_inssV3k <q>Does the Eclipse Shadow Disprove the Globe???</q> by Bob the Science Guy]</ref>

Here is an illustration showing how the shadow on the moon should look like according to the globe. Of course no flerf will ever show how it's supposed to look like on a flat earth, or how a lunar eclipse is even possible.

[[File:Lunar-eclipse-2025.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lunar-eclipse-2025.png}}]]

=== Dark side of the moon ===
Flatzoid thinks the dark side of the moon means that it's always dark.

[[File:moon_dark_side_flatzoid.png|500px|link={{filepath:moon_dark_side_flatzoid.png}}]]

NASA has a nice animation illustrating how the different phases of the moon throughout the year.<ref>[https://moon.nasa.gov/resources/429/the-moons-orbit-and-rotation/ <q>The moon's orbit and rotation</q> by NASA]</ref> The frame from the animation shows the "dark" side of the moon being illuminated.

[[File:moon_dark_side.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:moon_dark_side.jpg}}]]

=== Lunar Phases ===
Flatzoid thinks the moon should be fully illuminated.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The point is Luca if you have a light source, let's say my hand is the sun light source and you have the moon, and it's reflecting the whole thing should be lit up.

'''Luca:''' Yeah at least half of the moon should be lit up.

'''Flatzoid:''' Right, and it's not fully lit up. So therefore the sun is not causing the light on the moon.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=227 3:47 Flatzoid not understanding lunar phases, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Only the side facing the sun is lit up as predicted by the heliocentric model.<ref>[https://philschatz.com/astronomy-book/contents/m59788.html <q>Phases and Motions of the Moon</q> by Philschatz]</ref>

[[File:lunar_phases.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:lunar_phases.jpg}}]]

Flatzoid is so dumb he even thinks that the shadow on the moon is from Earth.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Is the earth blocking the moon Wesley? Is the Earth blocking the moon?

'''Wesley:''' Nope never said it was.

'''Flatzoid:''' So how the hell is it getting a shadow then without the Earth blocking the moon?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=1516 25:16 Flatzoid not understanding lunar phases, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The shadow on the moon is from the moon itself, just like he showed himself using a ball and a light.<ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=710 11:50 Flatzoid showing lunar phase, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!” </q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:flatzoid_half_moon.png|600px|link={{filepath:flatzoid_half_moon.png}}]]

== Aviation ==
=== Flatzoid doesn't understand down ===
Flatzoid reviews the discussion between Will Duffy and Wolfie6020. Wolfie explains the direction of down and what horizontal is on the globe.<ref>[https://youtu.be/fcFMB1YW-mM?t=5433 1:30:33 Flatzoid misunderstanding down and horizontal on the globe, <q>Wolfie attempts to help Duffy cope</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Flatzoid demonstrates once again that he doesn't understand up and down or aviation even when it has literally been explained to him a few seconds before. He thinks that all horizontals are parallel and that the pitch data has to change when flying around the globe.

[[File:Flatzoid_down.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_down.png}}]]

=== Gyroscopes and Artificial Horizon ===
At the same time in the video as for the previous claim, Flatzoid also claims that gyroscopes are set at the start airport and then just keep their orientation. At the end of the discussion between Will and Wolfie, Wolfie shows that the gyroscopes adjust to gravity.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Wdc0WZuwJz8?t=2777 46:17 Wolfie explaining artificial horizon, <q>Aviation Proves the Globe! A Chat with Wolfie6020 (a REAL pilot!)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Flatzoid didn't even get to that part of the video.

WheresWally made a video explaining Flatzoid's wrong understanding of the pitch data.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KApmjXH0Tq0 WheresWally explaining pitch data, <q>fKatZoid's Jerkle's 11 Fails Interstanding Pitch Data as Will and Wolfie Destroy FE Claims</q> by WheresWally]</ref>

Dave McKeegan also made a video explaining pitch data.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQceCzKX-E <q>Flat Earthers prove Flat Earth ... by not understanding airplanes</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

=== Basics of flying ===
For information about aeronautics in general, the FAA has a great handbook about the topic.<ref>[https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak <q>Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge</q> by FAA]</ref> Flatzoid of course never opened any book about aeronautics.

Flatzoid thinks that the mass of an aircraft doesn't matter once the plane is in the air. He really doesn't have a clue about aviation.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you know how a plane works Duffy. It's not going to worry about the weight of the plane because it's already in the air. It's just basically a dance of thrust, thrust and friction to keep it up in the air. That's all it is. The only time you worry about weight on a plane is takeoff. That's where you got to worry about it because you wouldn't be able to take off if it's too heavy. So Duffy doesn't have a clue how planes work, does he?

'''???:''' And a plane would has to create a lift effect to start with.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, and the reason they don't take that into account is because it's got nothing to do with what they are training for they're training to fly yeah they pl they're training to fly over the earth which is a non-moving flat plane.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/0Zjal_r48YM?t=10267 Flatzoid not understanding flight, <q>Griffin TAKES DOWN Duffy in Heated Showdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRyLwu3zQHE <q>Aviation ignoramus explains flight.</q> by Eduardo Igirisu 6‬]</ref>

Flatzoid should actually learn what he is talking about. He really is top left personified. No clue about anything while thinking he knows everything.

The FAA has a very thorough explanation about the aerodynamics of flight.<ref>[https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/07_phak_ch5_0.pdf <q>Aerodynamics of Flight</q> by FAA]</ref>

<blockquote>
The four forces acting on an aircraft in straight-and-level, unaccelerated flight are thrust, drag, lift, and weight. They are defined as follows:
* Thrust — the forward force produced by the powerplant/propeller or rotor. It opposes or overcomes the force of drag. As a general rule, it acts parallel to the longitudinal axis. However, this is not always the case, as explained later.
* Drag — a rearward, retarding force caused by disruption of airflow by the wing, rotor, fuselage, and other protruding objects. As a general rule, drag opposes thrust and acts rearward parallel to the relative wind.
* Lift — is a force that is produced by the dynamic effect of the air acting on the airfoil, and acts perpendicular to the flight path through the center of lift (CL) and perpendicular to the lateral axis. In level flight, lift opposes the downward force of weight.
* Weight — the combined load of the aircraft itself, the crew, the fuel, and the cargo or baggage. Weight is a force that pulls the aircraft downward because of the force of gravity. It opposes lift and acts vertically downward through the aircraft’s center of gravity (CG).
</blockquote>

[[File:Airplane_forces.png|400px|link={{filepath:Airplane_forces.png}}]]

=== Level flight ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' We can prove based on the evidence they don't do any as in any change because they're flying level. Okay, that is evidence that there's no curve.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4725 1:18:45 Flatzoid not understanding level flight, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Level flight means that the plane keeps its altitude. On the globe that means it's going to follow a level line, which is curved. Staying at the same level is the same as following the curve. It won't show up in the pitch data, because the pitch is relative to the local vertical.

[[File:Dave_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Dave_level.png}}]]

== Cameras ==
=== Lens flares ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that the lens flares will be the same after 24 hours when using the same camera pointed at the sun at the same angle, which is the case when the camera is mounted on a rotating tripod.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkqf9rQzy8 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares, <q>WIll Duffy Lied about the 24 Hour sun video again!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Lensflares.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lensflares.png}}]]

He also doesn't understand that different lenses result in different flares.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2324 38:44 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares again, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The point I'm trying to make now is, look at the sun specifically. How it looks okay and we can compare it to actual footage from Antarctica, that's practically how it looks, but the ones we saw from their 24hour time lapses and stuff doesn't look like that.
</blockquote>

For comparison, here is a frame from the TFE trailer.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PFKCnrcT8 <q>The Final Experiment Documentary - Official Trailer</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_trailer.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_trailer.png}}]]

And one from Dave McKeegan's 24h timelapse.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M <q>Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_timelapse.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_timelapse.png}}]]

=== Apollo Films ===
Flatzoid thinks that the films used during Apollo can't be used in a vacuum.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=1659 27:39 Apollo Film in a vacuum, <q>https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=1659</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> He relies on the information given by the Apollo Detectives.<ref>[https://www.aulis.com/vacuum.htm <q>Apollo Film Subjected to a Vacuum - updated</q>]</ref>

Dave McKeegan made a video about the topic explaining the problems with the experiments.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLXHrQ1Keac <q>Debunking Gary Fong/Apollo Detectives - Cameras CAN work on the moon</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

In short, the problems are:
* Different film
* Different development method
* Exposing the film to harsher conditions than the actual Apollo film
* The film for the Apollo mission was in a magazine, theirs wasn't

[[File:Hasselblad_magazine.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Hasselblad_magazine.jpg}}]]<ref>[https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/film-magazine-hasselblad-70mm-apollo-11-lunar-surface/nasm_A19980009000 <q>Film Magazine, Hasselblad, 70mm, Apollo 11, Lunar Surface</q> by Smithsonian]</ref>

The mindset of moon landing deniers is so weird. They believe that NASA has the technology and ingenuity to be able to fake the moon landings, while at the same time can't even develop a camera capable of taking photos in space.

=== Underwater Cameras ===
Flatzoid thinks they don't use film cameras underwater.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=3651 1:00:51 No underwater film cameras, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

One of the first underwater cameras using film was the Nikonos from the 1960s.<ref>[https://imaging.nikon.com/imaging/information/chronicle/history-nikonos/ <q>Evolution of NIKONOS<q> by Nikon]</ref>

[[File:History7_nikonos_1.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:History7_nikonos_1.jpg}}]]

== Language ==
=== Community member ===
Flatzoid thinks he needs to apply to be a member of the flat earth community.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11259 3:07:39 Flatzoid not understanding community, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Is anybody a member of the flat earth?

'''Janusz:''' Nope

'''Roger Ledwell:''' Where do we join, where do we join, where do we sign up?

'''PJ:''' I didn't say anything not a thing, I didn't pledge anything, didn't say anything. Nothing, I don't pledge allegiance to the flat earth.
</blockquote>

=== Insinuate ===
In his live stream <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q><ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=15612 4:21:00 <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, a person called Frank told Flatzoid, how he was insinuating that Lisbeth is the village bicycle. Flatzoid's counter to that is that he didn't directly say the words: <q>Lisbeth is the village bicycle</q>. That demonstrates that he does not understand the word insinuate.

[[File:Insinuate.png|500px|link={{filepath:Insinuate.png}}]]

=== Airplane ===
According to Flatzoid airplanes are called that, because they are flying over a flat earth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/ijBUx-Ro48M?t=358 5:58 Flatzoid not understanding the word airplane <q>Bob The Science Guy's Pitch Data Excuse</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You fly over a plane, yeah. It's called a aeroplane for a reason.
</blockquote>

The word aeroplane actually comes from the shape of the wings.<ref>[https://www.etymonline.com/word/aeroplane Etymology of aeroplane by etymonline]</ref>

<blockquote>
aeroplane(n.)

1866, originally in reference to surfaces such as shell casings of beetle wings, from French aéroplane (1855), from Greek-derived aero- "air" + stem of French planer "to soar," from Latin planus "level, flat" (from PIE root *pele- (2) "flat; to spread").

The word was later extended to the wing of a heavier-than-air flying machine. The use of the word in reference to the machine itself is first attested 1873 and probably is an independent coinage in English. Also see airplane. Ancient Greek had a word aeroplanos, but it meant "wandering in the air," from planos "wandering" (see planet).
</blockquote>

=== Earth shape debate ===
Flatzoid thinks that a debate about Earth's shape means that it's a debate about biblical cosmology.<ref>[https://youtu.be/NnAjU6-Z2W4?t=2302 38:22 Flatzoid not understanding the topic of the debate, <q>The Shape of the Earth Showdown Debate review // Will Duffy vs KIC / Sean Griffin</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhMJhgtvVcY Flatzoid not understanding the topic of the debate, <q>severe topic creep ‪@CrealityPodcast‬ #crealitism #staunchlyStupid #gottaDerp2Flerf</q> by Jack of all Trades]</ref>

=== Synonymous ===

<blockquote>
'''Dave in the video:''' It seems flatearthers are conflating level and horizontal.

'''Flatzoid:''' It's literally synonymous with each other. Can anybody tell me what does synonymous mean? It's literally synonymous with each other. And he's trying to say, "Oh, they're trying to conate conflate it." Um, you can't have one with the other. They literally are what we say synonymous. It's like saying, "I have a body and I have a right hand and a left hand." I can't have a right and a left hand if I don't have a body. Get it?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=967 16:07 Flatzoid not understanding synonymous, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

It looks like Flatzoid is confusing synonymous with dependent. Synonymous means that two words have the same meaning in a given context. In his example the hands require a body, according to him.

=== Elevation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' By the way, elevation means horizontal and flat and level. Elevation literally is altitude above level.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=1666 27:46 Flatzoid not understanding elevation, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> b< Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Elevation is the altitude above sea level, it doesn't mean horizontal, flat or level.

== Surveying ==
=== Curvature corrections ===
According to Flatzoid, surveyors account for curvature just because they believe it exists. Essentially he is saying that everyone who measures Earth is getting it wrong on purpose. Of course no measurements of Earth being flat exist.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=769 12:49 Flatzoid not understanding surveying, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If Earth was flat, curvature corrections wouldn't be used as that results in a wrong measurement of the terrain.

=== Geodetic Surveying is Planar Surveying stitched together ===
Flatzoid also claims that Geodetic Surveying is just linking together the measurements from Planar Surveying.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=1395 23:15 Flatzoid claiming geodetic surveying is a series of planar surveying, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You don't observe uh geodetic surveying because it's planar surveying done in sections that they link up. Just like what it said. So they're taking all the sections of um of um local measurements, okay, up to let's say 10 miles or whatever and they're just linking them together. That's all they're doing and then they take all those links and just lie them across a sphere. That's what they do but was it measured over a sphere? No it was measured flat and then calculated that all those linkages are curving over a sphere, where they get most, of that is like the Topography is not exactly straight and that's what I brought the Arc of the parallel up, because it's exactly that. It's just linkages of, let's just say you got a link like this. Okay. Then we're going to put another measurement which is another link you see it pulls out the distance further. Now these are two separate measurements, which are all flat measurements. Now they're taking that measurement. I wish I had a ball with me and they wrap it around a ball and say it's curved, but in the meantime they measured flat measurements. They link them together. That's all they do.
</blockquote>

If that was the case, surveyors would simply measure over larger distances without applying any curvature corrections. That would result in different measurements simply by measuring from the opposite side, as Earth is a sphere.

For example: Assuming we have two points A and B at the same elevation. If you measure point B from point A, point B will be lower than point A. It's the other way around when point A is measured from point B. Of course Flatzoid completely ignores any problems.

NOVATR explains the difference between geodetic surveying and plane surveying.<ref>[https://www.novatr.com/blog/plane-vs-geodetic-surveying <q>Difference Between Plane vs Geodetic Surveying: What to Use?</q> by NOVATR]</ref>

=== Level in Surveying ===
Flatzoid made an entire livestream about Earth being measured flat, where the only thing he does is to present the definitions of level and perpendicular, without presenting even a single measurement.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3BHTRqmo3E <q>Earth is measured Flat!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Since presenting definitions of level is apparently is good enough, MCToon<ref>[https://mctoon.net/level/ <q>What does level mean?</q> by MCToon]</ref> and Jesse Kozlowski<ref>[https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2020/02/19/definition-of-level/ <q>Definition of Level In Surveying Texts</q> by Jesse Kozlowski]</ref> both have a collection of definitions of the word level as used in surveying.

For example this one from <q>The Theory and Practice of Surveying; Containing All the Instructions requisite for the skillful practice of this Art.</q>, published 1814.
<ref>[https://archive.org/details/theorypracticeof00gibs/page/n5/mode/2up <q>The Theory and Practice of Surveying; Containing All the Instructions requisite for the skillful practice of this Art.</q> by Robert Gibson on archive.org]</ref>

[[File:Level-figure-from-theory-practive-of-surveying.png|500px|link={{filepath:Level-figure-from-theory-practive-of-surveying.png}}]]

A better illustration.

[[File:Level-surface-2.png|500px|link={{filepath:Level-surface-2.png}}]]

==== Flatzoid going over Dave's video about level ====
Flatzoid went over Dave McKeegan's video about level, and demonstrated that he is conflating horizontal and level.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II5V39oohck <q>Flat Earthers butcher 'Level'</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean, a building with different levels. Um, are those horizontals on top of each other?

'''PJ:''' Yeah.

'''Flatzoid:''' So, they're literally level with each other at different heights.

'''PJ:''' Is the example crossing.

'''Flatzoid:''' uh a train train track crossing by saying, "Oh, it's because it's a level crossing because they're um crossing at the same height." So level, horizontal, because it wouldn't help if the one was higher than the other, would it? Then it's not level. I've got news for him anyway. Railway is level from one end to other.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=515 8:35 Flatzoid not understanding level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Railways are not level from one end to the other, they go over hills and such. Even if earth was flat, the tracks aren't level everywhere.

He is getting the definition of level line wrong while looking at the definition.

[[File:Flatzoid_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_level.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' That is literally an oxymoron. You cannot have a curved level line. A level line literally by definition is horizontal, right?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=1821 30:21 Flatzoid not understanding level while looking at the definition of level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

As Flatzoid demonstrably will never understand, horizontal is the straight line, level is the curved line. They are only roughly the same over a short distance, so Flatzoid concludes they are the same over every distance, which is simply wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Because as soon as you're saying you are creating a horizontal line which is parallel to the surface of earth, there is no curve anywhere. And if you're claiming something is level, that means there can be no drop. That means the horizontal, he's literally claiming now the horizontal can curve.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=2191 36:31 Flatzoid confusing horizontal and level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Again, level is curving, horizontal is straight. They are not the same. Horizontal can be used for drop, while level is used for elevation.

Since Flatzoid likes to use Merriam Webster here is the definition of level for the context of earth's surface.

[[File:LEVEL_Definition_%26_Meaning_-_Merriam-Webster.png|700px|link={{filepath:LEVEL_Definition_%26_Meaning_-_Merriam-Webster.png}}]]

Flatzoid demonstrates once again that he is conflating level and horizontal. The line he drew is horizontal, not level.

[[File:Flatzoid_draw_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_draw_level.png}}]]
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=3643 1:00:43 Flatzoid not understanding level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Below you can see what a level line is. As anyone but Flatzoid and Co can see, this line is perpendicular to every vertical along the path.

[[File:Dave_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Dave_level.png}}]]

=== Earth measured curved ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Sean Hawkins says, "The Earth has been measured spherical for over 2,000 years." No, it hasn't. Has never been measured spherical once in existence. Has been calculated to make an radius value based on a flat Earth, but it's never been a measured sphere.

'''Michael Khan:''' Who measured it and how and what tools?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4068 1:07:48 Earth not measured spherical, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Every geodetic surveyor measures earth to be spherical as seen above. Furthermore it also has been measured spherical by amateur measurements organized by Sly Sparkane
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V03eF0bcYno <q>Flat Earth: Debunked</q> by Sly Sparkane]</ref>
and SciManDan
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSSaMNktHbU <q>Community Science Just Destroyed the Flat Earth</q> by SciManDan]</ref>.

== Maps ==
Gisgeography has a nice overview of map projections.<ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-projection-types/ <q>Map Projection Types</q> by Gisgeography]</ref><ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-projections/ <q>Map Projections</q> by Gisgeography]</ref> They also have a good explanation about coordinates <ref>[https://gisgeography.com/latitude-longitude-coordinates/ <q>Latitude Longitude Coordinates</q> by Gisgeography]</ref>, and compare the different distortions.<ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-distortion-tissots-indicatrix/ <q>Map Distortions</q> by Gisgeography]</ref>

=== Distances ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that every map has different distortions and thinks that all maps have the correct distances.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' My model and my map is every map in existence because all the distances comport with measurements of reality. There we go. So it doesn't matter which map you present, the distance is shown to comport with what's measured in reality. It doesn't make it a sphere or a triangle. What it does do is it shows it's measured flat.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=3832 1:03:52 Flatzoid not understanding map distortions, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If Earth was flat, only one world map can have all the correct distances. Since Earth isn't flat, the only model where all the distances are correct is the globe.

=== Grid ===
Flatzoid thinks that the grid on maps all have the same distance. That's of course not true. The distance between latitudes is the same, but not between the longitudes. The distance between the longitudes increases closer to the equator and decreases closer to the poles.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You see all these blocks. The coordinate systems. Okay. You see how they take those blocks and they lay them to each other on a map because it's a grid system. Those grid systems look how different they look. Okay. All those grids, but they all have the same distances allocated. Yeah. Why? Because the measurement is true, the distance is true, the layout is not. No. You just at the end of the day, you're just following a grid system that was measured over a flat horizontal plane.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=3902 1:05:02 Flatzoid not understanding the grid, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Latitude_longitude.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Latitude_longitude.jpg}}]]
<blockquote>
This cutaway drawing shows that the latitude and longitude of any place are based on the sizes of two angles that originate at the center of Earth.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/latitude <q>Latitude and longitude</q> by Britannica]</ref>

== Space Travel ==
=== Zip Ties ===
Flatzoid doesn't like NASA using simple solutions like zip-ties in space.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' It's exactly just like those, um I don't know if you remember those cable ties they used on, um Voyager, I think it was Voyager one, uh on Mars that rover. The cable ties they used on there they were plastic. Billions of dollars to produce to uh invent and stuff and it's literally just cable ties.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2405 40:05 Flatzoid complaining about zip-ties, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First, the rover in question is Curiosity or Perseverance, both use zip-ties. Second, the zip-ties are made of a sturdier plastic than the consumer grade ones.

<blockquote>
The zip ties intended for extraterrestrial use are made of Tefzel ETFE (ethylene-tetrafluoroethylene) resins designed for extreme temperatures, high UV levels, and 2,000 times more radiation than what you'd find in the standard plastic nylon version.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.sciencealert.com/no-this-photo-of-curiosity-isn-t-fake-here-s-why-nasa-uses-cable-ties-on-their-rovers <q>This Photo of Curiosity Is Real! Here's Why NASA Uses Zip Ties on Mars Rovers</q> by Sciencealert]</ref>

=== Airtight Zippers ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' "The zipper alone debunks this whole thing can anybody show me an airtight zipper, please."
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2559 42:39 Flatzoid talking about airtight zippers, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Airtight zippers exist, you can easily buy those. [http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/001299.html Here is a discussion about the zippers used during the Apollo missions.] The pressure difference on space suits is at most 1 bar, so there is no issue finding a suitable material. For comparison, a tire for a mountain bike is rated for 1.8 to 3.7 bar. The tires of racing bicycles go even higher, from 6.5 to 8 bar.

[[File:Apollozippers08-lg.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Apollozippers08-lg.jpg}}]]

Also, if airtight zippers didn't exist, how can they use the space suits to train in the neutral buoyancy lab?

=== Dust on the moon ===
Flatzoid complains that the camera couldn't take good photos on the moon, because of the dust.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' A camera lens even if it's exposed to dust and things can you take good pictures.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=4153 1:09:13 Flatzoid talking about moon dust, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

There is no air on the moon, so all the dust remains on the ground unless disturbed by the astronauts. On the other hand, if dust was such a problem, it would be a far greater problem if they faked in on Earth, where there actually is air to move the dust around.

He also complains about the dust penetrating the spacesuits.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah but that's the thing, the they moaned about the dust is so fine it actually gets through the fabric on their spacuits. [...] oh wow yeah yeah yeah now this air doesn't Yeah these these suits are supposed to be airtight but dust can get through.
</blockquote>

The dust is very sharp so it stuck on the spacesuits and also damaged them. The main problem was when the astronauts returned to the lander and the dust on their suits started floating in the lander.

=== Cooling on Spacecraft ===
Flatzoid and crew think that the ISS can't be temperature regulated because it's in a vacuum.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=7668 2:07:48 Flatzoid and crew talking about radiators, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For a full explanation you can read [https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/473486main_iss_atcs_overview.pdf Active Thermal Control System (ATCS) Overview] by Boeing.

=== Rotating helmet ===

Flatzoid was watching a clip from the Gemini missions where an astronaut turned their head.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You can't turn his head in that space suit. It's literally mechanically impossible.

'''Luca:''' What? Yes, you can.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, those space suits are made not to move that way.

'''Luca:''' How would you see?

'''Flatzoid:''' Your head moves, not the whole helmet.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/RzsulcyYYHI?t=4151 1:09:11 Flatzoid not understanding space suits, <q>Apollo Fakery EXPOSED | Was the Moon Landing Staged?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The documentation of the spacesuit clearly states that the helmet can rotate.<ref>[https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19660007653/downloads/19660007653.pdf <q>SPACE SUIT DEVELOPMENT STATUS</q> by NASA]</ref>

<blockquote>
The helmet-to-torso engagement was designed to permit the astronaut to connect the helmet to the torso without assistance in less than 5 seconds. The torso portion also contains a rotating bearing, permitting the astronaut to turn his head with relative ease.
</blockquote>

I don't even know how that's supposed to be an argument anyway. They would have used a rotating helmet whether the footage is real or fake.

=== Documenting the night sky on the moon ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why didn't they document the night sky while they were on the moon?
</blockquote>

They were on the moon during daytime. On the moon it's about 2 weeks day and 2 weeks night.

=== Pressure door ===
Flatzoid confuses the heat cover with the pressure door.

[[File:door_cover.png|500px|link={{filepath:door_cover.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Look at that's airtight. That's airtight dooring.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/RzsulcyYYHI?t=5112 1:25:12 Flatzoid confuses the cover with the pressure door, <q>Apollo Fakery EXPOSED | Was the Moon Landing Staged?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The actual door is seen directly before in the video, at the bottom of the frame.

[[File:actual_door.png|500px|link={{filepath:actual_door.png}}]]<ref>[https://youtu.be/m11IjUODi-c?t=110 1:50 Pressure door opened, <q>First Astronaut to Fly a Jet Pack in Space (When We Left Earth)</q> by Mike Killian]</ref>

=== ISS Harness ===
Flatzoid showed a clip of astronauts on the ISS claiming a guy in the background is wearing a harness.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=6323 1:45:23 Flatzoid and the harness, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

In the original video, you can see that it's clearly not a harness. It's better visible in the video than the frame.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/nael3k1LWSc?t=964 16:04 Harness on the ISS?, <q>NASA Space Station Crew Discusses Life in Space with Idaho Students and Educators</q> by NASA]</ref>

[[File:Harness.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Harness.jpg}}]]

It's amazing how much time flerfs spend looking through hours of ISS footage with plenty of things just floating around, like the blue cap, just to find a few seconds, where they claim people are wearing a harness.

Flatzoid even googled it, and of course Google told him that he is wrong.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=8942 2:29:02 Flatzoid googling if astronauts wear tethers inside the ISS, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
ChatGPT told him the same thing, and for some reason he thinks that debunks the ISS.

He then brings up the popular clip of an astronaut grabbing the pocket of his colleague.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=9405 2:36:45 ISS pocket grab, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Iss_pocket_grab.png|500px|link={{filepath:Iss_pocket_grab.png}}]]

Just like before when watching the full video in a higher resolution, you can see that Flatzoid is full of shit again.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV-X0NcG8Lc <q>STS-135 Flight Day 7 Interviews, Part 2</q> by NASA Johnson]</ref>

Even more damming, the video also shows the other astronauts floating in positions that don't work with harnesses. Not to mention the floating rings around the female astronaut's neck, and her floating hair. As usual, Flatzoid never watched the full video.

[[File:Iss_impossible_harness.png|500px|link={{filepath:Iss_impossible_harness.png}}]]

== Science ==
=== Independent Variable ===
Flatzoid thinks you can only have one independent variable in science.<ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt">[https://youtu.be/6DDD2Qoi_No?t=3239 53:59 Flatzoid talking about independent variables, <q>Gravity is made up? Prove Us Wrong?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> You can easily have multiple independent variables as some things are affected by more than one thing. For example the force during a collision depends on mass and acceleration. If you crash a car into a wall the resulting force depends on the acceleration and mass of the car. Increasing the mass or acceleration, or both, will increase the force. If one of them is 0 the force will also be 0.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Independent variable for bending space time is the distribution of mass and energy. So those are two two independent variables, it's independent, so it's not one single independent variable. So it's not science.

'''Luca:''' Things can have two independent variables.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, an independent variable is one. It's an independent.
</blockquote><ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt"/>

He asked ChatGPT about it, which told him that he is wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Question:''' What is an independent variable?

'''ChatGPT:''' An independent variable is a variable in an experiment or mathematical relationship that you change or control to see how it affects another variable known as the dependent variable.

'''Question:''' Can you have more than one independent variable for one cause?

'''ChatGPT:''' Yes, you can have more than one independent variable for a single cause in many scientific experiments and mathematical models. This is common in complex systems where multiple factors influence the same outcome.

'''Question:''' Can you have two independent variables for one experiment?

'''ChatGPT:''' Yes, you can have two or more independent variables in a single experiment. This is known as a "multifactorial" or "factorial" experiment.

'''Question:''' Would that be for causation or correlative aspects?

'''ChatGPT:''' Excellent question! Including multiple independent variables in a single experiment can be used for both causation and correlation, depending on the design and intent of the study.

'''Question:''' Do you only have one independent variable in a hypothesis?

'''ChatGPT:''' Not necessarily. While it's common to have a single independent variable in a simple hypothesis, it is not a strict rule. Many scientific studies and experiments involve multiple independent variables, especially in complex systems where different factors interact.
</blockquote><ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt"/>

To answer Flatzoid's question about how you can determine which independent variable (sunlight or water) caused the plant growth, is by simply comparing the results. You make different experiments, one with only sunlight, one with only water, and one with both. The one with both will grow the best. So the conclusion is that both water and sunlight affect plant growth.

Typical Flatzoid. He is so convinced that he must be correct that he just declares everyone else to be wrong.

=== Science is only concerned with how something happens ===
According to Flatzoid, science only cares about how something happens and not why.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' How is scientific because the how is what you're trying to work out. When it comes to science, you don't ask why it comes down to.

I observe a natural phenomenon. How did that work? How did that happen? So when you say why did that happen, that's just a philosoph philos philosophical philosophical question. So that's why you don't say why you say how.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=532 8:52 Flatzoid claiming asking why something happens is not scientific, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is, like virtually everything Flatzoid says, not true. Science is concerned with both how and why. The how are laws, and the why are theories.

Either way, flat earth doesn't even concern itself with how. It just declares that everything works on flat earth, without even an attempt of a model explaining the how.

== Fallacies ==
=== Begging the question ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand what it means to beg the question. In a live stream he saying that planets orbiting is begging the question.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=1930 32:10 Flatzoid thinking that planet orbiting is begging the question, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> It was observed long before Newton, that planets orbit the sun. It's not begging the question when he concluded that the forces are reciprocally as the squares of their distances from the center of their orbits.

As usual not even a hint of an explanation for flat earth.

An example of begging the question is Flatzoid calling TFE fake by asserting that it has to be, since like everything else, it doesn't work on a flat earth.

== Navigation ==
=== Circle of equal altitude ===
FTFE asked Flatzoid to show one citation that states that a circle of equal altitude is flat and level. The citation provided by Flatzoid appears at first glance to support that statement.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAn9LOu5oKY <q>So FTFE will you keep your word?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Altitude-intercept-method-flat.png|400px|link={{filepath:Altitude-intercept-method-flat.png}}]]

FTFE demonstrated that the same document presents that the previous diagram is just a simplification. Directly after it the circle of equal altitude is depicted on the curved surface of the globe.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAn9LOu5oKY 7:24, <q>Flatzoid/Failzoid - A Failure</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref> <ref>[https://documen.site/download/altitude-intercept-method_pdf# <q>Altitude-Intercept Method</q>]</ref>

[[File:Altitude-intercept-method-curve.png|400px|link={{filepath:Altitude-intercept-method-curve.png}}]]

Furthermore he demonstrates that he is incapable of measuring an angle on a curved surface.

[[File:Flatzoid_angle.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_angle.png}}]]

Even though it's very simply to do. It's even shown in the source he chose himself. Using a tangent is the way to measure an angle to a curve. Using a tangent doesn't mean that you don't measure the angle to a curve.

[[File:Elevation_angles.png|400px|link={{filepath:Elevation_angles.png}}]]

He reused the same diagram again.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=6203 1:43:23 Flatzoid lying about elevation angles again, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Sight_reduction.png|500px|link={{filepath:Sight_reduction.png}}]]

Of course his own source shows him to be wrong just one slide after.<ref>[https://www.slideserve.com/tamal/6-the-assumed-position-circle-of-equal-altitude-intercept <q>The art of celestial navigation chapter 6</q> by Slide Serve]</ref>

=== Nautical miles ===
According to Flatzoid nautical miles are defined as distance over the ocean and come from right angle triangles.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Nautical miles is defined as distance over the ocean.

'''Flatzoid:''' I'm saying do you know the math derived for your nautical miles on screen, literally comes from right angle triangles?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=5995 1:39:55 Flatzoid not understanding nautical miles, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is of course not true.

<blockquote>
'''NOAA:''' Nautical miles are used to measure the distance traveled through the water. A nautical mile is slightly longer than a mile on land, equaling 1.1508 land-measured (or statute) miles. The nautical mile is based on the Earth’s longitude and latitude coordinates, with one nautical mile equaling one minute of latitude.
</blockquote><ref>[https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/nautical-mile-knot.html <q>What is the difference between a nautical mile and a knot?</q> by NOAA]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Royal Museums Greenwich:''' The ‘standard’ nautical mile is taken as 6080 feet (1.151 statute miles or 1853 metres) and is the unit of length used in sea and air navigation.

A mile on land is equal to 5280 feet (1609.3 metres), while a sea or nautical mile is one-sixtieth of a degree of latitude, and varies from 6046 feet on the Equator, to 6092 feet at a latitude of 60°. This difference is due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere, but slightly flattened at the poles – an oblate spheroid. To avoid confusion, the standard nautical mile is accepted as 6080 feet.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/maritime-history/nautical-mile <q>What is a Nautical Mile</q> by Royal Museums Greenwich]</ref>

===Radar Horizon===
While reviewing Roger Ledwell's stream, specifically the part where FTFE presents what a radar horizon is, Flatzoid thinks that planes going beneath the radar debunks the globe.

<blockquote>
'''FTFE (in the video Flatzoid is watching):''' Um, figure one shows what a radar horizon is and how it would apply to aircraft. So, if there's aircraft close to the ground, they can literally go underneath the radar, which is a, you know, attack...

'''Flatzoid (interrupting):''' That debunks the globe, by the way.

'''SSUM:''' Yeah, of course it does.

'''Flatzoid:''' How do they go underneath the radar if the Earth curve stops the radar?

'''PJ:''' Yeah, they had to hit the Earth, wouldn't they? They run right into that wall.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/_lBT35vcIDk?t=6193 1:43:13 Flatzoid not understanding radar horizon, <q>Analyzing Roger Ledwell’s Debate Evening | Truth vs Error?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Planes go underneath the radar precisely because the earth curve stops the radar. Just like in the diagram that was on screen at that time.

[[File:Radar_horizon.png|600px|link={{filepath:Radar_horizon.png}}]]
<ref>[https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/ew-radar-handbook/radar-horizon-line-of-sight.htm <q>Electronic Warfare and Radar Systems Engineering Handbook Radar Horizon / Line of Sight</q> by rfcafe]</ref>

Arctic Reflections made a video about the radar.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp7cXE9uTWc <q>My comments on FTFE's discussion with Flatzoid about radar!</q> by Arctic Reflections]</ref>

=== Sextant ===
==== Chronometer ====
Flatzoid doesn't know what a chronometer is.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=1238 20:38 Flatzoid not understanding chronometers, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> He points at the part of the sextant that is used to adjust the angle more precisely. He thinks that the micrometer drum on a sextant is a chronometer.

[[File:Sextant_parts.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Sextant_parts.jpg}}]]

<blockquote>
'''The micrometer drum:''' While whole degrees are read directly from the arc, minutes of arc are read from the micrometer drum. Turning the micrometer drum screws the worm along the rack and permits fine adjustment of an observed angle or altitude.
</blockquote><ref>[https://maritimesa.org/nautical-science-grade-11/2020/10/20/parts-of-the-sextant/ <q>Parts of the sextant</q> by Maritime Studies South Africa]</ref>

He did notice it after continuing to read the article, and of course blamed Brenda for using the word chronometer instead of watch.

==== Double Reflection Principle ====
Flatzoid discussed sextants with Brenda, and thinks that the double reflection principle requires a flat earth.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The double reflection principle requires the earth to be flat.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=1887 31:27 Flatzoid not understanding double reflection principle, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Wikipedia ==
=== History of the state of Palestine ===

Flatzoid was presented with a link to Wikipedia and the title of an article he should read. Instead he ended up on the landing page and looked at the featured article, complaining that it isn't about Palestine.

[[File:Wikipedia.png|500px|link={{filepath:Wikipedia.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaDuTIIPtk <q>That’s not Palestine! 🤦‍♂️ #palestine #state #country #isreal #idf #jews</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Fake Bible Verses ==
Flatzoid likes the fake bible verses in his comment section. It started on 25th April 2025, he never realized it, but the accounts are likely blocked.

[[File:Fake_verse_01.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_01.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_02.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_02.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_03.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_03.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_04.png|600px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_04.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_05.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_05.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_06.png|600px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_06.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_07.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_07.png}}]]

== Captchas ==
When Flatzoid tried to change the site he failed against the captchas.<ref name="vandalzoid"/>

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha1.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha2.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha3.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha3.png}}]]

== Geology ==

=== Mountain Formation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's not one observed mountain ever created by moving tectonic plates ever in history.Do you know why?

'''Barry Ross:''' Same reason the sun and moon didn't stop moving because Lucas says so.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. Remember that's a book. Men wrote that book that made you believe tectonic plates caused the mountain to be created billions of years ago. Luca.

'''Luca:''' Well, the people that were there uh you know should be versed in that.

'''Flatzoid:''' But they wrote it's men that wrote that book. Correct?

'''Barry Ross:''' They're they they should be versed in the bullshit that they've recorded and regurgitated from the same books that they learned 20 years before that from the same ideas that everybody's just been putting down on a book and listening to and memorizing and regurgitating just like Luka is doing right now and calling it real.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1421 23:41 Flatzoid not understanding tectonic plates, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

One example of mountains created by plate tectonics is the Himalaya, which are still growing by about 1cm per year.<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/How-Are-Mountains-Formed <q>How Are Mountains Formed?</q> by Britannica]</ref>
<ref>[https://medium.com/@denariusdenr/moving-mountains-how-the-himalayas-grow-1cm-taller-every-year-e636bfee76dc <q>Moving Mountains: How the Himalayas Grow 1cm Taller Every Year</q> by Denarius]</ref>

===Earthquakes===
Flatzoid thinks that earthquakes are not caused by tectonic plates.

<blockquote>
'''Faltzoid:''' That is what earthquake is. It's movement of the land. Now that's not tectonic plates.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1853 30:53 Flatzoid not understanding earthquakes, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Earthquakes are caused by geological faults most of the time. Basically the tectonic plates moving causes enough force to shake the ground.

<blockquote>
'''Britannica:''' Earth’s major earthquakes occur mainly in belts coinciding with the margins of tectonic plates. This has long been apparent from early catalogs of felt earthquakes and is even more readily discernible in modern seismicity maps, which show instrumentally determined epicentres.

[...]

Earthquakes are caused by the sudden release of energy within some limited region of the rocks of the Earth. The energy can be released by elastic strain, gravity, chemical reactions, or even the motion of massive bodies. Of all these the release of elastic strain is the most important cause, because this form of energy is the only kind that can be stored in sufficient quantity in the Earth to produce major disturbances. Earthquakes associated with this type of energy release are called tectonic earthquakes.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/earthquake-geology <q>earthquake</q> by Britannica]</ref>

== Construction ==
=== Pyramids ===
Flatzoid and his panel think we can't build the pyramids nowadays.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0 0:00 Flatzoid and the pyramids <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
Just because we don't know how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids, does not mean we can't build pyramids. We would use modern methods like cranes and trucks, instead of the ancient methods that the Egyptians used.



= Masons and occult =
== Colors ==
=== Orange ===
According to Flatzoid wearing an orange shirt is a sign of being a mason.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=614 10:14 Danny Faulkner wearing an orange shirt, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But that's the thing he gets called out for his Masonic shirts he keeps wearing and he keeps wearing specifically his orange shirts. What does that tell you guys?
</blockquote>

Orange curtains are a Freemason ritual as well.<ref name=mason>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=2530 42:10 Flatzoid masonic rituals, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Those orange curtains are in the hotel in Punta Arenas, where they stayed. Does that mean the hotel is masonic?

[[File:Flatzoid_orange.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_orange.png}}]]

=== Blue and Red ===
Wearing blue or red is also masonic. <ref>[https://youtu.be/vPD-hUwrRtY?t=678 11:18 Witsit wearing a blue shirt, <q>To Question means you are not a truther!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' On Jeran's stream, which he (Austin Witsit) literally had the same time as him, he was on Jeran's stream, he was wearing a red hoodie and then straight after went to start his streaming wearing a blue hoodie and that is again guys, sorry to say, linked to Freemasonry.
</blockquote>

[[File:Flatzoid_red_shirt.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_red_shirt.png}}]]
[[File:Flatzoid_blue_shirt.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_blue_shirt.png}}]]

== Putting your right hand on the bible ==
According to Flatzoid putting your right hand on the bible is a masonic ritual.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vPD-hUwrRtY?t=1314 21:54 Witsit putting his right hand on the bible, <q>To Question means you are not a truther!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But you see the problem with what Witsit did now? Put, placing the right hand on the Bible is a um Authority Passage through Mas, Masonic, uh masonry. It's literally a masonic um ritual that you do to to show you have authority.
</blockquote>

== Nipples on ice ==
Taking a group photo with some people being topless is also masonic, according to Flatzoid or his viewers.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=452s 30:31 Dave McKeegan explaining the topless group photo, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

[[File:Mason_checker.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_checker.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The problem with that is it's based on a Mason ritual. Especially the the check, cuz it's shirt off, shirt on, shirt off, shirt on, and that's why everybody is saying, yeah it's based on on Freemason symbolism.
</blockquote>

== Left boot ==
According to Flatzoid putting a left boot under a table is masonic.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_boot.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_boot.png}}]]

When you actually read the text, which Flatzoid obviously didn't. You can see that the ritual involves taking off your shoe when entering a building. Dave McKeegan was outside and didn't even wear that boot.

<blockquote>
The custom of removing shoes on entering a sacred building dates to extreme antiquity, it is a token of reverence and humility.

It is known as the “Rite of Discalceation” and in the language of symbolism, signifies that the place that is approached in reverence and humility is consecrated to some holy purpose.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.thesquaremagazine.com/mag/article/202302masonic-miscellanies-bare-feet-and-freemasonry/ Bare Feet and Fremasonery, by the square magazine]</ref>

== Numbers ==
=== 33 ===
Becoming a millionaire at age 33 is also a masonic ritual.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_age.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_age.png}}]]

== Hiding one eye ==
Hiding one eye is a masonic ritual.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_eye.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_eye.png}}]]

Of course when it happens to Flatzoid it's suddenly just a coincidence and wasn't on purpose.

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_1.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_1.jpg}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_2.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_2.jpg}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_3.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_3.png}}]]

== Hand sign ==
There are also plenty of hand sign counting as Freemason signs.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_hand.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_hand.png}}]]

== Lunar eclipse diagram ==
According to Flatzoid a diagram of the lunar eclipse is kind of occultic.

[[File:Geometry-lunar-eclipse-Moon-shadow-orbit-Earth.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Geometry-lunar-eclipse-Moon-shadow-orbit-Earth.jpg}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out to you look at the shapes coming off here I'm going to get another one online because this symbol is kind of occultic.

...

'''Flatzoid:''' This whole um occultic sign sort of goes and, um it's how can I say, makes a Baphomet sign. Almost a triple six based on this, but you have to remember the whole heliocentric belief system is based on a Babylonian pagan belief and it's satanic so it does reference triple 6.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=869 14:29 The lunar eclipse diagram is occultic, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Carousel ==
Flatzoid used an analysis of Ray Bradbury's "Something Wicked The Way Comes"<ref>[https://youtu.be/2OsscT0zyLk?t=602 10:02 Flatzoid and the wicked carousel, <q>Is TFE (The Final Experiment) Demonic? Unmasking Spiritual Implications</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.litcharts.com/lit/something-wicked-this-way-comes/symbols/the-carousel <q>The Carousel</q> by Litcharts]</ref> as evidence that the carousel used in Will Duffy's first video<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSbYR9wzL-o <q>The Final Experiment - A History (1 of 6)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>, means wicked or temptation. Flatzoid doesn't even understand that "Something Wicked This Way Comes" is the title of the novel. The symbol that Will wanted to present is nostalgia and history.

Flatzoid even reads the symbolism of the forest in "Lord of the Rings". He only reads the last sentence. There isn't even a carousel in the entire book.
<blockquote>
I think Cirlot succeeds in capturing the gist of forest symbolism but I would dare to expand a little on his definition by looking at the forest imagery in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings (the book). In the first part, the heroic quest begins in the Old Forest, which borders the Shire symbolizing the threshold on the verge of the unknown. Marching through it, the hobbits go deeper and deeper and always keep turning left, which symbolically implies introversion and probing the unconscious. The trees are perilous, alive and can be malicious. At one point Merry and Pippin get trapped in the trunk of Old Man Willow, who had cast a spell on them making them sleepy. In this part of the hero’s journey the forest symbolizes the threatening aspect of the personal unconscious, its deathly pull towards inertia stemming from the lack of consciousness and self-knowledge.
</blockquote><ref>[https://symbolreader.net/2013/04/14/the-symbolism-of-the-forest/ <q>Symbolism of the forest</q> by Symbolreader]</ref>

He clearly has no concept of context.

== Churchlogo ==
Flatzoid accuses Will Duffy of using a logo that looks like Baphomet.<ref>[https://youtu.be/2OsscT0zyLk?t=1930 32:10 Flatzoid Baphomet, <q>Is TFE (The Final Experiment) Demonic? Unmasking Spiritual Implications</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Church_logo_baphomet_split.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_baphomet_split.png}}]]

[[File:Church_logo_baphomet.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_baphomet.png}}]]

As anyone but Flatzoid can see, it doesn't match. It's just Flatzoid's pareidolia. The church tower looks like a triangle, Baphomet's head looks like a triangle, therefore it must be the same.

He does the same using the mason compass and square logo. Completely oblivious that the tools are the important part of the Mason logo. Which shape they use doesn't matter.

[[File:Church_logo_mason.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_mason.png}}]]

His argument is so stupid, it can be applied to his own logo.

[[File:Creality_baphomed.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Creality_baphomed.webp}}]]
[[File:Creality_mason.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Creality_mason.webp}}]]

== Flatzoid hypocrisy ==
When Flat Earth Banjo (Eddie) made a video claiming that Flatzoid is a Mason etc, Flatzoid complains about it, while he does the same thing to Will Duffy and the TFE participants. His accusations are actually worse, as you can see in the next section.

=== Misrepresentation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I don't I don't have an issue with calling out stuff like this. The issue I have is he's misrepresenting the thing. He's going out his way to make something that it isn't. And he's presenting it to his audience as if it is. So, he hasn't approached me once. I haven't badmouthed Eddie once.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/V1Qd051LO7E?t=2370 39:30 Flatzoid complaining about being associated with Illuminati/Masons, <q>Flat Earth Banjo Calls Me Illuminati — Let’s Set the Record Straight</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== False Narrative ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' He doesn't think that the thing he's pushing on me, other people are going to believe him because he's influencing them. So, they're not going to look at both sides of the argument. They're just going to automatically trust Banjo with the false narrative.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/V1Qd051LO7E?t=2514 41:54 Flatzoid complaining about Eddie pushing a false narrative, <q>Flat Earth Banjo Calls Me Illuminati — Let’s Set the Record Straight</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Which is exactly the same thing that Flatzoid did to TFE and its participants.

= Accusations =

== Will Duffy ==
In multiple videos Flatzoid claims that [[Will Duffy's sermon on deception|Will Duffy said that deception is good]].<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=1639 27:19 Flatzoid claiming that Will said deception is good, <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> That's not true. Will said that according to the bible, lying is not inherently evil.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zS5qb8zng <q>Is It Always Wrong To Tell A Lie?</q> by Agape Kingdom Fellowship]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px12ldp9MOo <q>Is It A Sin To Lie If It Means You’re Saving A Life?</q> by Agape Kingdom Fellowship]</ref>

== Brenda ==
Flatzoid brought up a video claiming it shows Brenda, even though it's someone else, to defame not just her, but the entire globe community.<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=4497 1:14:57 <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Lisbeth ==
Flatzoid calls [[Lisbeth Acosta]] a "village bicycle".
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlfQuZDfVY <q>Fkatzoid, David Cain, PJ are Evil</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. So we all know why um Lisbeth went with on the group.

'''PJ?:''' Uh-huh.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah.

'''Roger:''' We get it.

'''Micheal Khan:''' Skiing.

'''Roger:''' Yeah that's what it was.

'''Flatzoid:''' Have you ever heard of the, have you ever heard of the, um, of the saying before Village Bicycle?

'''PJ:''' Yeah. Town bike.

'''Micheal Khan:''' Local pusher.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/6SgUnDVQOOw?t=4347 1:12:27 Flatzoid calling Lisbeth A village bicycle, <q>Big Bang Idiocy!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The context was super weird. They were watching a clip from The Line talking about the Big Bang, complaining about it of course, without any mention of TFE or the participants, then they suddenly start saying that crap.

Flatzoid made further accusations about Lisbeth and the TFE crew in general,<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEbxW7FjK4 <q>Fkatzoid's Sick Fantasies about Lisbeth</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> which [[Roger Ledwell]] still repeats to this day.<ref>https://youtu.be/aQObWB0YdAU</ref>

Flatzoid claimed that [[Jeran Campanella]] had half naked photos of [[Lisbeth Acosta]] broadcast during a livestream: <q>We literally have seen a picture of Lisbeth half naked for Jeran.</q>

The photo seen in Jeran's live stream, was of his wife.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ec97tjelk 1:11:18 Jeran's wife on livestream censored <q>jeranism Friday UNPLUGGED Ep. 4 | Responding to Those Who Say the Antarctica Trip Was Fake | 1/31/25</q> by jeranism]</ref> Jeran censored the photo now. Flatzoid dishonest as always just asserted that it was Lisbeth.

Other defamatory quotes from Flatzoid:
* "That whole group is a perverted nonsense idiotic people and frankly they need to get a life."
* "We all know why um Lisbeth went with on the group. Have you ever heard of the um of the saying before village bicycle?"
** https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Village%20Bicycle

He doubles down on his accusation.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uNCAg7rfBDU?t=510 8:30 Flatzoid doubling down on his accusation about Lisbeth, <q>So Cultered talks about flat earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know McToon brought out a video guys, earlier and uh we called uh you know Village Bicycle. Um Sprouts of Doom don't come in here saying silly horrible things like I do, I just hear it from the channel, you got it. Anyway you see the difference between uh Lisbeth and my wife, Lisbeth sends nude pictures to uh Jeran, my wife doesn't do that to anybody. So get your facts straight mate. Oh that actually, we literally have, we literally have seen a picture of Lisbeth half naked for Jeran.
</blockquote>

=== Pretending to apologize ===
==== Wrong picture ====
He later apologized about showing another picture than the one he saw on Jeran's stream.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-0W5xaNQ8I&t=16802s 2:39:57 Flatzoid presenting a photo that wasn't one Jeran's live stream, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> No attempt of apologizing about his wrongful accusations.

[[File:Flatzoid-pathetic-apoology.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-pathetic-apoology.png}}]]

==== Misrepresentation ====
Another pathetic attempt of an apology is his video <q>Flatzoid No More</q><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uO1g0y7hEg Flatzoid blaming the globe side for misrepresenting him, <q>Flatzoid No More</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, where once again he doesn't retract his accusations, but instead blames the globe side for misrepresenting him.

==== Calling the rest of TFE participants masonic perverts ====
He also tried to backtrack about his accusations about Lisbeth by calling everyone else involved in TFE the perverts.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=10265 2:51:05 Flatzoid accusing the other TFE participants, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> As if changing the target makes his accusations any better.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Lisbeth can come talk to me anytime, I'll show much respect to her because I don't mean any disrespect to her. I'm just simply pointing out the other perverted idiots.
</blockquote>

He doubles down on it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=1294 21:34 Flatzoid claiming that the TFE guys needed Lisbeth for a ritual again, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Let me put it this way. I didn't say anything about her. They misrepresented what I said. I was uh referencing the guys, the reason they wanted her to go, based on Freemason ritual. That was the context. I didn't call her a prostitute, didn't say she was a village bicycle, literally just saying what they needed her for. That's it.
</blockquote>

He goes even further. <ref>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=1844 29:41 Flatzoid talking about masonic sex rituals, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' No the thing is, how how freemasonic, how are freemasonic rituals work, based on uh certain things. When you get to a certain, a certain level of masonry they have um rituals based on a sexual kind, unfortunately and they usually um use an innocent person for this, and uh that's where the village bicycle thing comes in. You can actually have a lot of testimonies where people were used for this ritual. Innocent girls or innocent women and stuff for this, and it's usually based on a lot of times the the men take their own children or wives or people they know for this and uh they get sexually abused and go through a ritual and everything, which is bad. Like I saying we, they made it look like we were calling her a prostitute and saying she's a village bicycle. That's not true. We were saying, the reason they wanted her there because it's based on the context of them being Freemasons. So they turned it around now, they turned it around now and said we called her a village bicycle, called her a prostitute, which is not true. We didn't say she would even even take partake in any of that like we said all the time.
</blockquote>

There is no context whatsoever suggesting there was any kind sexual ritual, even if we assume the TFE guys were Freemasons. Somehow he thinks that it's OK to make accusations about people by first calling them Freemasons.

==== Misspeaking about it being a nude photo ====
The next backtracking he does is saying that he misspoke about it being a nude picture and he apologizes about claiming that Lisbeth sent the photo. Instead he is blaming Jeran for simply having a photo, which Flatzoid asserts to be Lisbeth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11593 3:13:13 Flatzoid accusing Jeran for having a lightly dressed photo of Lisbeth, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I shouldn't have said nude. I did fix myself afterwards and said nearly nude. Though, well, yeah, so yeah. Again that was in reply to uh McToon coming in and uh you know slandering my wife and bringing my wife into the argument.

'''Roger Ledwell:''' the question is why would he get a nearly nude photo of Lisbeth in the first place?

'''Flatzoid:''' Yes that one. Why, now again, I, I shouldn't have said Lisbeth sent it to her so that was wrong, cuz he could have got it off her profiles, you know what I mean?

'''Roger Ledwell:''' that's all I said

'''Flatzoid:''' But that was a misspeak. Sorry about that Lisbeth I didn't mean to say you sent it. It was just, I was caught off guard with McToon coming in and bringing my wife into it so that I didn't mean to say sending but yeah, it's just, I should have said it's weird that you would have pictures like that. You know what I mean?
</blockquote>

Note that Fkatzoid was claiming that MCToon was in the video livestream chat. This is a lie because Fkatzoid loves censorship so much that he has MCToon blocked on his channel so it's impossible.

==== He claims that he is not attacking Lisbeth, by attacking others ====
Flatzoid also claims that he didn't attack Lisbeth, because he didn't make live streams or videos about her, like he did with MCToon, Dave McKeegan and Will Duffy.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=13112 3:38:32 Flatzoid admitting he attacked MCToon, Will Duffy and Dave McKegan, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Admitting to attack someone else to avoid admitting to attack Lisbeth, doesn't help his case.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean if I really wanted to attack her, would I have not made a video by now or a live stream about it? Like I've been doing with McToon and McKeegan and Duffy. Would make live streams about it correct? Or videos?
</blockquote>

== Jeran ==
=== Revenge porn ===
Flatzoid received some [[Wikipedia:Revenge porn|revenge porn]] of [[Jeran Campanella]]. On April 1, 2025 Flatzoid boasted about this on his livestream and gave a highly distorted description that suggested there was a child victim involved:<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/Oc6T8J4kzwo?t=3775s 1:02:54 <q>Zach Star CLAPS BACK at Flat Earth Comments</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid admission about Jeran revenge porn.jpg|thumb|right|Flatzoid admitting the video showed no crime]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Every time the guy’s name comes up I just think of those videos sent to me.
'''[[Sovereign Soul Unchained Mind|SSUM]]:''' I haven’t seen ’em.
'''Flatzoid:''' You don’t want to. But let me put into context one of the videos. It’s a child’s torso, and he’s … [Flatzoid strikes his desk repeatedly].
'''SSUM:''' Wow.
'''[[Roger Ledwell]]:''' Nice.
</blockquote>

Two days later, when [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]] was challenging him on this, Flatzoid admitted the object in the video was actually some type of “doll” and that no crime was depicted.

<hr style="clear:both;"/>

=== Claiming Jeran is a pervert ===
In his fake apology to Lisbeth while Flatzoid was watching Dave McKeegan's stream, he shifted the blame to Jeran. <ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11664 3:14:24 Flatzoid calling Jeran a pervert, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid''': Um, oh, and I want to point out yes, uh everybody in the flat earth community knows just what Jeran sends to females and expects them to send to him.

'''PJ:''' He's disgusting

'''Flatzoid:''' So I'm not going to say anything further than that. Again not slander, not saying anything. If you don't believe me you can ask any other flatearther about the stuff. I don't want to say anything. I just say "Pray for the guy he's very perverted." That's it.
</blockquote>

== MCToon ==
Flatzoid repeated the [[“Kid in a basement” rumor]] about MCToon.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uNCAg7rfBDU?t=5729 1:35:39 Flatzoid accusing Toon, <q>So Cultured talks about flat earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I've got a statement from McToon who just came in, which I just blocked, um maybe you want to let go of the children tied to the pole in your basement.
</blockquote>

He also claims that MCToon is perverted, because he is friends with Jeran. <ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=9953 2:45:53 Flatzoid claiming that MCToon is perverted, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' McToon you can also come in and talk because I'm more than happy to tell you how perverted you are because everybody knows how perverted you are. You buddy buddy with Jeran.
</blockquote>

== Flatearthers who left ==
According to Flatzoid many of the people who reached out to people like Dave McKeegan, to say why they left flat earth, are just fabricated accounts.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11119 3:05:19 Flatzoid claiming that flatearthers who quit are fake, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out so many of these what he's claiming are fabricated fake accounts.
</blockquote>



= References =

<references />

[[Category:Religiflerfs]]
[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]

Flatzoid

2026-02-26T16:49:36Z

PeterMarkley: Roger Ledwell still repeats the “village bicycle” bile

{{Infobox
|image=File:Flatzoid.jpg
|realName=Keith Reynolds
|alias=Flatzoid, Fkatzoid, Fitzoid, Kifazoid, Failzoid, Creality, Ratzoid, Fapzoid, Wankzoid
|location=South Africa
|platform=[https://www.youtube.com/@CrealityPodcast YouTube]
|papa=[[Nathan Oakley]] (prior to a [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf-on-flerf]])|antisemite=Unconfirmed
|religiflerf=Yes. He is so religious, he had a [https://youtu.be/H1sLjp6I6DQ meltdown] because he watched porn.
|drinksUrine=Unconfirmed
|adoptedBy=[[User:Graugnarz|Graugnarz]]}}

For anyone interested in clips of Flatzoid's derp,
[https://www.youtube.com/@JackoaTrades Jack of all Trades] and
[https://www.youtube.com/@Eduardo_Igirisu Eduardo Igirisu] have a collection.

= Known Accounts =
* [https://www.youtube.com/@CrealityPodcast Creality Jesus Saves]
* [https://www.youtube.com/@KifazoidDesigns His Kingdom Is Flat]
* [https://www.tiktok.com/@flatzoids.perspective @flatzoids.perspective]

== YouTube Account History ==
* Flatzoid FE
* Flatzoids Perspective
* Creality
* Creality Jesus Saves

= Other Info =
* Keith Reynolds, known online as Flatzoid, is a South African flat Earth proponent.
* He has engaged in debates with fellow flat Earther Nathan Oakley, leading to a [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf-on-flerf]] spat.
* He was associated with the [[“Flatzoid’s Kids” Rumor]], which he has helped start and perpetuate.
* While trying to deface this very web site, Flatzoid leaked his IP address. <ref>[https://www.flerf.info/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=2338&oldid=2337 Fkatzoid's slanderous edit]</ref> <ref name="vandalzoid">[https://youtu.be/qSlnZD3ji0g?t=2067 34:27 Flatzoid vandalizing the website, <q>Mctoons Flerf Wiki Obsession</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
* He rebranded his YouTube channel to [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Creality Creality] on 5th April 2025
* He renamed the channel again to "Creality Jesus Saves" on 11th April 2025
* Winner of the 2025 Top left award <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/uiE2AhfdIkk Top Left 2025 Awards]</ref>
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-avAKJfS8s '''Fkatz Where Have I Heard This Before''']: Short clip showing Flatzoid being out of line with some family members.
* In his stream [https://youtu.be/H1sLjp6I6DQ <q>Forgiveness in Jesus</q>] from November 23 2025, he has a meltdown about having watched porn.





= Notable Quotes & Incidents =
== Going Full Oakley ==
During a September 2025 livestream Flatzoid stepped off camera and was heard shouting abusively,<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwVzmN4Olxk</ref>
<ref>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YPS50NVAL70</ref>
<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/KEcGWBFNKaM</ref>
<ref>https://youtube.com/shorts/pSLYPqi7yT4</ref> presumably to his family.

Approximate transcription (mostly in [[Wikipedia:Afrikaans|Afrikaans]]):
<blockquote>Nee nee wat de hel gaan aan, wat de fok—stop! Hou op om hierdie kak … (Ek gee nie meer 'n fokken fok om nie.)</blockquote>

English translation:
<blockquote>No No what the hell is going on, what the fuck—stop! Stop doing this shit [?] … (I don't give a fucking fuck anymore.)</blockquote>

== Being obsessed ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why do we observe such a fervent Obsession of globe believers who despite dismissing the notion of a flat Earth as ridiculous and unscientific, seem unable to just let it rest?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/qBf4pnYvnT0?t=21 00:21 <q>What's REALLY Behind the FLAT EARTH Obsession?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But the ironic thing is they claim flat earth is not important. Flat earth is dumb. But yet their whole career is built on flat earth, right?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=924 15:24 Flatzoid claiming that if flat earth is dumb, they shouldn't be making videos about it, while making videos about the globe that he thinks is dumb. <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Flatzoid calling people obsessed for not letting the flat earth rest, while he keeps making videos about the globe, which he thinks to be ridiculous and unscientific. Why is he so obsessed with the globe? He is particularly obsessed with TFE as he made 53 live streams and 24 videos about TFE as of 7 June 2025.

He most likely simply wants people to stop explaining to him why he is wrong and just accept the nonsense he is telling everyone. Many of his nonsense claims are explained below.

== Union Glacier Location ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I do think that they're being duped to think they're at Antarctica. I don't think Union Glacier is really at Antarctica. I think that's at a different location and it's placed as Antarctica.<ref>[https://youtu.be/3Z9NRoFpDco?t=10696 2:58:16, <q>TFE Is not faking anything?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

== Where is the South Pole? ==
<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' Where is the South Pole?

'''Flatzoid:''' It's a ceremonial Place.

'''Will Duffy:''' And where is it?

'''Flatzoid:''' At the ceremonial South Pole place, where they put the pole up.
<ref name="flatzoid south pole">[https://youtu.be/mB5cNbQj3fc?t=315 5:15, <q>Deceptive Duffy show up</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

== Claiming that people defending themselves when accused of lying means that they are guilty ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' See, that's the one thing that I've realized, especially with this um topic. If you call out deception, which I do a lot, the fact that they come and they try and, uh how can I say, defend it towards me shows that they're guilty because one thing I've realized through years is, if someone is not feeling guilty about things they just ah leave it and they go on, or they make one video just you know um saying, okay I respond to it and they go on with their lives. These guys make it them life's mission to try and discredit me to try and defend saying they're not deceptive.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=2756 45:56, <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>
That's rich coming from someone who made it his mission to discredit Will Duffy and the other TFE participants.

==Flatzoid and his panel discussing the South Pole ==
<blockquote>
'''David Sanch:''' So, you know they have the South Pole station and they claim that that place was found because someone came from like the north of Antarctica and went South following the Stars until they got to that place, and then someone from the south of Antarctica went like, also straight to that place, but like I don't know about the exact Direction, but they're saying that they came from two opposite sides of Antarctica. They followed the sky and they met in one geographic location where all the stars were circling around one point in the sky.

'''Flatzoid:''' Now what happened is the one person went and he placed a tent there then later on another person came and found the tent there and they declared it as the geographic South Pole.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/MeJmAv-Uv_Q?t=5673 1:34:33 Flatzoid and his panel talking about the South Pole, <q>Let's have a talk!</q> (March 16) by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For a proper explanation about how the South Pole was discovered Will Duffy made a great video explaining it.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FblzXj3q4s <q>THE FINAL EXPERIMENTS - The South Pole</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Basically both Amundsen's and Scott's teams started from two different location and used the sun to navigate, to find the South Pole. Both teams eventually reached the same location on that large continent of Antarctica, because unlike flerfs, they know how to navigate. Amundsen didn't just randomly pick a place, like Flatzoid is implying, they traveled until they reached the location where the sun doesn't change its elevation during a day, which is at the South pole as the globe predicts. Scott did the same thing and found Amundsen's tent at that location.

== Space Pen ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I just want to point out guys if this space pen is such a thing why I don't get why you have to spend millions of dollars to produce a space pen when you can literally just take a pencil?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2353 39:13 Flatzoid talking about space pen, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Sciencealert explains the issues with pencils in space.

<blockquote>
But why such a big brouhaha in the first place?

As it turns out, there are certain things that you don't want floating around in space. Pencil detritus is one of them. The lead could snap off, which presents a hazard; but neither do you want flammable wood shavings floating loose in a spacecraft, or the microscopic particles of electrically conductive graphite that shed from a pencil as it writes.

Any minute particles that can get lodged in delicate machinery are a hazard in space, and the particles that come off pencils were cause for significant concern. Fire, in particular, is a serious safety issue in spacecraft, and one NASA doesn't treat lightly after a fire killed all three members of the Apollo 1 mission in 1967.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.sciencealert.com/why-wouldnt-nasa-want-to-use-pencils-in-space-heres-the-true-story <q>Why Wouldn't NASA Want to Use Pencils in Space? Here's The True Story</q> by Sciencealert]</ref>

== Greek Matrix ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The um Greeks were attempting to do a analog version of the Matrix if you would like to put it that way, because they were making people live in a, trying to see in a paradigm that goes against reality, and it's all just based on ones and zeros. It's based on a binary system it's based on maths, guys.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=365 6:05 Analog Matrix, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Diameter and circumference ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Diameter is the circumference.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=10049 2:47:29 Diameter is circumference, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Terminator Line ==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I said there is no terminator line because I don't believe in the in the moon as a solid object.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=2309 38:29 Flatzoid not understanding terminator line, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Christmas ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Well, Brenda, do you know what, do you know what, do you know what Christmas means?

'''Brenda:''' It's mass at, at during that time. It's a Christ mass.

'''Flatzoid:''' It's massacres of Christians. It's celebrating the massacre of Christians.
</blockquote>

<ref>[https://youtu.be/L3FQH1IEm0o?t=1426 23:46 Flatzoid claiming Christmas is celebrating massacre of Christians, <q>Flat vs Globe Earth Debate: Uncovering the Truth Once and For All!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Changing moon angular size ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You can even change the angular size of the moon if you if you bend down, turn your back towards the moon, open your legs, and stick your head through your legs.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/O7IE8BKEhAY?t=2486 41:26 Flatzoid claiming you can change the angular size of the moon <q>Flat Earth Friday: Flat Earth vs Globe Earth Showdown LIVE Debate</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== There are more people in the Southern hemisphere ==

<blockquote>
'''Luca:''' Well, I guess um more people go to the north than the south. So I I guess that could be a reason why because well most of the population live in the north rather than the south.

'''Flatzoid (laughing):''' That's a lie. But okay.

'''Luca:''' What what do you mean?

'''Flatzoid:''' Brazil has more people in Brazil alone than the whole of Britain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oE9fKyHesUk?t=1272 21:12 Flatzoid thinking there are more people in the South, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Vert Review Prt 3</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

North America has about 388,235,791 people, <ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/northern-america-population/ <q>Northern America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
Central America has about 185,710,960 people,<ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/central-america-population/ <q>Central America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
while South America has 438,895,477 people.<ref>[https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/south-america-population/ <q>South America Population</q> by Worldometers]</ref>
Both North America and Central America are in the northern hemisphere, so we add their populations to 388,235,791 + 185,710,960 = 573,946,751. Even when ignoring that part of South America is also North of the equator, there are more people North of the equator than south of it in America.

== Cardinal Directions are corners ==

<blockquote>
'''???:''' Does a sphere have corners?

'''Flatzoid:''' Nope, but a circle does. It's called cardinal directions.

'''Luca:''' What?

'''Flatzoid:''' North, East, South, West.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oE9fKyHesUk?t=3409 56:49 Cardinal directions are corners, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Vert Review Prt 3</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

==South Pole yard==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If the South Pole exists, then the Earth cannot be flat. Oh my word. Um, Roger. Do do you do you have a yard?

'''Roger:''' I do have a yard. Yes.

'''Flatzoid:''' Let's say you go to anywhere on the perimeter of that yard and you just paint one of those poles red in on your fence.

'''Roger:''' I don't have a fence.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. But let's say you hypothetically you got a a white fence around your yard.

'''Roger:''' Gotcha.

'''Flatzoid:''' And you just paint one of those poles red and call it the south pole. Does that mean it's not your yard anymore?

'''Roger:''' Wrong. It's my yard. Yes.

'''Flatzoid:''' Does that mean there's no north inside that perimeter of your yard?

'''Roger:''' I don't see how that would happen.

'''Flatzoid:''' Uh, exactly. Because the so-called South Pole is just a ceremonial place placed in the ground where tourists go.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/wi4RB6Runl4?t=2760 46:00 Flatzoid comparing the South Pole with a fence, <q>The Final Experiment Debate | Flat Earth vs Globe | Jerenism & Sam Timed Discussion Review</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Books written by man ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Um Sean Hawkins believes so-called scientist books. Correct?

'''PJ:''' Mhm.

'''Flatzoid:''' Did men write those science books?

'''PJ:''' Starting today.

'''Flatzoid:''' Oh, okay. Okay.

'''PJ:''' And they weren't God inspired.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's weird.

'''Michael Khan:''' It's an argument that falls flat on its face instantly.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's hypocritical.

'''Michael Khan:''' All books are wrote by men. So if you took one out, you took them all out.

'''Flatzoid:''' That's hypocritical.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1239 20:39 Books written by man, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> By Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Science books record scientific discoveries with evidence that can be verified. The bible on the other hand is a book of stories, some based on true events, some completely made up.

== Red Bull ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do bulls give milk?

[...]

'''Flatzoid:''' I mean you obviously do you obviously drink Red Bull, correct, Luka?

'''Luka:''' They they give chocolate milk.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, but you you drink you you drink Red Bull, Luka.

'''Luka:''' Uh no, I don't.

'''Flatzoid:''' I'm proud of you. Because that's got a lot of bulls milk in there.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=2874 47:54 Bull's Milk, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== God told Moses how he built the world ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' And because God told Moses exactly in detail how he made the world.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0?t=77 1:17 God explained how earth was made, <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The bible just claims God did it. There is no explanation whatsoever.

== Fapzoiding ==

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I keep getting people ask me, "Why did you make that video?" I don't know. Because the Bible tells me to.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0?t=1791 29:51 Why Flatzoid created fap confession video, <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Nowhere in the bible does it tell you that you have to publicly announce that you masturbated. If it talks about confessing, then it's about you talking to a pastor or praying to God, but not making a YouTube video.

= Lies =
Tiny Captain has a nice compilation of Flatzoid's lies.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5zNY0q36ck <q>The Truth Behind Fkatzoids (‪@FlatzoidsPerspective‬ ) Lies</q> by Tiny Captain]</ref>

== General Lies ==

=== 11 Frames ===
Flatzoid's most famous lie is him removing 11 frames in a video of a capsule splashdown. Reds Rhetoric made a video about that.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-6MQ0y3B4 <q>Flat Earth Dishonesty - Spurs & Flatzoid FE</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref> Critical Think has a shorter summary.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7YnVqFLj0Y <q>The 11 (or 13) frames of shame</q> by Critical Think]</ref>

Basically he wanted to show his viewers that the splash happens when the capsule hit the horizon, instead of slightly afterwards, when it was already well below the horizon. His excuse is that he had the full scene in the stream and that he only removed the frames to remove the effect of a mirage. Obviously removing frames, doesn't remove a mirage, and having both the full clip and one with missing frames doesn't change the fact that he removed the frames.

He admits it in multiple videos.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jOs7dVyBFtY?t=310 5:10 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames, <q>It's Gone! #Inferior mirage</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/GaoHuIqAK4Q?t=98 1:38 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames 2, <q>We Cut The Horizon! AGAIN!11 frames</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/jfrjbsG5s_c?t=318 5:18 Flatzoid admitting that he removed the frames 3, <q>11 frames 🤨🤷‍♂️</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Reds Rhetoric had a discussion with Flatzoid about it. Flatzoid's argument is that he didn't remove the frames on purpose, because the purpose of removing the frames wasn't to remove the frames, but to remove the mirage.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/k22VYK6Ish4 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

The exchange happened in the debate with Reds Rhetoric:

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I removed the inferior mirage on purpose.

'''Red:''' Which required what?

'''Flatzoid:''' Frames to be taken out by mistake.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/k22VYK6Ish4?si=irfeJFOaB-xjEwAP&t=7824 2:10:24 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

Flatzoid also said in the same video: "No I didn't remove any frames, all the frames are still in the video, I did however remove the inferior mirage in the video, which required frames to be removed but that wasn't my intent although all the frames are still in the video."
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/k22VYK6Ish4?si=tBguSRd6-M0ipww5&t=7681 2:08:01 <q>Fkatzoid VS Reds Rhetoric: I'll Take My 11 Frames w/ Cheese</q> by Reds Rhetoric]</ref>

=== Becoming Fkatzoid ===
During MCToon's livestream <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> <ref>[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU<q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref>, Toon checked if Flatzoid had his email address on his channel. Flatzoid didn't and to hide it he quickly added his email address<ref name="flatmail">[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU?t=17652 4:54:12 Adding the email, <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref>, and was caught mistyping it as fkatzoid@gmail.com.<ref>[https://youtu.be/11a-wzdwSqU?t=26821 7:27:01 Birth of Fkatzoid, <q>Flattys are Eating Their Own</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> He tried to cover it up by claiming that Toon changed the HTML, even though Toon couldn't have done that as he shared his screen at the time, showing everyone how he refreshed the page. <ref name="flatmail" /> Furthermore Toon would have had to add all the stuff that were removed after Flatzoid updated his about page.

[[File:fkatzoid.png|500px|link={{filepath:fkatzoid.png}}]]

=== Bible says Earth is flat ===
Flatzoid had a bet with Shawn Hawkins about the bible saying that Earth is flat. <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WtprsqnaEk <q>Shawn Owes me $100</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For that Flatzoid brought up 2 Samuel 11:11 of two very obscure bibles.
* The Matthew's Bible: <q>And Vrias sayd vnto Dauid: the arck and Israel & Iuda dwell in pauilions: & my Lord Ioab and the seruauntes of my Lorde lye in tentes vpon the flat earthe: and shulde I then go into myne house, to eate and to dryncke & to lye wyth my wyfe? By thy lyfe and as sure as thy soule lyueth, I wyll not do that thyng.</q><ref>[https://textusreceptusbibles.com/Matthews/10/11 <q>Matthew's Bible 2 Samuel 11</q> by textusreceptusbibles ]</ref>
* The Great Bible: <q>Urias answered Dauid. The arcke & Israel and Iuda dwell in pauylyons: and my Lorde Ioab and the seruauntes of my Lorde lye vpon the flatt erthe: and shall I then go into myne house, to eate, and to dryncke, and lye wyth my wyfe? By thy lyfe and by the lyfe of thy soule, I wyll not do thys thynge.</q><ref>[https://textusreceptusbibles.com/Great/10/11 <q>Great Bible 2 Samuel 11</q> by textusreceptusbibles]</ref>

When looking through other translation it becomes obvious that that passage talks about an open area.<ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Samuel%2011%3A11 <q>2 Samuel 11 in multiple translations</q> by Biblegateway]</ref>

=== NASA changing curriculum ===
One of Flatzoid's panel claims that the study <q>A CROSS-CULTURAL INVESTIGATION OF CHILDREN'S CONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE EARTH, THE SUN AND THE MOON: GREEK AND AMERICAN DATA</q> <ref>[https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED318627.pdf <q>A CROSS-CULTURAL INVESTIGATION OF CHILDREN'S CONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE EARTH, THE SUN AND THE MOON: GREEK AND AMERICAN DATA</q>]</ref> was given a grant by NASA.

The claim is that the National Science Foundation (NSF) is an arm of NASA<ref>[https://youtu.be/zavA5T-aGfI?t=1749 29:09 NSF is an arm of NASA, <q>You can’t handle the truth!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, which Flatzoid simply accepted without checking. By simply looking up that foundation what do we find?

<blockquote>The U.S. National Science Foundation is an independent federal agency that supports science and engineering in all 50 states and U.S. territories.
NSF was established in 1950 by Congress to:
* Promote the progress of science.
* Advance the national health, prosperity and welfare.
* Secure the national defense.

We fulfill our mission chiefly by making grants. Our investments account for about 25% of federal support to America's colleges and universities for basic research: research driven by curiosity and discovery. We also support solutions-oriented research with the potential to produce advancements for the American people.</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.nsf.gov/about <q>National Science Foundation</q>]</ref>

Flatzoid and his panel blame NASA for something they have nothing to do with.



=== All images of Earth are composites ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' According to NASA none (of the images of Earth) is real. They're all composites.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=3126 52:06 Flatzoid saying all the images of earth are composites according to NASA, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

It's of course a lie that all the images of Earth are composites. Also composite doesn't mean fake. A composite is essentially a bunch of photos stitched together.

The most famous example of a single frame photograph of Earth is of course the Blue Marble of 1972.

[[File:Blue_marble.webp|500px|link={{filepath:Blue_marble.webp}}]]

<blockquote>
This classic photograph of the Earth was taken on Dec. 7, 1972, by the crew of Apollo 17.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/blue-marble-view-from-apollo-17/ <q>The Blue Marble: The View From Apollo 17</q> by NASA]</ref>

For more photos of Earth taken during the Apollo missions you can visit the [https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/ Apollo Image Atlas].<ref>[https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/ Apollo Image Atlas]</ref>

== Lying about the globe ==
=== Flatzoid's Sunrise Observations===
==== Sunrise in Uvongo December 15 2024 ====
Flatzoid went to Uvongo on a holiday on December 15, 2024 and while there he measured the direction of the sunrise. His phone showed 122°. When comparing it with Google Earth, he claims that the right line is 122°. <ref>[https://youtu.be/extI4zjeg3g?t=270 6:36, <q>Sunrise Observation kills the globe</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

Google Earth actually shows that the right line is 118°.

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-118.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

In a previous video he even claimed the sun rose at 185°.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' 185° South. 185° South guys, that's where the sunrise is in Uvongo South Africa, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa at quarter past 5 a.m. on the 21st of December 2024. 185° South, directly.
</blockquote>

<ref>[https://youtu.be/VuzWm4N5vFQ?t=1893 31:33 Sun rising in Uvongo at 185° according to Flatzoid, <q>The suns position at sunrise?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

==== Sunrise in eManzimtoti December 17 2025 ====
He did it again in December 2025, this time in eManzimtoti, where once again he confirmed the globe prediction.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skLXn3QIdJM&lc=UgyuzS1tFYys-CaW1Bh4AaABAg.AQpOurvGfdzAQpjqMEL229 <q>Sunrise on the coast</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti_flatz.webp|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti_flatz.webp}}]]
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxHXHFSHyqXMrF_IZGM6fTY-fd4JbmS2qb <q>Flatzoid sunrise community post</q>]</ref>

[[File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sunrise_eManzimtoti.png}}]]

Of course he ignores that the flat earth couldn't even make a prediction.

[[File:No_flat_earth_prediction.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:No_flat_earth_prediction.png}}]]

=== Sun is Helios ===
Flatzoid claims that the sun is the sun god Helios. The model being named after a god doesn't make it a god.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you want to take it on belief systems according to the heliocentric belief system the sun is Helios. It actually um denotes coming from the sun god Helios where all life comes from. Yes even in the heliocentric model you guys believe you require Helios the sun god to give life upon the earth, so you require Helios to be your master.
</blockquote>

The sun is not the god Helios, and no one but religious flerfs claims that to be the case.

=== Globe belief is a cult ===
According to Flatzoid the globe belief is a cult.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do you know your globe belief is a cult? Do you know why it's a cult? Because the only people through history who believed opposite of every civilization in history were the pagan Greeks. They believed that um the moon had to be spherical because of shadows and then they believed because of that the earth had to be a a ball.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=2952 49:12 Flatzoid claiming the globe is a cult, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First of all, the Greeks weren't pagan. Paganism is essentially an insult that Christians made up to talk about other religions. Christianity didn't even exist at the time of the ancient Greeks.

Second, the claim that the Greeks are the only people through history who believed the opposite of every other civilization is simply a lie. A modern example of a group of people who go against every current civilization, are flatearthers. Every current civilization determined that Earth is a globe, and flatearthers claim it's not. Using Flatzoid's logic, flat earth belief is a cult as they go against every current civilization.

Third, the Greeks being the first to properly observe and measure Earth's shape doesn't make it a cult. Every other civilization over time realized that Earth is indeed a globe and they adopted it and did their own measurements independent of the others.

== TFE and Antarctica ==

MCToon's videos can be found [https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22MCToon%22 here]

=== TFE not an experiment ===
In a debate against Will Duffy about TFE on Modern-Day Debate Flatzoid brought up a presentation about TFE not being an experiment and being a false dichotomy.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQqSOnGwRGk <q>DEBATE: Flat Earth and Antarctica Predictions | Will Duffy Vs Flatzoid | Podcast</q> by Modern-Day Debate]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid presentation0.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation0.png}}]]

==== What is Science? ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation1.png}}]]

TFE is science as they are observing the position of the sun in Antarctica in December to determine whether the globe prediction of a 24h sun or the flat earth prediction of "nuh-uh" is true.

==== Sun observations ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation2.png}}]]

The globe predicts the sun's position exactly, as Flatzoid himself demonstrated when he observed the sunrise in Uvongo, even though [[Flatzoid#Sunrise_in_Uvongo | he lied about the direction]]. The flat earth on the other hand can't make any predictions as [[Flatzoid#Predictions|Flatzoid himself declared]]. His claim of the angular size changing is a lie. What changes depending on weather conditions is the glare.

==== Scientific Hypothesis ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation3.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation3.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation4.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation4.png}}]]

The hypothesises used are:
# Earth is a globe, orbiting the sun with an axial tilt, which predicts a 24h sun in December in Antarctica.
# Earth is flat with the North Pole in the center and Antarctica around the rim, the most popular flat earth model at the time, which predicts a 24h sun in Antarctica to be impossible. Of course the remaining flerfs immediately declared their model to not be a model, and retracted any claims as soon as they are being tested.

As we saw from the videos taking during TFE, the predicted outcome of Earth being a globe came true.

The variables are used later when it comes to testing the hypothesis.

==== Independent Variable ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation5.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation5.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation6.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation6.png}}]]

In case of TFE the independent variables, yes Flatzoid you can have more than one independent variable, are location and time. They went to Antarctica in December to watch the sun moving 360° around them. The dependent variable is the sun's observed position from Earth, which depends on the location and time. To be really pedantic the independent variables for the globe are Earth's rotation, its axial tilt, its position in orbit around the sun, and the observer's location on Earth's surface. There is no need to directly manipulate the independent variable, they just need to change.

==== False Dichotomy ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation7.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation7.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation8.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation8.png}}]]

There were two potential outcomes for TFE:
# Sun sets.
# Sun doesn't set.

In the first case every model with a 24h sun (i.e. the globe) are falsified and every model with a setting sun gained a piece of evidence.

In the second case the opposite is true. Every model with a setting sun (i.e. a flat earth) are falsified and every model with a sun moving around the location gained evidence.

The conclusion of TFE was of course the second case, where the globe didn't just predict the existence of a 24h sun, but also the exact position of the sun and the shadows. The flat earth on the other hand couldn't provide any kind of model that even remotely matches the observations, so they just come up with more or less ridiculous reasons to call it fake. Many of them are listed below. The only actual attempt of a working model I've seen, was made by Joe Hanvey, which has the sun being reflected on the dome. That model doesn't explain how the sun can move around Union Glacier, and if it was true, it means that it's not possible to have a sunset.

==== Glaring Issues ====
[[File:Flatzoid presentation9.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation9.png}}]]

Will Duffy chose an observation that most flerfs agreed would falsify the flat earth and confirm the globe. As usual as soon as the project is being done, they always request other things. Just like they did when Mr.Sensible sent M.A.G.E. 2 to show curvature, they come up with excuses to not accept it.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFBq0xnCJKE&list=PLk6dtpIYGDmhSMTSpCG3kMWujbbM9o_NS <q>M.A.G.E</q> playlist by Mr Sensible Historic]</ref>

[[File:Mage2_curve.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve.png}}]]

Increasing the contrast makes Earth's curvature more visible.

[[File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png}}]]

For rotation, one way to see it is by using satellites, like this clip taken by GOES East<ref>[https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/index.php <q>GOES Image Viewer</q> by NOAA]</ref> during the solar eclipse of April 8, 2024.

On Earth you can do an experiment using a Foucault's Pendulum<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8rrWUUlZ_U <q>Foucault's Pendulum: Watch the world turn.</q> by The Gentleman Physicist]</ref> or a precise enough gyroscope.

[[File:Solar-eclipse-small.gif|400px|link={{filepath:Solar-eclipse-small.gif}}]]

Gravity is the explanation for objects falling towards the ground and for orbits, like the moon orbiting the Earth, something that flat earth has not even an attempt of an explanation. Of course flatearthers always use some excuses to not use gravity, like saying it's buoyancy and density, even though [[Flatzoid#Buoyancy | buoyancy can't even exist without opposing another force]], like the one caused by gravity.

An experiment that can be done, would be the Cavendish experiment<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbucRPiL92Q <q>The Cavendish Experiment - Obvious Gravitational Attraction</q> by MrLundScience]</ref>, which Flatzoid plans on doing himself. He needs to use the same scrutiny he used for TFE.

For example:
* A uninterrupted livestream. If the livestream is interrupted by a blackout or internet connectivity issues, the entire experiment is fake, according to his standard.
* There can't be any glitches or lens distortions, even when they can't be avoided.
* He has to call Steve from England during his livestream, as apparently that was important for TFE.
* There can't be anything orange, red, blue or any other color [[Flatzoid#Colors|he declares to be masonic]].
* He has to swear on the bible with his left hand, as [[Flatzoid#Putting_your_right_hand_on_the_bible|using the right hand is masonic]] according to him.
* There can't be any shoe, especially the left shoe, visible, as [[Flatzoid#Left_boot|that's masonic]] apparently.
* He can't form any kind of [[Flatzoid#Hand_sign|hand sign]] he declares to be masonic even accidentally.

=== Sun going behind Mount Rossman ===
Flatzoid used a clip of Dave McKeegan saying that the sun was going behind Mount Rossman.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5sWcXU8QE <q>Unreal TFE</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In this context it simply means that the sun is further away than the mountain in the same direction as the mountain. It doesn't mean that the Mountain blocked the sun. Jeran shortly after in the same video was in Union Glacier Camp, where the sun can actually be blocked by the mountain at the end of the camp closest to the mountain.

=== Toon and Duffy aging ===
In the same video<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> as in the previous lie, Flatzoid also claims that Toon and Will aged a lot, by comparing a video taken by a phone by one of the organizers of the Antarctica marathon, with the videos taken in Will's and Toon's home respectively. Something flerfs haven't done is to compare the videos Toon and Duffy took earlier in the year with the footage after TFE when the conditions are the same. It's like they know it won't work if they do that.

The main problem is when were they supposed to be in Antarctica before? The marathon is only in southern summer, so if they went for example in June, they wouldn't have met the marathon guys. In fact they wouldn't even have met them if they went a week earlier or later. Furthermore in Southern winter, Antarctica has 24h night. They also couldn't have gone a year earlier, as the first teaser was released on February 14 2024.

MCToon filmed the interview with the marathon guys.
*[https://archive.org/details/MCToon-TFEAntarctica-20241211075044 Marathon Interview part 1]
*[https://archive.org/details/MCToon-TFEAntarctica-20241211082247 Marathon Interview part 2]

=== Union Glacier Camp not visible ===
Another lie is the claim that Toon and Duffy filmed the site off season, when Union Glacier Camp wasn't set up, because the camp isn't visible in the footage.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> In reality the camp is simply lower than halfway-point, where TFE was, as shown by the drone footage.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1yKGnMzVoE <q>The Final Experiment Mile High Drone with Ascent and Descent by Will Duffy Telemetry by WheresWally</q> by WheresWally]</ref>

[[File:Union-glacier-drone.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union-glacier-drone.png}}]]

=== Marathon runner breath ===
In a discussion with Witsit, Flatzoid claimed at the beginning that the breath of the marathon runners was always visible.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' We showed a video of the marathon runners there a day earlier and their breath was showing the whole time and they were also at Union Glacier. So why was it possible that their breath is always showing and your guys wasn't?<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=264 4:24 Flatzoid saying they always show their breath, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

When Witsit calls him out on that, he claims that he never said that we can always see the breath of the marathon runners.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Now you are lying because you didn't watch any of my content so when did I say we always see their breath? [...] I said most of the time.<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=942 15:42 Witsit calling Flatzoid out, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

The breath is visible depending on the lighting conditions as shown by Dave McKeegan.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MsLg8Pjf-k <q>Does #Vapegate and 'No breath' destroy 'The Final Experiment'?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:Breath.png|600px|link={{filepath:Breath.png}}]]

=== Flatzoid claims TFE was rendered in Unreal Engine ===
During a debate between Flatzoid and Dave McKeegan, Flatzoid claimed that he thinks that TFE could have been done in Unreal Engine.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' My uh idea is how they could have faked it was Duffy or someone could have gone earlier and and got high def HDRs uh surround environments of Antarctica, because when you look at the in the footage we don't see Union Glacier anywhere around there and they're only about 1.5 km away you should see Union Glacier camp we don't see Union Glacier camp at Mount Rossman. So that shows that they were either probably there when it was off-season when there were no tourists available, they were able to get their uh environment done, HDR environment done, and they could make recreate it in Unreal Engine 5 if they wanted to and therefore when they did all really go down in December they were able to just fake the sky and have the rest as a real environment.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=11820s 7:18 Flatzoid claiming TFE was faked in Unreal Engine, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>
</blockquote>

Dave McKeegan made a great video about how it's not possible to use Unreal Engine to fake TFE.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7h1gwmNzU <q>We faked the 24hr sun with Unreal Engine .... Apparently</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

As for the camp not being visible, [[Flatzoid#Union_Glacier_Camp_not_visible|that was already explained before]].

=== Camera glitching means that the video is fake? ===
In the discussion with Dave McKeegan, Dave showed the footage on his insta 360. Unfortunately the camera glitched and showed a green frame. Flatzoid, dishonest as usual, took that as evidence of fakery. <ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=1066 17:46 Camera glitch, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Dave camera glitch.png|400px|link={{filepath:"Dave camera glitch".png}}]]

=== Plane flight ceiling ===
According to Flatzoid the flight ceiling of planes flying over Antarctica is 13,000 feet.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2211 36:51 Flight ceiling, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why they have a ceiling of 13,000 ft when flying in Antarctica?
</blockquote>

Of course that's a lie. The planes fly at over 35,000 ft. Apparently Flatzoid already looked that up himself.

[[File:Antarctica altitude.png|400px|link={{filepath:Antarctica_altitude.png}}]]

=== Green Screen ===
[[File:Green_screen.png|400px|link={{filepath:Green_screen.png}}]]

Flatzoid tried to show how TFE was faked by supposedly using a green screen<ref>[https://youtu.be/fj7_F9qTv3k?t=1170 19:30 Flatzoid failing to understand green screens, <q>How to fake the final experiment</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, completely ignoring that the TFE team already showed that it's not possible for them to have used a green screen.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxC9cZx5Jcw <q>The Final Experiment Drone Supercut Time Synchronized Videos Debunking Dronegate 4K</q> by WheresWally]</ref> WheresWally's video also shows that a studio is not possible as they are walking through a vastly larger area, also the studio can't be used with multiple different cameras filming it from vastly different angles.

[[File:Drone_supercut.png|400px|link={{filepath:Drone_supercut.png}}]]

=== Snow ===
Flatzoid talks about Witsit walking a few meters away to get some snow.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Asked this many times. Uh, why did he walk away to get snow? Well his argument was there was no loose snow by him. Where if you look at the 360 footage, there is a lot of snow right by the camera on the barrel where his uh laptop was.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=634 10:34 Flatzoid talking about Witsit getting snow, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The area around the TFE location was compacted, so it's not easy to grab the snow. Witsit simply didn't notice the snow near the barrel, so he simply walked to a place outside of the compacted area to get some loose snow.

What is even the argument? Witsit didn't use the snow near the barrel, therefore that snow is fake? Either all the snow is fake or all is real. It makes no sense to use different kinds of material to use as snow.

Arctic Reflections made a video about the snow.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPwRaF4rq8g <q>The South African flat earth snow expert!</q> by Arctic Reflections]</ref>

=== Local sun ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's only two possibilities here the sun is real for some odd reason there and uh they filmed a local sun. Great so let's say we accepted their deception as real, yes then they just to proved that the sun was local and not 93 million miles away, but if we do uh also accept that it's just a deception and nothing they presented was actually evidential as true, it debunks them anyway because it also shows they had to fabricate it, because it didn't suit their narrative. So it doesn't matter which way they go. They proved the sun is not 93 million miles away and they proved it's not a globe.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=683 11:23 Flatzoid talking about the sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That makes absolutely no sense. How does the sun being real and the same angular size as it is in Uvongo South Africa, where Flatzoid filmed the sun, mean that the sun is locally moving 360° around Union Glacier, which doesn't work on any flat earth? The globe predicted the exact position of the sun and the resulting shadows for a sun that's about 151 million km away, on a rotating globe. The flat earth couldn't even predict that the sun would be visible for 24 hours or that the sun rises South of East in Uvongo, South Africa in Southern Summer as Flatzoid himself demonstrated.

There is no prediction of a local sun that matches the observations, so how is the local sun correct?

=== Footprints ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' When they were walking on that, um, on that compacted ice, snow, there was supposed to show footprints even if it is compacted. Remember it's got little ridges and they, their shoes have little, uh, you know, every all shoes, all in their soles always have little indentations and things like that. So it should break off pieces of that. It didn't break off nothing um and sometimes they walked that showed, sometimes it didn't, sometimes the the uh footprints, it just appeared out of nowhere. So yes the nonsense excuse of no there was it was just compact ice.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=745 12:25 Flatzoid complaining about lack of footprints, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The snow around the TFE camp was compacted so it's difficult to leave footprints. Footprints still accumulated over time as Dave McKeegan shows in his video.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1278 21:18 Dave McKeegan explaining footprints, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

Furthermore, Will Duffy's 24 non time lapse video shows the participants leave footprints.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Gv4nUyTQcVw?t=790 13:10 Leaving footprints in Antarctica, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 1)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

=== Weather reports ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I remember when we were still, um, watching the live from uh from Witsit and them and we were like, we went over the weather report there, and we're looking at the Witsit live weather report while they were there, and it was showing cloudy and windy, yet while they were live there was no clouds, there were, there was no wind and we've never got an answer to it at all.
</blockquote>

Antarctica is a large continent with very few weather stations. So the weather reports are less accurate than in more populated areas. There was a storm coming up, that's the reason they had to leave a day earlier.

=== Sun changing shape ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun shouldn't change um shape and stuff, if they claiming a 93 million mile away sun. Just to let you guys know, because that's why they claim the sun wouldn't change angular size, because it's too far away. So what's what is their excuse actually for the sun warping and going like this.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=918 15:18 Flatzoid claiming the sun changes shape, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The sun didn't actually change shape. It's literally just lens distortion as Dave McKeegan shows.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1481 24:41 Dave McKeegan explaining lens distortion, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> Furthermore the sun appearing to change shape, demonstrates that it's not possible that the background was added to the footage. It simply wouldn't happen with a fake background.

In his livestream, Dave McKeegan shows that the distortion of the sun is different between different cameras, making it impossible that they just added a background.<ref>[https://youtu.be/W9-BKj5_87A?t=17696 4:54:56 Dave McKeegan comparing the different camera footage, <q>Flat Earth desperation reaching new heights?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> It would require them to have a different background for each camera, with different lens distortions, while still matching the clouds.

[[File:Tfe_sun_comparison.png|800px|link={{filepath:Tfe_sun_comparison.png}}]]

=== Two suns ===

[[File:Two_suns.png|800px|link={{filepath:Two_suns.png}}]]

Flatzoid thinks that this frame shows the real sun at the bottom and a fake sun on at the top.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, this guys look, this, but look at that. When I saw this first I was like, hm could they just claim reflection or maybe the bottom is the real sun, the top is the fake one? Think about that guys because where's it reflecting off of because that's sky. That's where it's supposedly reflecting off of is sky. That is fake because even if you look at the sun angle, look at this it can more or less look like the sun's light is coming from there (from the bottom sun), not from there (from the top sun). Exactly. So this to me is a nail in the coffin. You can't have a reflection of the sun above the surface it's supposed to be on the surface and it also can't be a reflection, because if it's a curve, remember curves go like this, the light would not be able to go around like they're showing this. It wouldn't be able to be situated. It's showing it below the um the ground there, so that's a low sun, that is a fake sun. You can even see, look how clear (botom sun) that is and look how blurry (top sun). You see how clear this is, look how blurry the sun is there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1736 28:56 Flatzoid and the fake sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The bottom "sun" is a reflection on clouds. The actual sun is the one at the top. The sunlight clearly comes from above. If it came from below the hill Dave is standing on would be in shade, which it isn't. Furthermore, both suns are blurry because of the clouds.

We probably get more footage from that time once the documentary is released.

=== Sun in front of mountain ===
Flatzoid thinks the sun went in front of the mountain.

[[File:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun actually goes in front of the the mountain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1913 31:53 Flatzoid and the sun in front of the mountain, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That effect is literally just glare. The funny thing is that he filmed the same effect himself. Is he saying that the sun in his sunrise video went in front of the horizon?

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

=== Vanishing vehicles ===
Flatzoid thinks the vehicles just disappear.<ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=2147 35:47 Flatzoid confused by Vehicles going downhill, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In fact they simply went downhill as Union Glacier is lower than the TFE camp.

=== Date of Arrival ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' 10th of December. He claimed they literally got there and then they had to get ready and go eat, and then leave the next day, to uh go to uh Union Glacier. And they went to Union Glacier on the 14th. So that means his ticket that says the 10th of December shows he was at Punta Arenas way before he claimed to be there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=7166 1:59:26 Flatzoid and the ticket, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Jeran arrived on the 10th at Punta Arenas. They stayed a few days in Punta Arenas, where they did some observations like the sunset in the South West, before continuing their journey to Union Glacier. After they arrived at Union Glacier on the 14th that's when he said that they arrived, ate something and moved immediately to the TFE camp.

=== Calling Steve from England ===
Flatzoid had a livestream with Steve from England and Will Duffy to ask among other things about Will not calling Steve on the first day.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqXCpgOmmBM <q>Let's have a talk!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Steve was annoyed that he wasn't called the first day, even though Will specifically stated that he might not be able to call Steve on the first day.

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' So let's talk about the clouds for a second. So I don't know which day we're going to be able to do this. Um, maybe we can do it on the 14th, but if, but if we can't, maybe we'll do it on the 15th. We have, we have a few days, if there's cloud coverage, I think what we should do is, try to do it the next day, and I think we should try to do it each day until we have clear skies.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2457 40:57 Will talking about cloud coverage with Steve, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' I'm giving you my my word here publicly and I'm looking forward to doing this test with you specifically at that time one of the days we're there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2783 46:23 Will Duffy telling Steve that he will call one of the days he is in Antarctica, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

If having a live call is so important, Critical Think had one with his friend<ref name="critical_call">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Ij1lr5OKs <q>Conversations with a flattie about the Sun.</q> by Critical Think]</ref>. There is a second call, <q>Where are the guns</q> call between Toon and Oakley<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bwNkVviosM <q>I Called a Flat Earther from Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4Esq_qgGM <q>Two sides of a story: McToon calls Oakley</q> by Bert Rickles]</ref>. That call wasn't livestreamed, but the 360° cameras captured it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vzGvqEObA6c?t=2353 39:13 Where are the guns, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 3)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/jliLRasB48U?t=1157 19:17 Where are the guns, <q>360° Timelapse of capturing the 24hr Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

=== 24 hour live stream ===
Flatzoid and his panel like to bring up the TFE team not having a 24 hour livestream. Will never promised that they will have a 24 hour live stream, as he didn't know how well the Starlink would perform in Antarctica. He did attempt it, but because of a software update of his phone and Starlink, the stream was interrupted and in the end aborted. Flerfs like to demand the evidence they didn't get, and even if they did get it, they wouldn't accept it.

They also claim that the attempted 24h livestream was taken down at the time the sun set, which is not true. The Starlink update happened during MCToon's livestream<ref name="local_midnight">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQ7nklL8X4 <q>Live 100% Flat Earth Destruction Guaranteed</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> between 2 and 3 hours after solar midnight when the sun is in direction of Mount Rossman at the lowest point it can be.

There were multiple live streams during TFE
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LNSbStu9c <q>It's Midnight in Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1vXwAT6P5k <q>There Are No Green Screens in Antarctica (Here's Proof!)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBIyN7ZWifE <q>The Final Experiment Live from Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref name="local_midnight"/>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDJlAfTgns <q>Critical Think is live at Union Glacier</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref name="critical_call"/>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQknVsqbDfg <q>Critical Think in Antarctica live with the Wolf Pack</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOYpeysawuw <q>The 24 hour sun has been captured in Antarctica!</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOW_FTWMVV0 <q>We are LIVE from ANTARCTICA. Like WTF. Share this! Insanity</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPNmpiwl5Vs <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nteDLN8kX2k <q>SUNSPOT Observations from 80 Degrees South</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjTegLsl6lQ <q>My Last Live From The Ice. Goodbye Antarctica! You Will Not Be Missed!</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3839ioLw6-o <q>Flat Earther and Film Maker on #TheFinalExperiment - Live From Antarctica!</q> by Jonathan Mariande]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxzu2reS_o <q>Live from Antarctica - One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Flat Earth</q> by Witsit Gets It]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idrvFgrMK_A <q>Showing experiments in Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
, the ones taking place outside at halfway point, were all captured by the 360° cameras.

Of course they are just claiming that all of those were fake.

Flatzoid is also claiming that he is still waiting for the 24h footage.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah we're still waiting for the 24hour footage they claim to give us.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=453 7:33 Flatzoid waiting for 24h footage, <q></q>]</ref>

The 24h footage has already been uploaded to YouTube.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv4nUyTQcVw <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 1)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dC_06X8bto <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 2)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzGvqEObA6c <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 3)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

Of course, when he was told about the videos, he just lied about them.

[[File:moving_goalposts.png|500px|link={{filepath:moving_goalposts.png}}]]

[[File:moving_goalposts_2.png|500px|link={{filepath:moving_goalposts.png}}]]

=== Jeran said the sun set ===
The most ridiculous claim of fakery is the claim that Jeran said the sun sets. First Steve from England claimed that Jeran said the sun sets, which was debunked by DP Debunks.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pco9fPVPZs <q>Steve, Where’s My £1000? I Proved You Wrong!</q> by DP Debunks]</ref> Steve even acknowledged to be wrong and paid the 1000 £.

Now a new claim about Jeran saying the sun sets, was presented on Flatzoid's livestream.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TWRYniB1k40?t=3588 59:48 Jeran saying the sun sets?, <q>TFE The Final Experiment faked? Talk</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> By watching just a few seconds longer, it becomes clear that Jeran was talking about when he set up his mount.<ref>[https://youtu.be/VPNmpiwl5Vs?t=415 6:55 Jeran talking about setting up his mount, <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref> He simply wanted to make sure that he captured a full 24 hours, and wasn't a few minutes short.

=== Clockwise and counterclockwise ===
Flatzoid thinks that the sun in Antarctica, as filmed during TFE, moves counterclockwise.<ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=7397 2:03:17 Flatzoid confused by clockwise and counterclockwise, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> The problem is that he is thinking about the sun's movement as seen from above, but the direction is determined by looking at it from below. Dave McKeegan explains that in his video.<ref>[https://youtu.be/CK1ZNRu_3T0 <q>Flat Earthers confused by Left & Right</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> It's best seen in Toon's time lapse filming the shadows.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9comYMcMcio?t=1405 23:25 <q>THE FINAL EXPERIMENTS - Shadow Predictions</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Either way, the sun moves in different directions depending if you are North of the equator or South of it, which the globe predicts, but the flat earth can't account for.

===24h sunlight ===
Flatzoid claims that it's just 24h sunlight in Antarctica, but the sun is not visible, while at the same saying that the sun is visible for months.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' In Antarctica, there are periods of 24 hours of sunlight during the summer, not 24 hours of the sun in the sky. The sun is visible for months on end during the Antarctic summer, but it's still technically the 24-hour period, just with sunlight present the entire time.
</blockquote>

== Space ==
=== Van Allen Belts ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Do you know they didn't even know about the Van Allen radiation belt on Apollo 11?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=3470 57:50 Flatzoid talking about the Van Allen Belts, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The Van Allen radiation belt were discovered in 1958, over ten years before Apollo 11.

<blockquote>
Located beyond low-Earth orbit, these radiation belts were discovered in 1958 by astrophysicist James Van Allen who helped uncover the key to enabling exploration of the outer solar system. Van Allen calculated that it was possible to fly through the weaker regions of radiation to reach outer space.
</blockquote><ref>[https://science.nasa.gov/biological-physical/stories/van-allen-belts/ <q>What are the Van Allen Belts and why do they matter?</q> by NASA]</ref>

=== Planets ===
According to Flatzoid planets are just lights in the sky.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean what are the planets first of all? You just that at the moment they're just lights in the sky. [...] That's all we observe.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=2108 35:08 Flatzoid claiming that planets are just lights in the sky, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is simply not true. Anyone with a decent telescope can observe the planets and see for themselves that they are actually physical objects.<ref>[https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/astrophotography/astrophoto-tips/how-to-photograph-planets <q>How to photograph the planets</q> by sky at night magazine]</ref> Calling something a light in the sky doesn't even mean anything. Light doesn't just appear. It needs a source, like a star or it's being reflected on a surface, like a planet.



= Showcasing His Stupidity =

== Math ==
=== Flatzoid doesn't understand variables in geometry ===
Flatzoid thinks he understands geometry better than anyone else. But in this post he demonstrates that he has no idea. The correct answer is arctan(opposite/adjacent). He wrote 45° which would be wrong even for this example as the triangle is very clearly not a 45-45-90 triangle. 
[[File:Flatzoid_solving_a_triangle.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_solving_a_triangle.jpg}}]]

=== Angle is a hypotenuse? ===
Flatzoid thinks that an angle is a hypotenuse. The clip is in one of FTFE's videos, as I couldn't find the original video.

[[File:Flatzoid-hypotenuse.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-hypotenuse.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' the 45 degree that you at the sun [...] would that be a hypotenuse of a right angle triangle?
</blockquote> <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq0qUkFhG-s <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - FTFE VS Matthew Hakim - Was The Final Experiment A Hoax?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid-hypotenuse-discord.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-hypotenuse-discord.png}}]]

Here is an example of what the hypotenuse actually is. The hypotenuse is side a, the side opposite of the right angle at point A. As you can see a hypotenuse does not represent a 45° angle, as none of the angles in the following example even is 45°. Even with 45° angles, a hypotenuse doesn't represent an angle.

[[File:Right-angle-triangle.png|400px|link={{filepath:Right-angle-triangle.png}}]]

=== Measurements and calculations ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that you can measure things through calculations.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Obviously they calculate the earth circumference. I want to point out calculate is not measured. There's a difference between calculation and measured because if you measured it you'd have to physically know what to do, and because the earth is so large and there's no way to actually measure the earth other than um the instruments we got today, which is based off of a horizontal measurement and then calculate it into whatever you need it to be. So yes calculations um measurements are two different things and that's why they calculated the circumference not measured it. So they assumed there is a sphere they assumed there is a radius they took a measurement of an angle and that angle was then calculated to give the radius circumference.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=549 9:09 Flatzoid claiming calculations aren't measurements, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

You can measure things with calculations. It's simple geometry. For example you can measure Earth's circumference by measuring the angle of shadows between two locations a known distance apart. That's how Eratosthenes measured Earth's circumference.<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_circumference#Eratosthenes <q>Earth's_circumference</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

[[File:Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg.png|400px|link={{filepath:Eratosthenes_measure_of_Earth_circumference.svg.png}}]]

=== Multiplications ===
Flatzoid can't do multiplications.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Xdb_x64a86s?t=8652 2:24:12 Flatzoid trying to multiply, <q>Ask Us anything?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Arcminutes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Arcminutes.png}}]]

As anyone who ever used a calculator can verify, if 1° is 60 minutes then 360° is 360 * 60 = 21600 minutes, not 1440. He even shows that 1440 is 24 * 60, not 360 * 60.

When Tiny Captain calls him out on that and the [[Flatzoid#11_Frames|11 frames]] and his [[Flatzoid#Celestial_Navigation|celestial navigation]] lies, Flatzoid uses the excuse of misrepresentation.

[[File:Tiny_captain_flatzoid_lies.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:Tiny_captain_flatzoid_lies.jpg}}]]

=== Angle to Stars ===
Flatzoid tries to show how to determine the distance to the Ground Position (GP) of a star by using the elevation angle. As the illustration shows, the altitude of the star has to change to have a constant distance between the measured elevation angles. As a side note, that shows that you can measure distances by using calculations.

[[File:Flatzoid_polaris.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_polaris.png}}]]

* At 600 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,402.76909 NM
* At 1200 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,296.9729 NM
* At 1800 NM the star is at an altitude of 3,117.69145 NM
* At 2400 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,860.20862 NM
* At 3000 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,517.29889 NM
* At 3600 NM the star is at an altitude of 2,078.46097 NM
* At 4200 NM the star is at an altitude of 1,528.67498 NM
* At 4800 NM the star is at an altitude of 846.36951 NM
* At 5400 NM the star is at an altitude of 0 NM

It's not just that it looks that way. On a flat Earth the star actually has to go physically lower. If the star keeps its altitude the distance between each degree won't be the same.

Let's set the star at an altitude of 4,000 NM.

* At 600 NM the star is at an angle of 81.469°
* At 1200 NM the star is at an angle of 73.301°
* At 1800 NM the star is at an angle of 65.772°
* At 2400 NM the star is at an angle of 59.036°
* At 3000 NM the star is at an angle of 53.13°
* At 3600 NM the star is at an angle of 48.013°
* At 4200 NM the star is at an angle of 43.603°
* At 4800 NM the star is at an angle of 39.806°
* At 5400 NM the star is at an angle of 36.529°

As you can see, on a flat earth the 60 NM per degree simply doesn't work.

=== Derivative of velocity ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that acceleration is the derivative of velocity, which in turn is the derivative of position.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' What's the difference between acceleration and velocity?

'''Wesley:''' Acceleration is velocity um the integral, sorry integral or, no it's the derivative of velocity.

'''Flatzoid:''' No.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=1680 28:00 Flatzoid not understanding derivatives, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Time derivatives of position.png|300px|link={{filepath:Time derivatives of position.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Wikipedia:''' In physics, the fourth, fifth and sixth derivatives of position are defined as derivatives of the position vector with respect to time – with the first, second, and third derivatives being velocity, acceleration, and jerk, respectively.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth,_fifth,_and_sixth_derivatives_of_position <q>Fourth, fifth, and sixth derivatives of position</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

=== Centimeters to meters ===
Flatzoid had to use Google to convert centimeters to meters.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0eTKD5M105c?t=7410 2:03:30 Flatzoid converting centimeters to meters <q>Flat Earth Friday: God’s Firmament Exposes NASA’s Lies | The Bible vs The Globe</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:flatzoid_centimeters.png|600px|link={{filepath:flatzoid_centimeters.png}}]]

=== Right angle is 60 degrees ===

[[File:Right_angle.png|800px|link={{filepath:Right_angle.png}}]]

== Physics ==
The University of Colorado has a good collection of [https://phet.colorado.edu/en/simulations/filter?type=html simulations] that help to illustrate some comcepts in physics.

=== Sunglare needs an atmosphere? ===
Flatzoid claimed that glare needs an atmosphere while he was looking at photos taken by Blue Ghost from the moon. <ref>[https://youtu.be/qSlnZD3ji0g?t=2728 45:28 Looking at Blue Ghost photos, <q>Mctoons Flerf Wiki Obsession</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective and reference frames ===
Dave McKeegan explained in a video how Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective parallax etc, by using a video made by UThink. Flatzoid reviews that video and demonstrates once again he doesn't understand it. <ref>[https://youtu.be/tQAqABZ6i0U?t=4399 1:13:19 <q>TFE Fakery and some U2 Spy Plane action</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Flatzoid thinks that if Earth moves, the roundabout in the animation, that the camera must move relative to the ground to keep the table in view.

=== Magnetism vs Gravity ===
In a discussion between Flatzoid and FTFE, they were comparing gravity and magnetism. Flatzoid is fine with changing the magnetic field by adding charge, but at the same time he doesn't accept changing mass to change the force of gravity.<ref>[https://youtu.be/IZwSCTKqdkE?t=937 15:37 Magnetism vs Gravity, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - FTFE VS Flatzoid - Gravity & The 2nd Law Of Thermodynamics</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

=== Haze ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that haze makes the sun look smaller.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out look at the sun does that look anything like we saw from their footage?

'''SSUM:''' Not even close.

'''???:''' Not even close, nope.

'''Flatzoid:''' Look how at the angular size. That's quite odd.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/GEmFjWYn1Cs?t=4168 1:09:28 Flatzoid not understanding haze, <q>TFE shows more fakery?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Haze.png|500px|link={{filepath:Haze.png}}]]

=== Water ===
According to Flatzoid water at rest doesn't curve.<ref>[https://youtu.be/-pg9mfiv1FA?t=1887 31:27 Water doesn't curve at rest according to Flatzoid, <q>Convince us Christianity and flat earth is false?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

In fact it does curve when at rest.<ref>[https://physicsexperiments.eu/4302/water-droplets-on-various-surfaces <q>Water droplets on various surfaces</q> by physicsexperiments]</ref> The fact that it's caused by surface tension doesn't change that water at rest is curving.

[[File:Water_drops.png|500px|link={{filepath:Water_drops.png}}]]

If we go to larger scales, water is never at rest because of currents, wind, and other forces acting on it.

=== First Law of Thermodynamics ===
Flatzoid had a discussion with Brenda about the laws of thermodynamics.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=1870 31:10 Flatzoid discussing thermodynamics with Brenda <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The laws of thermodynamics only apply within the universe, not to the origin of the universe.

Of course his claim is that the universe violates the first law of thermodynamics. His understanding of the Big Bang is the typical creationist claim "everything comes from nothing." That's of course not how the Big Bang is described.

<blockquote>
The Big Bang Theory stands as the most widely accepted explanation for the origin of the universe. According to this theory, the universe began as an infinitely small, hot, and dense point, which rapidly expanded and continued to stretch over 13.7 billion years. This initial period of rapid inflation set the stage for the vast and still-growing cosmos we observe today.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html <q>What is the Big Bang Theory?</q> by space.com]</ref>

Obviously he won't accept the matter always existing, like he believes for God, or that it appears from nothing, like how God made the universe according to the bible. Using his own logic, God violates the first law of thermodynamics, which he is perfectly fine with.

=== Second Law of Thermodynamics ===
According to Flatzoid the second law of thermodynamics states that gas pressure needs a container, which is wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' According to the second law of thermodynamics, gas pressure will require containment. Why? Because gas will always seek to available uh space, and if we don't have this uh containment holding it in, it will have, what we call free expansion of gas, so it will expand freely into the available space around it. So if space is real and you have no container, the gas we breathe will just all fill that available space and therefore we'd all be dead. Well and eventually it'll lose its elasticity, it'll stop bouncing off stuff and it it it'll lose its energy, gas pressure, because gas moves in all directions constantly. It would have to have a um a collision to come back. The fact we have gas where we are means it's having collisions to come back.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=924 15:24 Flatzoid explaining the second law of thermodynamics, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Some definitions of the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

<blockquote>
'''William Thomson (Lord Kelvin):''' A cyclic transformation whose only final result is to transform heat extracted from a source which is at the same temperature throughout into work is impossible.

'''Rudolf Clausius:''' A cyclic transformation whose only final result is to transfer heat from a body at a given temperature to a body at a higher temperature is impossible.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/second-law-of-thermodynamics <q>second law of thermodynamics</q> by Britannica]</ref>

As anyone can see at a glance, the law talks about heat and temperature, not about gas pressure. Furthermore the existence of the pressure gradient demonstrates that gas does not fill the available space even if there was a dome.

=== Open System ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Earth is claimed to be an open system so therefore gas will be bouncing in and out of this open system to the surrounding area.
</blockquote>

Earth being an open system doesn't mean that the gas will just leave. There are forces keeping the gas from leaving, namely the attraction between objects with mass called gravity, the same force that prevents his coffee from leaving the mug. Of course he is going to claim that gravity is not a force, which in no way refutes the fact that objects including gas are attracted to Earth.

=== Heat and Temperature ===
<blockquote>
'''What is heat?'''

Heat is essentially the transfer of thermal energy between objects or systems due to a temperature difference. It resembles the flow of energy, akin to current moving through a wire. For example, when you toss a hot potato to a friend, the thermal energy—heat—moves from the potato (higher temperature) to your friend’s hand (lower temperature). Heat is measured in joules (J), and the greater the temperature difference between the objects, the faster the heat is transferred.

'''What is temperature?'''

Temperature, on the other hand, measures the average kinetic energy of the particles within an object. Consider it as the intensity of heat. The faster the particles vibrate or move, the higher the temperature, and vice versa Thus, the hot coffee has particles with higher average kinetic energy compared to the cup holding it, even if they display the same temperature reading. Temperature is a property of a system, similar to its length or mass, and is measured using scales like Celsius (°C), Fahrenheit (°F), or Kelvin (K).
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.dabedan.com/en/understanding-the-difference-between-heat-and-temperature/ <q>Difference between heat and temperature</q> by Dabedan]</ref>

=== Buoyancy ===
Buoyancy is also one of the topics that flerfs in general, including Flatzoid don't understand.

<blockquote>
When an object is immersed in a fluid, wholly or partially, the fluid exerts an upward force opposite its weight. This phenomenon is known as buoyancy, and the upward thrust is known as the buoyant force. A characteristic of buoyancy is that it determines whether an object will float or sink.
</blockquote><ref name="sciencefacts-buoyancy">[https://www.sciencefacts.net/buoyancy.html <q>Buoyancy</q> by sciencefacts]</ref>

[[File:Buoyancy_without_gravity.png|800px|link={{filepath:Buoyancy_without_gravity.png}}]]

[[File:Buoyant-Force-Equation.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Buoyant-Force-Equation.jpg}}]]

As you can see buoyancy includes gravity. The simpler explanations for children often use the term weight instead, which is mass times the acceleration due to gravity, so those also include gravity. You can't use buoyancy without a force for it to counteract. It doesn't specifically need to use gravity, any acceleration will do. For example you could use the acceleration caused by a centrifuge. The direction of the forces will be different, but a force is still required.

In a zero g environment, buoyancy doesn't work. As seen below in the experiment done by taikonauts on the Chinese space station.

[[File:Buoyancy_zero_g.png|500px|link={{filepath:Buoyancy_zero_g.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qEzdxLls5k <q>Taikonauts teach class on water buoyancy in absence of gravity<q> by CGTN]</ref>

I would like Owen to present his source explaining buoyancy without using gravity or weight, which is also using gravity.

=== Atmospheric pressure and gas pressure===
Flatzoid confuses atmospheric pressure and gas pressure.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2556 42:36 Flatzoid using gas pressure, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Gas pressure is specifically the pressure of gas inside a container exerting on the container walls. Atmospheric pressure on the other hand is the pressure caused by the weight of air being pulled towards Earth by gravity.

<blockquote>
The earth’s atmosphere exerts a pressure, as does any other gas. Although we do not normally notice atmospheric pressure, we are sensitive to pressure changes—for example, when your ears “pop” during take-off and landing while flying, or when you dive underwater. Gas pressure is caused by the force exerted by gas molecules colliding with the surfaces of objects (Figure 1). Although the force of each collision is very small, any surface of appreciable area experiences a large number of collisions in a short time, which can result in a high pressure. In fact, normal air pressure is strong enough to crush a metal container when not balanced by equal pressure from inside the container.
</blockquote><ref>[https://courses.lumenlearning.com/chemistryformajors/chapter/gas-pressure-2/ <q>Gas Pressure</q> by Lumen Learning]</ref>

[[File:Atmospheric_pressure.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Atmospheric_pressure.jpg}}]]

Pressure itself is a force over area. To have pressure you don't need a container, just a surface, like the ground.

=== Gases defying gravity ===
One of Flatzoid's fans claims that gases are not affected by gravity, which is simply not true.

[[File:gases_dont_fall.png|800px|link={{filepath:gases_dont_fall.png}}]]

For example an aluminium boat can float on sulphur hexafluoride. That shows that gases like everything else are also being pulled down towards earth and that they also exert buoyancy.

[[File:Air_boat.png|500px|link={{filepath:Air_boat.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZwkNDOhNzA <q>This Boat Floats On Air! | Xploration DIY SCI<q> by Da Vinci Kids]</ref>

The difference is that gases are generally at higher altitudes as they are less dense than people. Let's use a density tower as an example.

[[File:Density_tower.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Density_tower.webp}}]]

Let's say the cherry tomato represents a human. Essentially the argument used is that the ping pong ball is not being pulled down, because it goes up when placed at the same height as the tomato.

[[File:Gravity_and_buoyancy.png|800px|link={{filepath:Gravity_and_buoyancy.png}}]]

Just like the ping pong ball is still being pulled down by gravity, despite being higher than the cherry tomato, gases are being pulled down despite being higher than humans. He seems to understand it when it comes to boats and water, but not when it comes to gases. Gases are affected by the same forces as liquids. The difference is that gases tend to mix and are more easily dispersed.

When removing the water the boat goes down because you remove the upwards force of buoyancy. Funny that by removing buoyancy, objects continue to go down, as if there is a downwards force...

=== Natural law ===
Flatzoid claims that thermodynamics is a natural law.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2942 49:02 Flatzoid and natural law, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

A natural law is a philosophical term it has nothing to do with physics including thermodynamics.
<blockquote>
The term “natural law” is ambiguous. It refers to a type of moral theory, as well as to a type of legal theory, but the core claims of the two kinds of theory are logically independent.
</blockquote><ref>[https://iep.utm.edu/natlaw/ <q>Natural Law</q> by Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]</ref>

He might confuse them with laws of nature<ref>[https://iep.utm.edu/lawofnat/ <q>Laws of Nature</q> by Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]</ref>, which are used in metaphysics. Even that doesn't apply, as the laws of thermodynamics are scientific laws.

=== Ideal gas laws ===
Flatzoid claims that the ideal gas laws require a container, which is simply not true. He even made a presentation about it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=2730 45:30 Flatzoid's thermodynamics presentation, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> There are often depictions of containers to describe the laws, but none of them ever states that they only work within a container. No Flatzoid, volume doesn't mean there is a container.

The Kinetic Molecular theory, also specifically only applies to ideal gases.

<blockquote>
The theory applies specifically to a model of gas called an ideal gas. An ideal gas is an imaginary gas whose behavior perfectly fits all the assumptions of the kinetic-molecular theory. In reality, gases are not ideal, but are very close to being so under most everyday conditions.
</blockquote><ref>[https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Introductory_Chemistry/Introductory_Chemistry_(CK-12)/13%3A_States_of_Matter/13.01%3A_Kinetic_Molecular_Theory <q>Kinetic Molecular Theory</q> by Libretexts.org]</ref>

The atmosphere is not an ideal gas, so the ideal gas laws don't even apply.

Something being ideal means that it's the way people want it to be. It's generally a simplified version of reality. For example, ignoring friction and air resistance are commonly used to idealize calculations about motion. For ideal gas laws, the collisions are idealized to be perfectly elastic, which is never actually the case. Furthermore they also ignore the effects of other forces like gravity.

So, using something ideal, is generally something that doesn't happen that way in reality.

=== Dynamic and Ideal Systems ===
Flatzoid thinks that we either live in a dynamic or an ideal system.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=3249 54:09 Flatzoid not understanding dynamic systems, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Ideal systems and dynamic systems are not mutually exclusive. A dynamic system is basically a system that keeps changing over time. It can be ideal or not ideal. The opposite for a dynamic system would be a static system, which as well can be ideal or not ideal.

The ideal gases for example are dynamic. It's already dynamic by changing one variable over time. Charles's Law for example changes the temperature, which leads to a change in pressure and volume of the gas.

=== Transfer of energy of gases ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that gases also transfer heat.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's no transfer of energy from a gas molecule to a container.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Bxst7jzKA14?t=3397 56:37 Flatzoid not understanding convection, <q>Flat Earth, Fact or Fiction?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Gas can transfer heat by convection. That's how radiators heat up houses. Furthermore, you can also increase the temperature of a container by increasing the pressure. Simply use a bicycle pump, block the valve and compress the air. The pump will heat up.

=== 9.8 m/s^2 only in a vaccuum ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Well 9.8 m/s squared is actually only in a vacuum.
</blockquote>

That is as usual not true. What happens in air for example is the addition of air resistance. The acceleration of the mass is still the same, there is simply another force acting on the object.

There is a simple experiment that everyone can do to show that.
# Use a ball or any object that floats.
# Measure its weight.
# Put a bowl filled with water, large enough for the ball, on the scale.
# Reset the scale, so the weight of the bowl and the water are ignored.
# Put the ball in the bowl.
# Measure its weight again.

The scale will show the same weight before and after putting the ball in the bowl, within a margin of error.

Technically using water does increase the gravitational attraction by a tiny amount, due to it having more mass than air, but a kitchen scale is nowhere near precise enough to pick that up.

=== Combustion Engine ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' What happens when, uh you cool, the cool air comes in and it heats up?

'''Wesley:''' Um do you know how they heat it up?

[...]

'''Flatzoid:''' With bang. [...] Spark and fuel make kaboom, heat up, pressure increase.

'''Wesley:''' You are wrong.

'''Flatzoid:''' Please show me a combustion engine without spark. Go ahead and, fuel ,go ahead and show me.

'''Wesley:''' You're right but it it pressurizes it first to heat it up.

'''Flatzoid:''' The cold air is denser so guess what happens. It fills up, and then you have heating it up due to the kaboom in the spark and the fuel, and it heats up and causes extra energy, so it heats up and it moves faster, and the pressure increases Wesley. That's why, that's why, it pushes, wait, that's why it pushes the piston which then moves the conrod, to move that little dinky car you are thinking of in your brain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/BRxxumMBpCo?t=8716 2:25:16 Flatzoid messing up combustion engines, <q>🔴 LIVE: 4 Hours, 4 Topics — You Choose the Discussion! | Flat Earth, Bible, Prophecy & More</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Of course when Flatzoid was called out for his mistake in the comments he denied it ever happened.

[[File:Flatzoid_engine.png|800px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_engine.png}}]]

To fulfill Flatzoid's request, a diesel engine is a combustion engine without spark.

How Stuff Works has a proper explanation of how combustion engines work. Both for Otto motors (see below)<ref>[https://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm <q>How Car Engines Work</q> by How Stuff Works]</ref> and diesel engines <ref>[https://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm <q>How Diesel Engines Work</q> by How Stuff Works]</ref>
<blockquote>
The piston is connected to the crankshaft by a connecting rod. As the crankshaft revolves, it has the effect of "resetting the cannon." Here's what happens as the engine goes through its cycle:

#The piston starts at the top, the intake valve opens, and the piston moves down to let the engine take in a cylinder full of air and gasoline. This is the intake stroke. Only the tiniest drop of gasoline needs to be mixed into the air for this to work. (Part 1 of the animation)
#Then the piston moves back up to compress this fuel/air mixture. Compression makes the explosion more powerful. (Part 2 of the animation)
#When the piston reaches the top of its stroke, the spark plug emits a spark to ignite the gasoline. The gasoline charge in the cylinder explodes, driving the piston down. (Part 3 of the animation)
#Once the piston hits the bottom of its stroke, the exhaust valve opens and the exhaust leaves the cylinder to go out the tailpipe. (Part 4 of the animation)

Now the engine is ready for the next cycle, so it intakes another charge of air and gas.
</blockquote>

=== Orbits ===
Luka had a discussion with Flatzoid's panel member Barry Ross about orbits. Flatzoid agrees with Barry.

<blockquote>
'''Barry Ross:''' Luka if gravity is a mass attracting mass, then why are we not attracted to other planets and the sun? Why have we not all bumped into each other yet?

'''PJ:''' Right?

'''Luka:''' Well, we have we have the mass of the earth to think for that mostly.

'''Barry Ross:''' So what's keeping the mass of the moon from to the mass of the earth, Luka?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4939 <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First, earth is attracted to the other planets and the sun. Earth and all the planets orbit the sun, as its attraction is so great. The attraction between the planets is relatively small, so unless they are close to each other they won't have much of an effect.

Neptune was discovered because of its gravitational effect on Uranus' orbit.

Gravity attracts objects near planets. When they are too slow they crash into earth, when they are to fast they move away from earth. At the right velocity, the object moves around, because gravity makes the object take a curved path. The university of Colorado has a nice Simulation to illustrate this.<ref>[https://phet.colorado.edu/sims/html/gravity-and-orbits/latest/gravity-and-orbits_all.html <q>Gravity and Orbits</q> by University of Colorado]</ref>

=== Perspective ===
Like literally every flerf, Flatzoid doesn't understand perspective. Perspective doesn't make objects appear below the horizon.

[[File:perspective.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:perspective.jpg}}]]
<ref>[https://flatearth.ws/perspective <q>Flat-Earth “Perspective” is not Real-World Perspective</q> by flatearth.ws]</ref>

== Globe ==
=== Flatzoid confuses East and West ===
When Critical Think had a discussion with a flerf friend, his friend stated that the sun is West of his position in Brisbane Australia, while it was South of Union Glacier.<ref>[https://youtu.be/6-Ij1lr5OKs?t=66 1:06 <q>Conversations with a flattie about the Sun.</q> by Critical Think]</ref> Flatzoid tried debunking it by confusing East and West. He took down his videos after [[Rachie 00000]] called him out.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPekiXVyKyw <q>Flatzoid Can't East And West</q> by Rachie 00000]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nGwR__Ww0w <q>Flat Earther Fails At Navigation Without Leaving The House</q> by Rachie 00000]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid-east-west.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-east-west.png}}]]

=== Flatzoid also doesn't understand South ===
In another live stream, Flatzoid demonstrates that he also doesn't understand how to travel South on the globe.<ref>[https://youtu.be/5A2rnhKYezI?t=9042 2:30:42 <q>Tomorrow's World Viewpoint thought nobody would notice the lie?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Flatzoid and the South pole ===
Flatzoid thinks that the existence of the South pole in reality is a straw-man, because the flat earth doesn't have a South pole. He also doesn't understand that 90° is not a single location on a flat earth. It's only a single location on the globe.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/tK81Jp_XTJk?t=3106 51:46 <q>The Pole is Duffy's new strawman</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Will Duffy asked him to point out where 90° South is on a map, which of course Flatzoid couldn't answer and just kept deflecting.<ref name="flatzoid south pole"/>

In case Flatzoid reads the wiki. The sign of Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station shows Antarctica as the continent it is on the globe.

[[File:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg}}]]

In another stream, Flatzoid's panel talks about there being seven South Poles and Flatzoid just accepts that as truth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=277 4:37 The seven poles, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Sun is North of Union Glacier? ===
While discussing The Final Experiment's observation of the Sun in Antarctica, Flatzoid referred to the Time and Date's map on their website for December 14, 2024, and said that since the Sun's icon was placed north of Antarctica on the map at local midnight, the participants of TFE were lying because they saw the Sun towards their South, as it should have been North of them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/tp4cssxfJd8?si=r5U1zvOnlQU-Bmj4&t=6296 1:44:56 <q>It's a Psyop 5k special</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The first mistake he made is that he use midnight UTC, which is not local midnight. At that time the sun is West of the TFE camp.

[[File:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png}}]]

Local Midnight is around 6:00 UTC.

[[File:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png}}]]

The second mistake is that he treated a [[Wikipedia:Cylindrical projection|cylindrical map projection]] as representative of globe geometry (just like flerfs do when claiming [[Flight paths|flight paths don’t work on a globe]]). This is so elementary as to be plainly dishonest.

On the globe the actual position of the sun is indeed South of Union Glacier at local midnight in the direction of Mount Rossman. The worst part is that Flatzoid actually knows that. He showed that in a [[Flatzoid#Flatzoid_confuses_East_and_West|previous stream]] where he confused East and West using Google Earth.

[[File:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png}}]]

In case Flatzoid complains about the compass in the top right corner showing North towards the left, that's because my position above the globe is slightly left of the South Pole. It's in the direction of South from the position of the TFE camp.

=== South Celestial Pole ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand how you can use the stars around a celestial pole to navigate.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you've ever used navigation with the Stars and stuff, which I have in the bush, yet you can't tell you're going exactly straight by following a star because the stars are following a circular path. You're following that that um that star you are following its circular path. So you think you're going straight but you're actually taking a circular path.

'''David Sanch:''' All right but we have latitude though. Like we talked about the 69 nautical miles you're able to go in a straight line from the North Pole of Polaris straight down one degree, one degree, one degree, all the way until you get to the equator correct, and stay in a straight line.

'''Flatzoid:''' The thing is Stars always travel east to west. Okay, you would agree that's taking a circular route.

'''David Sanch:''' Yeah, yeah, but you're you're not focusing on those Stars you're just focusing on Polaris.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, no, no, so if you no not Polaris I'm saying Stars so if you're focusing on following, let's say the Southern Cross which is taking, yeah a circular path east to west of the sky you are following that circular path you're not going straight.

'''David Sanch:'''No you want to just find what is rotating around and you go straight at that.

'''Flatzoid:''' So you're not taking a straight path so in other words it's taking...

'''Michael Khan:''' There's no star to look we we seen in itself that that thing that they say it's rotating around. There isn't a star there.

'''David Sanch:''' But you could, you could place your own imaginary Star right in the center and just travel towards that.

'''Michael Khan:''' You can because you you only see them rotating Stars when someone does a star Trail time lapse on a boat in South. You're not seeing Stars doing a circular motion.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, you don't don't long exposure you don't do long exposure to look at stars.

'''Michael Khan:''' Only Stars the probably use that Southern Cross for navigation itself like Flatzoid says they're constantly moving.

'''David Sanch:''' So you're you're saying there 100% is no South Celestial pole?

'''Flatzoid:''' No not as what the globe claims.

'''Michael Khan:''' No cuz I know flat there.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah ceremonial there's no Geographic South Pole. Now David why you would like to disprove something which you can't.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/MeJmAv-Uv_Q?t=6107 1:42:15 Flatzoid and David talking about the celestial South Pole <q>Let's have a talk</q> (March 16) by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Here is a photo of the celestial South Pole taken at the South African Large Telescope.<ref>[https://www.salt.ac.za/galleries/photo-gallery <q>South Africa Large Telescope gallery</q>]</ref>

[[File:South-africa-star-trails.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:South-africa-star-trails.jpg}}]]

Flatzoid even explains how he doesn't understand the difference between the South Celestial Pole and the Pole Star.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The so-called south celestial pole you're talking about doesn't exist, because it's a globe claim. For a south celestial pole to exist means you got a globe with a north and a south axial tilt. There is no axial tilt of a globe, so therefore there is no south celestial pole. Now there is an observed observation seeming for the stars in the south to go around a point, which doesn't have a south celestial pole, because there is no south celestial pole uh star. To say they've assigned it to the closest uh star would be Sigma Octantis, which is hardly visible anyway. Um so this is again him just ignoring all these things told to him before, and yes you are able to have those observations because if it's a reflection from the north to the south on the dome. You will see the inverse which is the same as seeing it in the opposite direction as you call it, which is practically just you not understanding that direction is always east to west, but your perception on your location gives you appears to be right to left or left to right. It's always the same operation.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zTOsyaAO80 Flatzoid confusing the South Celestial pole with the pole star <q> A very confused man explains something he doesn’t understand. ‪@CrealityPodcast‬ </q> by Eduardo Igirisu 6]</ref>

A celestial pole is the point around which the stars appear to move around. There are two, directly above the geographic North and South Pole. A polestar is a star that's closest to the celestial pole.

[[File:Celestial_poles.png|400px|link={{filepath:Celestial_poles.png}}]]

=== Star location ===
He is also claiming that the stars didn't change over the millenia.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=944 15:44 Flatzoid claiming that the stars don't change, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> That of course is another lie. The stars did change over the years. Their positions are recorded in nautical almanacs<ref>[https://www.thenauticalalmanac.com <q>Nautical Almanacs</q>]</ref>, which Flatzoid of course never opened.

Polaris for example moved.
<blockquote>
* 1850: 88° 30′ 35.28″ with an annual movement of 19.27″
* 1900: 88° 46′ 26.72′ with an annual movement of 18.762″
* 2017: 89° 20.3′ annual movement is listed elsewhere in the almanac.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://mctoon.net/polaris <q>Polaris motion</q> by MCToon]</ref>

The question which he will never attempt to answer is, how does he know what position the stars were a thousand or so years ago? At best we get an answer like <q> Look at the stars</q>.

=== Predictions ===
Flatzoid thinks that falsifying a prediction from the globe, which he hasn't managed to do yet, proves a flat earth. Of course when any flat earth prediction fails, he just ignores it. He probably knows that any prediction done using a flat earth will immediately be falsified.

[[File:Flatzoid_predictions.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_predictions.png}}]]

=== North Pole and South Pole ===
Flatzoid thinks the Poles are defined by an universal Up and Down for the globe.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know what's also funny? Guys has always claimed there's no up and down on the globe, but why do, why is there a thing called the North Pole and the South Pole?
</blockquote>

The poles are defined by the axis of rotation.
<blockquote>
The poles of astronomical bodies are determined based on their axis of rotation in relation to the celestial poles of the celestial sphere.[...]

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) defines the north pole of a planet or any of its satellites in the Solar System as the planetary pole that is in the same celestial hemisphere, relative to the invariable plane of the Solar System, as Earth's north pole.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_of_astronomical_bodies <q>Poles of astronomical bodies</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

North doesn't mean up and South doesn't mean down.

=== Glaciers are not on land ===
Flatzoid thinks that glaciers aren't on land.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Maybe, um maybe Mr Duffy doesn't do his homework, like he claims to do. Union Glacier is a glacier it's not Antarctica.

'''SSUM:''' right

'''Flatzoid:''' It's ice. You're on a glacier. You're on a big block of ice.

'''???:''' Like a plateau, a giant plateau.

'''Flatzoid:''' you have to go deeper to reach Antarctica. Actually they claim it's part of Antarctica but it's just the outer edges, the how can I put it, the Stup.

'''SSUM:''' The shoreline.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah the shoreline. The, the Ice, yeah, it's not actually the land.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/GEmFjWYn1Cs?t=3690 1:01:30 Flatzoid confusing icebergs and glaciers, <q>TFE shows more fakery?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Glaciers are ice masses on land.

<blockquote>
A glacier (US: /ˈɡleɪʃər/; UK: /ˈɡlæsiə/ or /ˈɡleɪsiə/) is a persistent body of dense ice, a form of rock, that is constantly moving downhill under its own weight. A glacier forms where the accumulation of snow exceeds its ablation over many years, often centuries. It acquires distinguishing features, such as crevasses and seracs, as it slowly flows and deforms under stresses induced by its weight. As it moves, it abrades rock and debris from its substrate to create landforms such as cirques, moraines, or fjords. Although a glacier may flow into a body of water, it forms only on land and is distinct from the much thinner sea ice and lake ice that form on the surface of bodies of water.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier <q>Glacier</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

Furthermore, Union Glacier is over 700 km away from the closest shoreline.

[[File:Union_glacier_location.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union_glacier_location.png}}]]

=== Not seeing Polaris ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The reason I can't see Polaris from my house is because I got a mountain around me.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=9097 2:31:37 Flatzoid talking about Polaris being blocked by mountains, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Even without mountains, Polaris is not visible in South Africa, but the celestial South Pole is.

=== Star rotation ===
Flatzoid had a discussion with Luca about the stars direction changing depending on the hemisphere.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TWRYniB1k40?t=7389 2:03:09 Flatzoid not understanding change in direction, <q>TFE The Final Experiment faked? Talk</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Trying to prove his point, Flatzoid brought up a video of a ceiling fan, which kept rotating clockwise, no matter which direction he looked at. It didn't change from clockwise to anticlockwise as we observe the stars do when moving to the other hemisphere.

=== Stopping the earth ===
Flatzoid thinks that earth is not moving, because in the bible it says that God stopped the sun. He presented a clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson explaining what would happen if the earth suddenly stopped moving, and thinks because no one was flung around in the bible story, that it is evidence of earth being stationary.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=326 5:26 Flatzoid claiming the earth stopped moving because of the bible, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Joshua 10:12-13 (KJV):''' Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua%2010&version=KJV <q>Joshua 10 KJV</q> by Biblegateway]</ref>

That story simply never happened. Even if we assume that earth is stationary other cultures at the time would have noticed the sun standing still and recorded it.

When Luca told them that story didn't happen, Barry Ross interjected by asking if Luca was there and saw if it didn't happen.

<blockquote>
'''Barry Ross:''' Were you there to see that it didn't stop? Is that what you're telling me? You were you there that it it didn't stop happening because you were there?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=787 13:07 Barry Ross, Were you There? <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== Twilight ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that the sky is illuminated before the ground during a sunrise.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know what I find interesting, guys? If you look in the distance there where the sunlight is, okay, doesn't the light seem very high to you? You know, we look at brightest part of it is like looks like it's above the cloud.

'''PJ:''' Yeah. Because it is

'''Flatzoid:''' And I've always seen this and um it's weird because they claim the sun is below the horizon. That means down.

'''Someone on Flatzoid's panel:''' Yeah.

'''Flatzoid:''' Why would it be lighter higher up? You know, almost like the sun is actually up but it's just far away.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/h_-Wfk9y1No?t=2293 38:13 Flatzoid not understanding twilight, <q>Flat Earth Sunrise?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<q>Explaining Science</q> has a nice explanation for that. in this case it's for a sunset, not a sunrise, but it's the same principle just in the opposite order.
<ref>[https://explainingscience.org/2016/10/09/twilight/ <q>Twilight</q> by Explaining Science]</ref>

[[File:Sunaftersunset.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sunaftersunset.png}}]]

<blockquote>
Twilight is caused by light from the Sun being scattered by the Earth’s atmosphere after the Sun has set (or before it has risen in the morning). If we look at the diagram above, it shows the Sun’s rays at sunset (shown as A) illuminating a point on the Earth’s surface marked with a small green “x”. After the Sun has set (B), the Sun’s rays cannot reach x directly because the Sun is below the horizon. However, they can still reach the upper atmosphere high above the Earth’s surface. When the Sun’s rays hit the very thin air in the upper atmosphere, most of them pass through. However a small percentage of the rays interact with air molecules. When this happens the air molecules scatter sunlight in all directions giving the sky a faint glow. The mechanism for this is described in more detail in a previous post Why is the Sky Blue? As the Sun moves further below the horizon its rays can only reach the very uppermost reaches of the atmosphere, shown as C in the diagram. Here the air is very very thin and so the percentage of the Sun’s light scattered by the atmosphere is very small, so the sky glow gets much much fainter. As the sky gets darker and darker twilight gradually fades into darkness.
</blockquote>

=== Seeing Himalaya from Dubai ===
Flatzoid showed a video which he thinks shows the Himalayas shown from Dubai.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' This is just an ordinary person saying look at the mountains from Dubai.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/bQKP4oqjo6E?t=2999 49:59 Flatzoid thinking the Himalayas were filmed from Dubai, <q>Why the globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If you read the video description, it states that the plane was in Nepal at the time, not Dubai.
<blockquote>
From the moment we entered Nepalese airspace, the view was absolutely magical — snow-capped peaks, endless mountain ranges, and clear blue skies. This video captures the best window seat view on one of Asia’s most scenic routes.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZWRNJwemE0&lc=UgzPLaP72JXlN10TRaB4AaABAg <q>Flydubai Flight to Kathmandu | Stunning Window View of the Himalayas from Dubai to Nepal 🏔️</q> by Poppy Gee Travels]</ref>

Flatzoid literally just read the title and concluded that the mountains were seen from Dubai.

== Moon ==
=== Moon's shape through observation ===
Faltzoid doesn't understand that you can determine the shape of the moon through observation.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' How did they establish first of all that the moon was physically a sphere? Maybe it looks spherical and it looks like there's a shadow on it but can you really claim that is, what it is or does it just seem to look that way?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=483 8:03 Flatzoid not understanding moon observations <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Yes Flatzoid, you can determine an objects shape by looking at it, unless you want to discard all your "Earth looks flat, therefore it must be flat" claims.

There is something called Lunar Libration, where you can see that the moon is indeed a sphere.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGAkvpOzc1k <q>Moon time lapse 4K - Lunar libration.</q> by AGAS360 Akasha Gange Astronomers Sirsi]</ref>

<blockquote>
In lunar astronomy, libration is the cyclic variation in the apparent position of the Moon that is perceived by observers on the Earth and caused by changes between the orbital and rotational planes of the moon. It causes an observer to see slightly different hemispheres of the surface at different times. It is similar in both cause and effect to the changes in the Moon's apparent size because of changes in distance. It is caused by three mechanisms detailed below, two of which cause a relatively tiny physical libration via tidal forces exerted by the Earth. Such true librations are known as well for other moons with locked rotation.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration <q>Libration</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

=== Moon orientation ===
Flatzoid accidentally debunked the flat earth. He showed that the moon in South Africa is rotated, like the globe predicts, but not any flat earth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=5153 1:25:53 Flatzoid showing the moons orientation depends on your location, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> On a flat earth with a close and local moon, it would be possible to see the moon from different sides, depending on your position. Yet in reality everyone sees the same side of the moon with only a slight change in angel.

[[File:Upside-down-moon.png|600px|link={{filepath:Upside-down-moon.png}}]]

=== Lunar eclipses ===
Flatzoid claims that predicting lunar eclipses isn't globe based just because people were able to predict them centuries ago.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=898 14:58 Flatzoid claiming that lunar eclipses are not based on the globe, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> As usual no flerf will ever present a working mechanism for how a lunar eclipse is possible on a flat earth. He is also completely ignoring that the people at the time at best predicted the date, but not the exact time and location. It's more drastic for solar eclipses, as unlike the lunar eclipses, solar eclipses are only visible for a small part of Earth.

Also, Flatzoid himself said that the [[Flatzoid#Predictions | flat earth doesn't make predictions]]. Therefore the predictions can't come from a flat earth.

Flatzoid doesn't realize that the exposure was different when the moon eclipsed. So the moon appeared brighter.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=5264 1:27:44 Flatzoid not noticing the different exposure setting, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Lunar-eclipse.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lunar-eclipse.png}}]]

It's funny that for Flatzoid a slight adjustment is deception when Danny Faulkner does it, but when Dave Weiss rotated the camera by a lot more it's just accepted as valid. Bob the Science Guy shows that in his video.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vf_inssV3k <q>Does the Eclipse Shadow Disprove the Globe???</q> by Bob the Science Guy]</ref>

Here is an illustration showing how the shadow on the moon should look like according to the globe. Of course no flerf will ever show how it's supposed to look like on a flat earth, or how a lunar eclipse is even possible.

[[File:Lunar-eclipse-2025.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lunar-eclipse-2025.png}}]]

=== Dark side of the moon ===
Flatzoid thinks the dark side of the moon means that it's always dark.

[[File:moon_dark_side_flatzoid.png|500px|link={{filepath:moon_dark_side_flatzoid.png}}]]

NASA has a nice animation illustrating how the different phases of the moon throughout the year.<ref>[https://moon.nasa.gov/resources/429/the-moons-orbit-and-rotation/ <q>The moon's orbit and rotation</q> by NASA]</ref> The frame from the animation shows the "dark" side of the moon being illuminated.

[[File:moon_dark_side.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:moon_dark_side.jpg}}]]

=== Lunar Phases ===
Flatzoid thinks the moon should be fully illuminated.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The point is Luca if you have a light source, let's say my hand is the sun light source and you have the moon, and it's reflecting the whole thing should be lit up.

'''Luca:''' Yeah at least half of the moon should be lit up.

'''Flatzoid:''' Right, and it's not fully lit up. So therefore the sun is not causing the light on the moon.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=227 3:47 Flatzoid not understanding lunar phases, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Only the side facing the sun is lit up as predicted by the heliocentric model.<ref>[https://philschatz.com/astronomy-book/contents/m59788.html <q>Phases and Motions of the Moon</q> by Philschatz]</ref>

[[File:lunar_phases.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:lunar_phases.jpg}}]]

Flatzoid is so dumb he even thinks that the shadow on the moon is from Earth.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Is the earth blocking the moon Wesley? Is the Earth blocking the moon?

'''Wesley:''' Nope never said it was.

'''Flatzoid:''' So how the hell is it getting a shadow then without the Earth blocking the moon?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=1516 25:16 Flatzoid not understanding lunar phases, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!”</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The shadow on the moon is from the moon itself, just like he showed himself using a ball and a light.<ref>[https://youtu.be/q98covGMWbI?t=710 11:50 Flatzoid showing lunar phase, <q>“Live Bible Q&A: End Times, Flat Earth, Prophecy & More!” </q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:flatzoid_half_moon.png|600px|link={{filepath:flatzoid_half_moon.png}}]]

== Aviation ==
=== Flatzoid doesn't understand down ===
Flatzoid reviews the discussion between Will Duffy and Wolfie6020. Wolfie explains the direction of down and what horizontal is on the globe.<ref>[https://youtu.be/fcFMB1YW-mM?t=5433 1:30:33 Flatzoid misunderstanding down and horizontal on the globe, <q>Wolfie attempts to help Duffy cope</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Flatzoid demonstrates once again that he doesn't understand up and down or aviation even when it has literally been explained to him a few seconds before. He thinks that all horizontals are parallel and that the pitch data has to change when flying around the globe.

[[File:Flatzoid_down.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_down.png}}]]

=== Gyroscopes and Artificial Horizon ===
At the same time in the video as for the previous claim, Flatzoid also claims that gyroscopes are set at the start airport and then just keep their orientation. At the end of the discussion between Will and Wolfie, Wolfie shows that the gyroscopes adjust to gravity.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Wdc0WZuwJz8?t=2777 46:17 Wolfie explaining artificial horizon, <q>Aviation Proves the Globe! A Chat with Wolfie6020 (a REAL pilot!)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref> Flatzoid didn't even get to that part of the video.

WheresWally made a video explaining Flatzoid's wrong understanding of the pitch data.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KApmjXH0Tq0 WheresWally explaining pitch data, <q>fKatZoid's Jerkle's 11 Fails Interstanding Pitch Data as Will and Wolfie Destroy FE Claims</q> by WheresWally]</ref>

Dave McKeegan also made a video explaining pitch data.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQceCzKX-E <q>Flat Earthers prove Flat Earth ... by not understanding airplanes</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

=== Basics of flying ===
For information about aeronautics in general, the FAA has a great handbook about the topic.<ref>[https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak <q>Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge</q> by FAA]</ref> Flatzoid of course never opened any book about aeronautics.

Flatzoid thinks that the mass of an aircraft doesn't matter once the plane is in the air. He really doesn't have a clue about aviation.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' If you know how a plane works Duffy. It's not going to worry about the weight of the plane because it's already in the air. It's just basically a dance of thrust, thrust and friction to keep it up in the air. That's all it is. The only time you worry about weight on a plane is takeoff. That's where you got to worry about it because you wouldn't be able to take off if it's too heavy. So Duffy doesn't have a clue how planes work, does he?

'''???:''' And a plane would has to create a lift effect to start with.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah, and the reason they don't take that into account is because it's got nothing to do with what they are training for they're training to fly yeah they pl they're training to fly over the earth which is a non-moving flat plane.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/0Zjal_r48YM?t=10267 Flatzoid not understanding flight, <q>Griffin TAKES DOWN Duffy in Heated Showdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRyLwu3zQHE <q>Aviation ignoramus explains flight.</q> by Eduardo Igirisu 6‬]</ref>

Flatzoid should actually learn what he is talking about. He really is top left personified. No clue about anything while thinking he knows everything.

The FAA has a very thorough explanation about the aerodynamics of flight.<ref>[https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/07_phak_ch5_0.pdf <q>Aerodynamics of Flight</q> by FAA]</ref>

<blockquote>
The four forces acting on an aircraft in straight-and-level, unaccelerated flight are thrust, drag, lift, and weight. They are defined as follows:
* Thrust — the forward force produced by the powerplant/propeller or rotor. It opposes or overcomes the force of drag. As a general rule, it acts parallel to the longitudinal axis. However, this is not always the case, as explained later.
* Drag — a rearward, retarding force caused by disruption of airflow by the wing, rotor, fuselage, and other protruding objects. As a general rule, drag opposes thrust and acts rearward parallel to the relative wind.
* Lift — is a force that is produced by the dynamic effect of the air acting on the airfoil, and acts perpendicular to the flight path through the center of lift (CL) and perpendicular to the lateral axis. In level flight, lift opposes the downward force of weight.
* Weight — the combined load of the aircraft itself, the crew, the fuel, and the cargo or baggage. Weight is a force that pulls the aircraft downward because of the force of gravity. It opposes lift and acts vertically downward through the aircraft’s center of gravity (CG).
</blockquote>

[[File:Airplane_forces.png|400px|link={{filepath:Airplane_forces.png}}]]

=== Level flight ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' We can prove based on the evidence they don't do any as in any change because they're flying level. Okay, that is evidence that there's no curve.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4725 1:18:45 Flatzoid not understanding level flight, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Level flight means that the plane keeps its altitude. On the globe that means it's going to follow a level line, which is curved. Staying at the same level is the same as following the curve. It won't show up in the pitch data, because the pitch is relative to the local vertical.

[[File:Dave_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Dave_level.png}}]]

== Cameras ==
=== Lens flares ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that the lens flares will be the same after 24 hours when using the same camera pointed at the sun at the same angle, which is the case when the camera is mounted on a rotating tripod.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkqf9rQzy8 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares, <q>WIll Duffy Lied about the 24 Hour sun video again!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Lensflares.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lensflares.png}}]]

He also doesn't understand that different lenses result in different flares.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2324 38:44 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares again, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The point I'm trying to make now is, look at the sun specifically. How it looks okay and we can compare it to actual footage from Antarctica, that's practically how it looks, but the ones we saw from their 24hour time lapses and stuff doesn't look like that.
</blockquote>

For comparison, here is a frame from the TFE trailer.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PFKCnrcT8 <q>The Final Experiment Documentary - Official Trailer</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_trailer.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_trailer.png}}]]

And one from Dave McKeegan's 24h timelapse.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M <q>Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_timelapse.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_timelapse.png}}]]

=== Apollo Films ===
Flatzoid thinks that the films used during Apollo can't be used in a vacuum.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=1659 27:39 Apollo Film in a vacuum, <q>https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=1659</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> He relies on the information given by the Apollo Detectives.<ref>[https://www.aulis.com/vacuum.htm <q>Apollo Film Subjected to a Vacuum - updated</q>]</ref>

Dave McKeegan made a video about the topic explaining the problems with the experiments.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLXHrQ1Keac <q>Debunking Gary Fong/Apollo Detectives - Cameras CAN work on the moon</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

In short, the problems are:
* Different film
* Different development method
* Exposing the film to harsher conditions than the actual Apollo film
* The film for the Apollo mission was in a magazine, theirs wasn't

[[File:Hasselblad_magazine.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Hasselblad_magazine.jpg}}]]<ref>[https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/film-magazine-hasselblad-70mm-apollo-11-lunar-surface/nasm_A19980009000 <q>Film Magazine, Hasselblad, 70mm, Apollo 11, Lunar Surface</q> by Smithsonian]</ref>

The mindset of moon landing deniers is so weird. They believe that NASA has the technology and ingenuity to be able to fake the moon landings, while at the same time can't even develop a camera capable of taking photos in space.

=== Underwater Cameras ===
Flatzoid thinks they don't use film cameras underwater.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=3651 1:00:51 No underwater film cameras, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

One of the first underwater cameras using film was the Nikonos from the 1960s.<ref>[https://imaging.nikon.com/imaging/information/chronicle/history-nikonos/ <q>Evolution of NIKONOS<q> by Nikon]</ref>

[[File:History7_nikonos_1.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:History7_nikonos_1.jpg}}]]

== Language ==
=== Community member ===
Flatzoid thinks he needs to apply to be a member of the flat earth community.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11259 3:07:39 Flatzoid not understanding community, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Is anybody a member of the flat earth?

'''Janusz:''' Nope

'''Roger Ledwell:''' Where do we join, where do we join, where do we sign up?

'''PJ:''' I didn't say anything not a thing, I didn't pledge anything, didn't say anything. Nothing, I don't pledge allegiance to the flat earth.
</blockquote>

=== Insinuate ===
In his live stream <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q><ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=15612 4:21:00 <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, a person called Frank told Flatzoid, how he was insinuating that Lisbeth is the village bicycle. Flatzoid's counter to that is that he didn't directly say the words: <q>Lisbeth is the village bicycle</q>. That demonstrates that he does not understand the word insinuate.

[[File:Insinuate.png|500px|link={{filepath:Insinuate.png}}]]

=== Airplane ===
According to Flatzoid airplanes are called that, because they are flying over a flat earth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/ijBUx-Ro48M?t=358 5:58 Flatzoid not understanding the word airplane <q>Bob The Science Guy's Pitch Data Excuse</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You fly over a plane, yeah. It's called a aeroplane for a reason.
</blockquote>

The word aeroplane actually comes from the shape of the wings.<ref>[https://www.etymonline.com/word/aeroplane Etymology of aeroplane by etymonline]</ref>

<blockquote>
aeroplane(n.)

1866, originally in reference to surfaces such as shell casings of beetle wings, from French aéroplane (1855), from Greek-derived aero- "air" + stem of French planer "to soar," from Latin planus "level, flat" (from PIE root *pele- (2) "flat; to spread").

The word was later extended to the wing of a heavier-than-air flying machine. The use of the word in reference to the machine itself is first attested 1873 and probably is an independent coinage in English. Also see airplane. Ancient Greek had a word aeroplanos, but it meant "wandering in the air," from planos "wandering" (see planet).
</blockquote>

=== Earth shape debate ===
Flatzoid thinks that a debate about Earth's shape means that it's a debate about biblical cosmology.<ref>[https://youtu.be/NnAjU6-Z2W4?t=2302 38:22 Flatzoid not understanding the topic of the debate, <q>The Shape of the Earth Showdown Debate review // Will Duffy vs KIC / Sean Griffin</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhMJhgtvVcY Flatzoid not understanding the topic of the debate, <q>severe topic creep ‪@CrealityPodcast‬ #crealitism #staunchlyStupid #gottaDerp2Flerf</q> by Jack of all Trades]</ref>

=== Synonymous ===

<blockquote>
'''Dave in the video:''' It seems flatearthers are conflating level and horizontal.

'''Flatzoid:''' It's literally synonymous with each other. Can anybody tell me what does synonymous mean? It's literally synonymous with each other. And he's trying to say, "Oh, they're trying to conate conflate it." Um, you can't have one with the other. They literally are what we say synonymous. It's like saying, "I have a body and I have a right hand and a left hand." I can't have a right and a left hand if I don't have a body. Get it?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=967 16:07 Flatzoid not understanding synonymous, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

It looks like Flatzoid is confusing synonymous with dependent. Synonymous means that two words have the same meaning in a given context. In his example the hands require a body, according to him.

=== Elevation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' By the way, elevation means horizontal and flat and level. Elevation literally is altitude above level.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=1666 27:46 Flatzoid not understanding elevation, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> b< Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Elevation is the altitude above sea level, it doesn't mean horizontal, flat or level.

== Surveying ==
=== Curvature corrections ===
According to Flatzoid, surveyors account for curvature just because they believe it exists. Essentially he is saying that everyone who measures Earth is getting it wrong on purpose. Of course no measurements of Earth being flat exist.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=769 12:49 Flatzoid not understanding surveying, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If Earth was flat, curvature corrections wouldn't be used as that results in a wrong measurement of the terrain.

=== Geodetic Surveying is Planar Surveying stitched together ===
Flatzoid also claims that Geodetic Surveying is just linking together the measurements from Planar Surveying.<ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=1395 23:15 Flatzoid claiming geodetic surveying is a series of planar surveying, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You don't observe uh geodetic surveying because it's planar surveying done in sections that they link up. Just like what it said. So they're taking all the sections of um of um local measurements, okay, up to let's say 10 miles or whatever and they're just linking them together. That's all they're doing and then they take all those links and just lie them across a sphere. That's what they do but was it measured over a sphere? No it was measured flat and then calculated that all those linkages are curving over a sphere, where they get most, of that is like the Topography is not exactly straight and that's what I brought the Arc of the parallel up, because it's exactly that. It's just linkages of, let's just say you got a link like this. Okay. Then we're going to put another measurement which is another link you see it pulls out the distance further. Now these are two separate measurements, which are all flat measurements. Now they're taking that measurement. I wish I had a ball with me and they wrap it around a ball and say it's curved, but in the meantime they measured flat measurements. They link them together. That's all they do.
</blockquote>

If that was the case, surveyors would simply measure over larger distances without applying any curvature corrections. That would result in different measurements simply by measuring from the opposite side, as Earth is a sphere.

For example: Assuming we have two points A and B at the same elevation. If you measure point B from point A, point B will be lower than point A. It's the other way around when point A is measured from point B. Of course Flatzoid completely ignores any problems.

NOVATR explains the difference between geodetic surveying and plane surveying.<ref>[https://www.novatr.com/blog/plane-vs-geodetic-surveying <q>Difference Between Plane vs Geodetic Surveying: What to Use?</q> by NOVATR]</ref>

=== Level in Surveying ===
Flatzoid made an entire livestream about Earth being measured flat, where the only thing he does is to present the definitions of level and perpendicular, without presenting even a single measurement.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3BHTRqmo3E <q>Earth is measured Flat!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Since presenting definitions of level is apparently is good enough, MCToon<ref>[https://mctoon.net/level/ <q>What does level mean?</q> by MCToon]</ref> and Jesse Kozlowski<ref>[https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2020/02/19/definition-of-level/ <q>Definition of Level In Surveying Texts</q> by Jesse Kozlowski]</ref> both have a collection of definitions of the word level as used in surveying.

For example this one from <q>The Theory and Practice of Surveying; Containing All the Instructions requisite for the skillful practice of this Art.</q>, published 1814.
<ref>[https://archive.org/details/theorypracticeof00gibs/page/n5/mode/2up <q>The Theory and Practice of Surveying; Containing All the Instructions requisite for the skillful practice of this Art.</q> by Robert Gibson on archive.org]</ref>

[[File:Level-figure-from-theory-practive-of-surveying.png|500px|link={{filepath:Level-figure-from-theory-practive-of-surveying.png}}]]

A better illustration.

[[File:Level-surface-2.png|500px|link={{filepath:Level-surface-2.png}}]]

==== Flatzoid going over Dave's video about level ====
Flatzoid went over Dave McKeegan's video about level, and demonstrated that he is conflating horizontal and level.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II5V39oohck <q>Flat Earthers butcher 'Level'</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean, a building with different levels. Um, are those horizontals on top of each other?

'''PJ:''' Yeah.

'''Flatzoid:''' So, they're literally level with each other at different heights.

'''PJ:''' Is the example crossing.

'''Flatzoid:''' uh a train train track crossing by saying, "Oh, it's because it's a level crossing because they're um crossing at the same height." So level, horizontal, because it wouldn't help if the one was higher than the other, would it? Then it's not level. I've got news for him anyway. Railway is level from one end to other.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=515 8:35 Flatzoid not understanding level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Railways are not level from one end to the other, they go over hills and such. Even if earth was flat, the tracks aren't level everywhere.

He is getting the definition of level line wrong while looking at the definition.

[[File:Flatzoid_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_level.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' That is literally an oxymoron. You cannot have a curved level line. A level line literally by definition is horizontal, right?
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=1821 30:21 Flatzoid not understanding level while looking at the definition of level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

As Flatzoid demonstrably will never understand, horizontal is the straight line, level is the curved line. They are only roughly the same over a short distance, so Flatzoid concludes they are the same over every distance, which is simply wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Because as soon as you're saying you are creating a horizontal line which is parallel to the surface of earth, there is no curve anywhere. And if you're claiming something is level, that means there can be no drop. That means the horizontal, he's literally claiming now the horizontal can curve.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=2191 36:31 Flatzoid confusing horizontal and level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Again, level is curving, horizontal is straight. They are not the same. Horizontal can be used for drop, while level is used for elevation.

Since Flatzoid likes to use Merriam Webster here is the definition of level for the context of earth's surface.

[[File:LEVEL_Definition_%26_Meaning_-_Merriam-Webster.png|700px|link={{filepath:LEVEL_Definition_%26_Meaning_-_Merriam-Webster.png}}]]

Flatzoid demonstrates once again that he is conflating level and horizontal. The line he drew is horizontal, not level.

[[File:Flatzoid_draw_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_draw_level.png}}]]
<ref>[https://youtu.be/PhC_fMabWeQ?t=3643 1:00:43 Flatzoid not understanding level, <q>Flat Earth Friday: Is the Globe Really True? | Biblical & Scientific Breakdown</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Below you can see what a level line is. As anyone but Flatzoid and Co can see, this line is perpendicular to every vertical along the path.

[[File:Dave_level.png|700px|link={{filepath:Dave_level.png}}]]

=== Earth measured curved ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Sean Hawkins says, "The Earth has been measured spherical for over 2,000 years." No, it hasn't. Has never been measured spherical once in existence. Has been calculated to make an radius value based on a flat Earth, but it's never been a measured sphere.

'''Michael Khan:''' Who measured it and how and what tools?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=4068 1:07:48 Earth not measured spherical, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Every geodetic surveyor measures earth to be spherical as seen above. Furthermore it also has been measured spherical by amateur measurements organized by Sly Sparkane
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V03eF0bcYno <q>Flat Earth: Debunked</q> by Sly Sparkane]</ref>
and SciManDan
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSSaMNktHbU <q>Community Science Just Destroyed the Flat Earth</q> by SciManDan]</ref>.

== Maps ==
Gisgeography has a nice overview of map projections.<ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-projection-types/ <q>Map Projection Types</q> by Gisgeography]</ref><ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-projections/ <q>Map Projections</q> by Gisgeography]</ref> They also have a good explanation about coordinates <ref>[https://gisgeography.com/latitude-longitude-coordinates/ <q>Latitude Longitude Coordinates</q> by Gisgeography]</ref>, and compare the different distortions.<ref>[https://gisgeography.com/map-distortion-tissots-indicatrix/ <q>Map Distortions</q> by Gisgeography]</ref>

=== Distances ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand that every map has different distortions and thinks that all maps have the correct distances.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' My model and my map is every map in existence because all the distances comport with measurements of reality. There we go. So it doesn't matter which map you present, the distance is shown to comport with what's measured in reality. It doesn't make it a sphere or a triangle. What it does do is it shows it's measured flat.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=3832 1:03:52 Flatzoid not understanding map distortions, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

If Earth was flat, only one world map can have all the correct distances. Since Earth isn't flat, the only model where all the distances are correct is the globe.

=== Grid ===
Flatzoid thinks that the grid on maps all have the same distance. That's of course not true. The distance between latitudes is the same, but not between the longitudes. The distance between the longitudes increases closer to the equator and decreases closer to the poles.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You see all these blocks. The coordinate systems. Okay. You see how they take those blocks and they lay them to each other on a map because it's a grid system. Those grid systems look how different they look. Okay. All those grids, but they all have the same distances allocated. Yeah. Why? Because the measurement is true, the distance is true, the layout is not. No. You just at the end of the day, you're just following a grid system that was measured over a flat horizontal plane.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/X1FIBoeyfbY?t=3902 1:05:02 Flatzoid not understanding the grid, <q>Surveying Secrets EXPOSED What They Don't Want You to Know</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Latitude_longitude.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Latitude_longitude.jpg}}]]
<blockquote>
This cutaway drawing shows that the latitude and longitude of any place are based on the sizes of two angles that originate at the center of Earth.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/latitude <q>Latitude and longitude</q> by Britannica]</ref>

== Space Travel ==
=== Zip Ties ===
Flatzoid doesn't like NASA using simple solutions like zip-ties in space.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' It's exactly just like those, um I don't know if you remember those cable ties they used on, um Voyager, I think it was Voyager one, uh on Mars that rover. The cable ties they used on there they were plastic. Billions of dollars to produce to uh invent and stuff and it's literally just cable ties.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2405 40:05 Flatzoid complaining about zip-ties, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

First, the rover in question is Curiosity or Perseverance, both use zip-ties. Second, the zip-ties are made of a sturdier plastic than the consumer grade ones.

<blockquote>
The zip ties intended for extraterrestrial use are made of Tefzel ETFE (ethylene-tetrafluoroethylene) resins designed for extreme temperatures, high UV levels, and 2,000 times more radiation than what you'd find in the standard plastic nylon version.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.sciencealert.com/no-this-photo-of-curiosity-isn-t-fake-here-s-why-nasa-uses-cable-ties-on-their-rovers <q>This Photo of Curiosity Is Real! Here's Why NASA Uses Zip Ties on Mars Rovers</q> by Sciencealert]</ref>

=== Airtight Zippers ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' "The zipper alone debunks this whole thing can anybody show me an airtight zipper, please."
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=2559 42:39 Flatzoid talking about airtight zippers, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Airtight zippers exist, you can easily buy those. [http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/001299.html Here is a discussion about the zippers used during the Apollo missions.] The pressure difference on space suits is at most 1 bar, so there is no issue finding a suitable material. For comparison, a tire for a mountain bike is rated for 1.8 to 3.7 bar. The tires of racing bicycles go even higher, from 6.5 to 8 bar.

[[File:Apollozippers08-lg.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Apollozippers08-lg.jpg}}]]

Also, if airtight zippers didn't exist, how can they use the space suits to train in the neutral buoyancy lab?

=== Dust on the moon ===
Flatzoid complains that the camera couldn't take good photos on the moon, because of the dust.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' A camera lens even if it's exposed to dust and things can you take good pictures.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=4153 1:09:13 Flatzoid talking about moon dust, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

There is no air on the moon, so all the dust remains on the ground unless disturbed by the astronauts. On the other hand, if dust was such a problem, it would be a far greater problem if they faked in on Earth, where there actually is air to move the dust around.

He also complains about the dust penetrating the spacesuits.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah but that's the thing, the they moaned about the dust is so fine it actually gets through the fabric on their spacuits. [...] oh wow yeah yeah yeah now this air doesn't Yeah these these suits are supposed to be airtight but dust can get through.
</blockquote>

The dust is very sharp so it stuck on the spacesuits and also damaged them. The main problem was when the astronauts returned to the lander and the dust on their suits started floating in the lander.

=== Cooling on Spacecraft ===
Flatzoid and crew think that the ISS can't be temperature regulated because it's in a vacuum.<ref>[https://youtu.be/sHPtIECoODo?t=7668 2:07:48 Flatzoid and crew talking about radiators, <q>Oh No!! You Got To Be Kidding Me?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

For a full explanation you can read [https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/473486main_iss_atcs_overview.pdf Active Thermal Control System (ATCS) Overview] by Boeing.

=== Rotating helmet ===

Flatzoid was watching a clip from the Gemini missions where an astronaut turned their head.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You can't turn his head in that space suit. It's literally mechanically impossible.

'''Luca:''' What? Yes, you can.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, those space suits are made not to move that way.

'''Luca:''' How would you see?

'''Flatzoid:''' Your head moves, not the whole helmet.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/RzsulcyYYHI?t=4151 1:09:11 Flatzoid not understanding space suits, <q>Apollo Fakery EXPOSED | Was the Moon Landing Staged?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The documentation of the spacesuit clearly states that the helmet can rotate.<ref>[https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19660007653/downloads/19660007653.pdf <q>SPACE SUIT DEVELOPMENT STATUS</q> by NASA]</ref>

<blockquote>
The helmet-to-torso engagement was designed to permit the astronaut to connect the helmet to the torso without assistance in less than 5 seconds. The torso portion also contains a rotating bearing, permitting the astronaut to turn his head with relative ease.
</blockquote>

I don't even know how that's supposed to be an argument anyway. They would have used a rotating helmet whether the footage is real or fake.

=== Documenting the night sky on the moon ===

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why didn't they document the night sky while they were on the moon?
</blockquote>

They were on the moon during daytime. On the moon it's about 2 weeks day and 2 weeks night.

=== Pressure door ===
Flatzoid confuses the heat cover with the pressure door.

[[File:door_cover.png|500px|link={{filepath:door_cover.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Look at that's airtight. That's airtight dooring.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/RzsulcyYYHI?t=5112 1:25:12 Flatzoid confuses the cover with the pressure door, <q>Apollo Fakery EXPOSED | Was the Moon Landing Staged?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The actual door is seen directly before in the video, at the bottom of the frame.

[[File:actual_door.png|500px|link={{filepath:actual_door.png}}]]<ref>[https://youtu.be/m11IjUODi-c?t=110 1:50 Pressure door opened, <q>First Astronaut to Fly a Jet Pack in Space (When We Left Earth)</q> by Mike Killian]</ref>

=== ISS Harness ===
Flatzoid showed a clip of astronauts on the ISS claiming a guy in the background is wearing a harness.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=6323 1:45:23 Flatzoid and the harness, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

In the original video, you can see that it's clearly not a harness. It's better visible in the video than the frame.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/nael3k1LWSc?t=964 16:04 Harness on the ISS?, <q>NASA Space Station Crew Discusses Life in Space with Idaho Students and Educators</q> by NASA]</ref>

[[File:Harness.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Harness.jpg}}]]

It's amazing how much time flerfs spend looking through hours of ISS footage with plenty of things just floating around, like the blue cap, just to find a few seconds, where they claim people are wearing a harness.

Flatzoid even googled it, and of course Google told him that he is wrong.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=8942 2:29:02 Flatzoid googling if astronauts wear tethers inside the ISS, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
ChatGPT told him the same thing, and for some reason he thinks that debunks the ISS.

He then brings up the popular clip of an astronaut grabbing the pocket of his colleague.<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=9405 2:36:45 ISS pocket grab, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Iss_pocket_grab.png|500px|link={{filepath:Iss_pocket_grab.png}}]]

Just like before when watching the full video in a higher resolution, you can see that Flatzoid is full of shit again.
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV-X0NcG8Lc <q>STS-135 Flight Day 7 Interviews, Part 2</q> by NASA Johnson]</ref>

Even more damming, the video also shows the other astronauts floating in positions that don't work with harnesses. Not to mention the floating rings around the female astronaut's neck, and her floating hair. As usual, Flatzoid never watched the full video.

[[File:Iss_impossible_harness.png|500px|link={{filepath:Iss_impossible_harness.png}}]]

== Science ==
=== Independent Variable ===
Flatzoid thinks you can only have one independent variable in science.<ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt">[https://youtu.be/6DDD2Qoi_No?t=3239 53:59 Flatzoid talking about independent variables, <q>Gravity is made up? Prove Us Wrong?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> You can easily have multiple independent variables as some things are affected by more than one thing. For example the force during a collision depends on mass and acceleration. If you crash a car into a wall the resulting force depends on the acceleration and mass of the car. Increasing the mass or acceleration, or both, will increase the force. If one of them is 0 the force will also be 0.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Independent variable for bending space time is the distribution of mass and energy. So those are two two independent variables, it's independent, so it's not one single independent variable. So it's not science.

'''Luca:''' Things can have two independent variables.

'''Flatzoid:''' No, an independent variable is one. It's an independent.
</blockquote><ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt"/>

He asked ChatGPT about it, which told him that he is wrong.

<blockquote>
'''Question:''' What is an independent variable?

'''ChatGPT:''' An independent variable is a variable in an experiment or mathematical relationship that you change or control to see how it affects another variable known as the dependent variable.

'''Question:''' Can you have more than one independent variable for one cause?

'''ChatGPT:''' Yes, you can have more than one independent variable for a single cause in many scientific experiments and mathematical models. This is common in complex systems where multiple factors influence the same outcome.

'''Question:''' Can you have two independent variables for one experiment?

'''ChatGPT:''' Yes, you can have two or more independent variables in a single experiment. This is known as a "multifactorial" or "factorial" experiment.

'''Question:''' Would that be for causation or correlative aspects?

'''ChatGPT:''' Excellent question! Including multiple independent variables in a single experiment can be used for both causation and correlation, depending on the design and intent of the study.

'''Question:''' Do you only have one independent variable in a hypothesis?

'''ChatGPT:''' Not necessarily. While it's common to have a single independent variable in a simple hypothesis, it is not a strict rule. Many scientific studies and experiments involve multiple independent variables, especially in complex systems where different factors interact.
</blockquote><ref name="flatzoidVsChatgpt"/>

To answer Flatzoid's question about how you can determine which independent variable (sunlight or water) caused the plant growth, is by simply comparing the results. You make different experiments, one with only sunlight, one with only water, and one with both. The one with both will grow the best. So the conclusion is that both water and sunlight affect plant growth.

Typical Flatzoid. He is so convinced that he must be correct that he just declares everyone else to be wrong.

=== Science is only concerned with how something happens ===
According to Flatzoid, science only cares about how something happens and not why.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' How is scientific because the how is what you're trying to work out. When it comes to science, you don't ask why it comes down to.

I observe a natural phenomenon. How did that work? How did that happen? So when you say why did that happen, that's just a philosoph philos philosophical philosophical question. So that's why you don't say why you say how.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=532 8:52 Flatzoid claiming asking why something happens is not scientific, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is, like virtually everything Flatzoid says, not true. Science is concerned with both how and why. The how are laws, and the why are theories.

Either way, flat earth doesn't even concern itself with how. It just declares that everything works on flat earth, without even an attempt of a model explaining the how.

== Fallacies ==
=== Begging the question ===
Flatzoid doesn't understand what it means to beg the question. In a live stream he saying that planets orbiting is begging the question.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Ty0n_nWbdhM?t=1930 32:10 Flatzoid thinking that planet orbiting is begging the question, <q>What If Everything You Knew About Gravity Was WRONG</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> It was observed long before Newton, that planets orbit the sun. It's not begging the question when he concluded that the forces are reciprocally as the squares of their distances from the center of their orbits.

As usual not even a hint of an explanation for flat earth.

An example of begging the question is Flatzoid calling TFE fake by asserting that it has to be, since like everything else, it doesn't work on a flat earth.

== Navigation ==
=== Circle of equal altitude ===
FTFE asked Flatzoid to show one citation that states that a circle of equal altitude is flat and level. The citation provided by Flatzoid appears at first glance to support that statement.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAn9LOu5oKY <q>So FTFE will you keep your word?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Altitude-intercept-method-flat.png|400px|link={{filepath:Altitude-intercept-method-flat.png}}]]

FTFE demonstrated that the same document presents that the previous diagram is just a simplification. Directly after it the circle of equal altitude is depicted on the curved surface of the globe.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAn9LOu5oKY 7:24, <q>Flatzoid/Failzoid - A Failure</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref> <ref>[https://documen.site/download/altitude-intercept-method_pdf# <q>Altitude-Intercept Method</q>]</ref>

[[File:Altitude-intercept-method-curve.png|400px|link={{filepath:Altitude-intercept-method-curve.png}}]]

Furthermore he demonstrates that he is incapable of measuring an angle on a curved surface.

[[File:Flatzoid_angle.png|400px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_angle.png}}]]

Even though it's very simply to do. It's even shown in the source he chose himself. Using a tangent is the way to measure an angle to a curve. Using a tangent doesn't mean that you don't measure the angle to a curve.

[[File:Elevation_angles.png|400px|link={{filepath:Elevation_angles.png}}]]

He reused the same diagram again.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=6203 1:43:23 Flatzoid lying about elevation angles again, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Sight_reduction.png|500px|link={{filepath:Sight_reduction.png}}]]

Of course his own source shows him to be wrong just one slide after.<ref>[https://www.slideserve.com/tamal/6-the-assumed-position-circle-of-equal-altitude-intercept <q>The art of celestial navigation chapter 6</q> by Slide Serve]</ref>

=== Nautical miles ===
According to Flatzoid nautical miles are defined as distance over the ocean and come from right angle triangles.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Nautical miles is defined as distance over the ocean.

'''Flatzoid:''' I'm saying do you know the math derived for your nautical miles on screen, literally comes from right angle triangles?
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=5995 1:39:55 Flatzoid not understanding nautical miles, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That is of course not true.

<blockquote>
'''NOAA:''' Nautical miles are used to measure the distance traveled through the water. A nautical mile is slightly longer than a mile on land, equaling 1.1508 land-measured (or statute) miles. The nautical mile is based on the Earth’s longitude and latitude coordinates, with one nautical mile equaling one minute of latitude.
</blockquote><ref>[https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/nautical-mile-knot.html <q>What is the difference between a nautical mile and a knot?</q> by NOAA]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Royal Museums Greenwich:''' The ‘standard’ nautical mile is taken as 6080 feet (1.151 statute miles or 1853 metres) and is the unit of length used in sea and air navigation.

A mile on land is equal to 5280 feet (1609.3 metres), while a sea or nautical mile is one-sixtieth of a degree of latitude, and varies from 6046 feet on the Equator, to 6092 feet at a latitude of 60°. This difference is due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere, but slightly flattened at the poles – an oblate spheroid. To avoid confusion, the standard nautical mile is accepted as 6080 feet.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/maritime-history/nautical-mile <q>What is a Nautical Mile</q> by Royal Museums Greenwich]</ref>

===Radar Horizon===
While reviewing Roger Ledwell's stream, specifically the part where FTFE presents what a radar horizon is, Flatzoid thinks that planes going beneath the radar debunks the globe.

<blockquote>
'''FTFE (in the video Flatzoid is watching):''' Um, figure one shows what a radar horizon is and how it would apply to aircraft. So, if there's aircraft close to the ground, they can literally go underneath the radar, which is a, you know, attack...

'''Flatzoid (interrupting):''' That debunks the globe, by the way.

'''SSUM:''' Yeah, of course it does.

'''Flatzoid:''' How do they go underneath the radar if the Earth curve stops the radar?

'''PJ:''' Yeah, they had to hit the Earth, wouldn't they? They run right into that wall.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/_lBT35vcIDk?t=6193 1:43:13 Flatzoid not understanding radar horizon, <q>Analyzing Roger Ledwell’s Debate Evening | Truth vs Error?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Planes go underneath the radar precisely because the earth curve stops the radar. Just like in the diagram that was on screen at that time.

[[File:Radar_horizon.png|600px|link={{filepath:Radar_horizon.png}}]]
<ref>[https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/ew-radar-handbook/radar-horizon-line-of-sight.htm <q>Electronic Warfare and Radar Systems Engineering Handbook Radar Horizon / Line of Sight</q> by rfcafe]</ref>

Arctic Reflections made a video about the radar.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp7cXE9uTWc <q>My comments on FTFE's discussion with Flatzoid about radar!</q> by Arctic Reflections]</ref>

=== Sextant ===
==== Chronometer ====
Flatzoid doesn't know what a chronometer is.<ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=1238 20:38 Flatzoid not understanding chronometers, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> He points at the part of the sextant that is used to adjust the angle more precisely. He thinks that the micrometer drum on a sextant is a chronometer.

[[File:Sextant_parts.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Sextant_parts.jpg}}]]

<blockquote>
'''The micrometer drum:''' While whole degrees are read directly from the arc, minutes of arc are read from the micrometer drum. Turning the micrometer drum screws the worm along the rack and permits fine adjustment of an observed angle or altitude.
</blockquote><ref>[https://maritimesa.org/nautical-science-grade-11/2020/10/20/parts-of-the-sextant/ <q>Parts of the sextant</q> by Maritime Studies South Africa]</ref>

He did notice it after continuing to read the article, and of course blamed Brenda for using the word chronometer instead of watch.

==== Double Reflection Principle ====
Flatzoid discussed sextants with Brenda, and thinks that the double reflection principle requires a flat earth.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The double reflection principle requires the earth to be flat.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/9ac8-BqsGhI?t=1887 31:27 Flatzoid not understanding double reflection principle, <q>"Why Celestial Navigation Only Makes Sense on a Flat Earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Wikipedia ==
=== History of the state of Palestine ===

Flatzoid was presented with a link to Wikipedia and the title of an article he should read. Instead he ended up on the landing page and looked at the featured article, complaining that it isn't about Palestine.

[[File:Wikipedia.png|500px|link={{filepath:Wikipedia.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaDuTIIPtk <q>That’s not Palestine! 🤦‍♂️ #palestine #state #country #isreal #idf #jews</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Fake Bible Verses ==
Flatzoid likes the fake bible verses in his comment section. It started on 25th April 2025, he never realized it, but the accounts are likely blocked.

[[File:Fake_verse_01.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_01.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_02.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_02.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_03.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_03.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_04.png|600px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_04.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_05.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_05.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_06.png|600px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_06.png}}]]

[[File:Fake_verse_07.png|500px|link={{filepath:Fake_verse_07.png}}]]

== Captchas ==
When Flatzoid tried to change the site he failed against the captchas.<ref name="vandalzoid"/>

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha1.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha2.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_captcha3.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_captcha3.png}}]]

== Geology ==

=== Mountain Formation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's not one observed mountain ever created by moving tectonic plates ever in history.Do you know why?

'''Barry Ross:''' Same reason the sun and moon didn't stop moving because Lucas says so.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. Remember that's a book. Men wrote that book that made you believe tectonic plates caused the mountain to be created billions of years ago. Luca.

'''Luca:''' Well, the people that were there uh you know should be versed in that.

'''Flatzoid:''' But they wrote it's men that wrote that book. Correct?

'''Barry Ross:''' They're they they should be versed in the bullshit that they've recorded and regurgitated from the same books that they learned 20 years before that from the same ideas that everybody's just been putting down on a book and listening to and memorizing and regurgitating just like Luka is doing right now and calling it real.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1421 23:41 Flatzoid not understanding tectonic plates, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

One example of mountains created by plate tectonics is the Himalaya, which are still growing by about 1cm per year.<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/How-Are-Mountains-Formed <q>How Are Mountains Formed?</q> by Britannica]</ref>
<ref>[https://medium.com/@denariusdenr/moving-mountains-how-the-himalayas-grow-1cm-taller-every-year-e636bfee76dc <q>Moving Mountains: How the Himalayas Grow 1cm Taller Every Year</q> by Denarius]</ref>

===Earthquakes===
Flatzoid thinks that earthquakes are not caused by tectonic plates.

<blockquote>
'''Faltzoid:''' That is what earthquake is. It's movement of the land. Now that's not tectonic plates.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/jcTyIOfHRLA?t=1853 30:53 Flatzoid not understanding earthquakes, <q>What REALLY is the Best Evidence for Flat Earth or Globe?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Earthquakes are caused by geological faults most of the time. Basically the tectonic plates moving causes enough force to shake the ground.

<blockquote>
'''Britannica:''' Earth’s major earthquakes occur mainly in belts coinciding with the margins of tectonic plates. This has long been apparent from early catalogs of felt earthquakes and is even more readily discernible in modern seismicity maps, which show instrumentally determined epicentres.

[...]

Earthquakes are caused by the sudden release of energy within some limited region of the rocks of the Earth. The energy can be released by elastic strain, gravity, chemical reactions, or even the motion of massive bodies. Of all these the release of elastic strain is the most important cause, because this form of energy is the only kind that can be stored in sufficient quantity in the Earth to produce major disturbances. Earthquakes associated with this type of energy release are called tectonic earthquakes.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/earthquake-geology <q>earthquake</q> by Britannica]</ref>

== Construction ==
=== Pyramids ===
Flatzoid and his panel think we can't build the pyramids nowadays.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/DFEyCTnKV-0 0:00 Flatzoid and the pyramids <q>What REALLY Happens When You Investigate Flat Earth Evidence?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
Just because we don't know how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids, does not mean we can't build pyramids. We would use modern methods like cranes and trucks, instead of the ancient methods that the Egyptians used.



= Masons and occult =
== Colors ==
=== Orange ===
According to Flatzoid wearing an orange shirt is a sign of being a mason.<ref>[https://youtu.be/JUh9YEia40I?t=614 10:14 Danny Faulkner wearing an orange shirt, <q>Lunar Eclipse and Danny Faulkner at it again</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But that's the thing he gets called out for his Masonic shirts he keeps wearing and he keeps wearing specifically his orange shirts. What does that tell you guys?
</blockquote>

Orange curtains are a Freemason ritual as well.<ref name=mason>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=2530 42:10 Flatzoid masonic rituals, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Those orange curtains are in the hotel in Punta Arenas, where they stayed. Does that mean the hotel is masonic?

[[File:Flatzoid_orange.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_orange.png}}]]

=== Blue and Red ===
Wearing blue or red is also masonic. <ref>[https://youtu.be/vPD-hUwrRtY?t=678 11:18 Witsit wearing a blue shirt, <q>To Question means you are not a truther!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' On Jeran's stream, which he (Austin Witsit) literally had the same time as him, he was on Jeran's stream, he was wearing a red hoodie and then straight after went to start his streaming wearing a blue hoodie and that is again guys, sorry to say, linked to Freemasonry.
</blockquote>

[[File:Flatzoid_red_shirt.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_red_shirt.png}}]]
[[File:Flatzoid_blue_shirt.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_blue_shirt.png}}]]

== Putting your right hand on the bible ==
According to Flatzoid putting your right hand on the bible is a masonic ritual.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vPD-hUwrRtY?t=1314 21:54 Witsit putting his right hand on the bible, <q>To Question means you are not a truther!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' But you see the problem with what Witsit did now? Put, placing the right hand on the Bible is a um Authority Passage through Mas, Masonic, uh masonry. It's literally a masonic um ritual that you do to to show you have authority.
</blockquote>

== Nipples on ice ==
Taking a group photo with some people being topless is also masonic, according to Flatzoid or his viewers.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=452s 30:31 Dave McKeegan explaining the topless group photo, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

[[File:Mason_checker.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_checker.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The problem with that is it's based on a Mason ritual. Especially the the check, cuz it's shirt off, shirt on, shirt off, shirt on, and that's why everybody is saying, yeah it's based on on Freemason symbolism.
</blockquote>

== Left boot ==
According to Flatzoid putting a left boot under a table is masonic.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_boot.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_boot.png}}]]

When you actually read the text, which Flatzoid obviously didn't. You can see that the ritual involves taking off your shoe when entering a building. Dave McKeegan was outside and didn't even wear that boot.

<blockquote>
The custom of removing shoes on entering a sacred building dates to extreme antiquity, it is a token of reverence and humility.

It is known as the “Rite of Discalceation” and in the language of symbolism, signifies that the place that is approached in reverence and humility is consecrated to some holy purpose.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.thesquaremagazine.com/mag/article/202302masonic-miscellanies-bare-feet-and-freemasonry/ Bare Feet and Fremasonery, by the square magazine]</ref>

== Numbers ==
=== 33 ===
Becoming a millionaire at age 33 is also a masonic ritual.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_age.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_age.png}}]]

== Hiding one eye ==
Hiding one eye is a masonic ritual.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_eye.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_eye.png}}]]

Of course when it happens to Flatzoid it's suddenly just a coincidence and wasn't on purpose.

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_1.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_1.jpg}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_2.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_2.jpg}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid_eye_3.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid_eye_3.png}}]]

== Hand sign ==
There are also plenty of hand sign counting as Freemason signs.<ref name=mason/>

[[File:Mason_hand.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_hand.png}}]]

== Lunar eclipse diagram ==
According to Flatzoid a diagram of the lunar eclipse is kind of occultic.

[[File:Geometry-lunar-eclipse-Moon-shadow-orbit-Earth.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Geometry-lunar-eclipse-Moon-shadow-orbit-Earth.jpg}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out to you look at the shapes coming off here I'm going to get another one online because this symbol is kind of occultic.

...

'''Flatzoid:''' This whole um occultic sign sort of goes and, um it's how can I say, makes a Baphomet sign. Almost a triple six based on this, but you have to remember the whole heliocentric belief system is based on a Babylonian pagan belief and it's satanic so it does reference triple 6.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/ZEqX5JHMKkc?t=869 14:29 The lunar eclipse diagram is occultic, <q>Wake UP! The Globe belief is a lie!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Carousel ==
Flatzoid used an analysis of Ray Bradbury's "Something Wicked The Way Comes"<ref>[https://youtu.be/2OsscT0zyLk?t=602 10:02 Flatzoid and the wicked carousel, <q>Is TFE (The Final Experiment) Demonic? Unmasking Spiritual Implications</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref><ref>[https://www.litcharts.com/lit/something-wicked-this-way-comes/symbols/the-carousel <q>The Carousel</q> by Litcharts]</ref> as evidence that the carousel used in Will Duffy's first video<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSbYR9wzL-o <q>The Final Experiment - A History (1 of 6)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>, means wicked or temptation. Flatzoid doesn't even understand that "Something Wicked This Way Comes" is the title of the novel. The symbol that Will wanted to present is nostalgia and history.

Flatzoid even reads the symbolism of the forest in "Lord of the Rings". He only reads the last sentence. There isn't even a carousel in the entire book.
<blockquote>
I think Cirlot succeeds in capturing the gist of forest symbolism but I would dare to expand a little on his definition by looking at the forest imagery in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings (the book). In the first part, the heroic quest begins in the Old Forest, which borders the Shire symbolizing the threshold on the verge of the unknown. Marching through it, the hobbits go deeper and deeper and always keep turning left, which symbolically implies introversion and probing the unconscious. The trees are perilous, alive and can be malicious. At one point Merry and Pippin get trapped in the trunk of Old Man Willow, who had cast a spell on them making them sleepy. In this part of the hero’s journey the forest symbolizes the threatening aspect of the personal unconscious, its deathly pull towards inertia stemming from the lack of consciousness and self-knowledge.
</blockquote><ref>[https://symbolreader.net/2013/04/14/the-symbolism-of-the-forest/ <q>Symbolism of the forest</q> by Symbolreader]</ref>

He clearly has no concept of context.

== Churchlogo ==
Flatzoid accuses Will Duffy of using a logo that looks like Baphomet.<ref>[https://youtu.be/2OsscT0zyLk?t=1930 32:10 Flatzoid Baphomet, <q>Is TFE (The Final Experiment) Demonic? Unmasking Spiritual Implications</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Church_logo_baphomet_split.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_baphomet_split.png}}]]

[[File:Church_logo_baphomet.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_baphomet.png}}]]

As anyone but Flatzoid can see, it doesn't match. It's just Flatzoid's pareidolia. The church tower looks like a triangle, Baphomet's head looks like a triangle, therefore it must be the same.

He does the same using the mason compass and square logo. Completely oblivious that the tools are the important part of the Mason logo. Which shape they use doesn't matter.

[[File:Church_logo_mason.png|500px|link={{filepath:Church_logo_mason.png}}]]

His argument is so stupid, it can be applied to his own logo.

[[File:Creality_baphomed.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Creality_baphomed.webp}}]]
[[File:Creality_mason.webp|400px|link={{filepath:Creality_mason.webp}}]]

== Flatzoid hypocrisy ==
When Flat Earth Banjo (Eddie) made a video claiming that Flatzoid is a Mason etc, Flatzoid complains about it, while he does the same thing to Will Duffy and the TFE participants. His accusations are actually worse, as you can see in the next section.

=== Misrepresentation ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I don't I don't have an issue with calling out stuff like this. The issue I have is he's misrepresenting the thing. He's going out his way to make something that it isn't. And he's presenting it to his audience as if it is. So, he hasn't approached me once. I haven't badmouthed Eddie once.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/V1Qd051LO7E?t=2370 39:30 Flatzoid complaining about being associated with Illuminati/Masons, <q>Flat Earth Banjo Calls Me Illuminati — Let’s Set the Record Straight</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

=== False Narrative ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' He doesn't think that the thing he's pushing on me, other people are going to believe him because he's influencing them. So, they're not going to look at both sides of the argument. They're just going to automatically trust Banjo with the false narrative.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/V1Qd051LO7E?t=2514 41:54 Flatzoid complaining about Eddie pushing a false narrative, <q>Flat Earth Banjo Calls Me Illuminati — Let’s Set the Record Straight</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Which is exactly the same thing that Flatzoid did to TFE and its participants.

= Accusations =

== Will Duffy ==
In multiple videos Flatzoid claims that [[Will Duffy's sermon on deception|Will Duffy said that deception is good]].<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=1639 27:19 Flatzoid claiming that Will said deception is good, <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> That's not true. Will said that according to the bible, lying is not inherently evil.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zS5qb8zng <q>Is It Always Wrong To Tell A Lie?</q> by Agape Kingdom Fellowship]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px12ldp9MOo <q>Is It A Sin To Lie If It Means You’re Saving A Life?</q> by Agape Kingdom Fellowship]</ref>

== Brenda ==
Flatzoid brought up a video claiming it shows Brenda, even though it's someone else, to defame not just her, but the entire globe community.<ref>[https://youtu.be/VRF1L8Q1lzA?t=4497 1:14:57 <q>Why does Flat Earth bother YOU so much?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Lisbeth ==
Flatzoid calls [[Lisbeth Acosta]] a "village bicycle".
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlfQuZDfVY <q>Fkatzoid, David Cain, PJ are Evil</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah. So we all know why um Lisbeth went with on the group.

'''PJ?:''' Uh-huh.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah.

'''Roger:''' We get it.

'''Micheal Khan:''' Skiing.

'''Roger:''' Yeah that's what it was.

'''Flatzoid:''' Have you ever heard of the, have you ever heard of the, um, of the saying before Village Bicycle?

'''PJ:''' Yeah. Town bike.

'''Micheal Khan:''' Local pusher.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/6SgUnDVQOOw?t=4347 1:12:27 Flatzoid calling Lisbeth A village bicycle, <q>Big Bang Idiocy!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The context was super weird. They were watching a clip from The Line talking about the Big Bang, complaining about it of course, without any mention of TFE or the participants, then they suddenly start saying that crap.

Flatzoid made further accusations about Lisbeth and the TFE crew in general,<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUEbxW7FjK4 <q>Fkatzoid's Sick Fantasies about Lisbeth</q> by MCToon Live]</ref> which [[Roger Ledwell]] still repeats to this day.<ref>https://youtu.be/aQObWB0YdAU</ref>

Flatzoid claimed that [[Jeran Campenalla]] had half naked photos of [[Lisbeth Acosta]] broadcast during a livestream: <q>We literally have seen a picture of Lisbeth half naked for Jeran.</q>

The photo seen in Jeran's live stream, was of his wife.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ec97tjelk 1:11:18 Jeran's wife on livestream censored <q>jeranism Friday UNPLUGGED Ep. 4 | Responding to Those Who Say the Antarctica Trip Was Fake | 1/31/25</q> by jeranism]</ref> Jeran censored the photo now. Flatzoid dishonest as always just asserted that it was Lisbeth.

Other defamatory quotes from Flatzoid:
* "That whole group is a perverted nonsense idiotic people and frankly they need to get a life."
* "We all know why um Lisbeth went with on the group. Have you ever heard of the um of the saying before village bicycle?"
** https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Village%20Bicycle

He doubles down on his accusation.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uNCAg7rfBDU?t=510 8:30 Flatzoid doubling down on his accusation about Lisbeth, <q>So Cultered talks about flat earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' You know McToon brought out a video guys, earlier and uh we called uh you know Village Bicycle. Um Sprouts of Doom don't come in here saying silly horrible things like I do, I just hear it from the channel, you got it. Anyway you see the difference between uh Lisbeth and my wife, Lisbeth sends nude pictures to uh Jeran, my wife doesn't do that to anybody. So get your facts straight mate. Oh that actually, we literally have, we literally have seen a picture of Lisbeth half naked for Jeran.
</blockquote>

=== Pretending to apologize ===
==== Wrong picture ====
He later apologized about showing another picture than the one he saw on Jeran's stream.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-0W5xaNQ8I&t=16802s 2:39:57 Flatzoid presenting a photo that wasn't one Jeran's live stream, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> No attempt of apologizing about his wrongful accusations.

[[File:Flatzoid-pathetic-apoology.png|500px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid-pathetic-apoology.png}}]]

==== Misrepresentation ====
Another pathetic attempt of an apology is his video <q>Flatzoid No More</q><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uO1g0y7hEg Flatzoid blaming the globe side for misrepresenting him, <q>Flatzoid No More</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, where once again he doesn't retract his accusations, but instead blames the globe side for misrepresenting him.

==== Calling the rest of TFE participants masonic perverts ====
He also tried to backtrack about his accusations about Lisbeth by calling everyone else involved in TFE the perverts.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=10265 2:51:05 Flatzoid accusing the other TFE participants, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> As if changing the target makes his accusations any better.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Lisbeth can come talk to me anytime, I'll show much respect to her because I don't mean any disrespect to her. I'm just simply pointing out the other perverted idiots.
</blockquote>

He doubles down on it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=1294 21:34 Flatzoid claiming that the TFE guys needed Lisbeth for a ritual again, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Let me put it this way. I didn't say anything about her. They misrepresented what I said. I was uh referencing the guys, the reason they wanted her to go, based on Freemason ritual. That was the context. I didn't call her a prostitute, didn't say she was a village bicycle, literally just saying what they needed her for. That's it.
</blockquote>

He goes even further. <ref>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=1844 29:41 Flatzoid talking about masonic sex rituals, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' No the thing is, how how freemasonic, how are freemasonic rituals work, based on uh certain things. When you get to a certain, a certain level of masonry they have um rituals based on a sexual kind, unfortunately and they usually um use an innocent person for this, and uh that's where the village bicycle thing comes in. You can actually have a lot of testimonies where people were used for this ritual. Innocent girls or innocent women and stuff for this, and it's usually based on a lot of times the the men take their own children or wives or people they know for this and uh they get sexually abused and go through a ritual and everything, which is bad. Like I saying we, they made it look like we were calling her a prostitute and saying she's a village bicycle. That's not true. We were saying, the reason they wanted her there because it's based on the context of them being Freemasons. So they turned it around now, they turned it around now and said we called her a village bicycle, called her a prostitute, which is not true. We didn't say she would even even take partake in any of that like we said all the time.
</blockquote>

There is no context whatsoever suggesting there was any kind sexual ritual, even if we assume the TFE guys were Freemasons. Somehow he thinks that it's OK to make accusations about people by first calling them Freemasons.

==== Misspeaking about it being a nude photo ====
The next backtracking he does is saying that he misspoke about it being a nude picture and he apologizes about claiming that Lisbeth sent the photo. Instead he is blaming Jeran for simply having a photo, which Flatzoid asserts to be Lisbeth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11593 3:13:13 Flatzoid accusing Jeran for having a lightly dressed photo of Lisbeth, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I shouldn't have said nude. I did fix myself afterwards and said nearly nude. Though, well, yeah, so yeah. Again that was in reply to uh McToon coming in and uh you know slandering my wife and bringing my wife into the argument.

'''Roger Ledwell:''' the question is why would he get a nearly nude photo of Lisbeth in the first place?

'''Flatzoid:''' Yes that one. Why, now again, I, I shouldn't have said Lisbeth sent it to her so that was wrong, cuz he could have got it off her profiles, you know what I mean?

'''Roger Ledwell:''' that's all I said

'''Flatzoid:''' But that was a misspeak. Sorry about that Lisbeth I didn't mean to say you sent it. It was just, I was caught off guard with McToon coming in and bringing my wife into it so that I didn't mean to say sending but yeah, it's just, I should have said it's weird that you would have pictures like that. You know what I mean?
</blockquote>

Note that Fkatzoid was claiming that MCToon was in the video livestream chat. This is a lie because Fkatzoid loves censorship so much that he has MCToon blocked on his channel so it's impossible.

==== He claims that he is not attacking Lisbeth, by attacking others ====
Flatzoid also claims that he didn't attack Lisbeth, because he didn't make live streams or videos about her, like he did with MCToon, Dave McKeegan and Will Duffy.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=13112 3:38:32 Flatzoid admitting he attacked MCToon, Will Duffy and Dave McKegan, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Admitting to attack someone else to avoid admitting to attack Lisbeth, doesn't help his case.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I mean if I really wanted to attack her, would I have not made a video by now or a live stream about it? Like I've been doing with McToon and McKeegan and Duffy. Would make live streams about it correct? Or videos?
</blockquote>

== Jeran ==
=== Revenge porn ===
Flatzoid received some [[Wikipedia:Revenge porn|revenge porn]] of [[Jeran Campanella]]. On April 1, 2025 Flatzoid boasted about this on his livestream and gave a highly distorted description that suggested there was a child victim involved:<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/Oc6T8J4kzwo?t=3775s 1:02:54 <q>Zach Star CLAPS BACK at Flat Earth Comments</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid admission about Jeran revenge porn.jpg|thumb|right|Flatzoid admitting the video showed no crime]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Every time the guy’s name comes up I just think of those videos sent to me.
'''[[Sovereign Soul Unchained Mind|SSUM]]:''' I haven’t seen ’em.
'''Flatzoid:''' You don’t want to. But let me put into context one of the videos. It’s a child’s torso, and he’s … [Flatzoid strikes his desk repeatedly].
'''SSUM:''' Wow.
'''[[Roger Ledwell]]:''' Nice.
</blockquote>

Two days later, when [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]] was challenging him on this, Flatzoid admitted the object in the video was actually some type of “doll” and that no crime was depicted.

<hr style="clear:both;"/>

=== Claiming Jeran is a pervert ===
In his fake apology to Lisbeth while Flatzoid was watching Dave McKeegan's stream, he shifted the blame to Jeran. <ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11664 3:14:24 Flatzoid calling Jeran a pervert, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid''': Um, oh, and I want to point out yes, uh everybody in the flat earth community knows just what Jeran sends to females and expects them to send to him.

'''PJ:''' He's disgusting

'''Flatzoid:''' So I'm not going to say anything further than that. Again not slander, not saying anything. If you don't believe me you can ask any other flatearther about the stuff. I don't want to say anything. I just say "Pray for the guy he's very perverted." That's it.
</blockquote>

== MCToon ==
Flatzoid repeated the [[“Kid in a basement” rumor]] about MCToon.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uNCAg7rfBDU?t=5729 1:35:39 Flatzoid accusing Toon, <q>So Cultured talks about flat earth</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I've got a statement from McToon who just came in, which I just blocked, um maybe you want to let go of the children tied to the pole in your basement.
</blockquote>

He also claims that MCToon is perverted, because he is friends with Jeran. <ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=9953 2:45:53 Flatzoid claiming that MCToon is perverted, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' McToon you can also come in and talk because I'm more than happy to tell you how perverted you are because everybody knows how perverted you are. You buddy buddy with Jeran.
</blockquote>

== Flatearthers who left ==
According to Flatzoid many of the people who reached out to people like Dave McKeegan, to say why they left flat earth, are just fabricated accounts.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0-0W5xaNQ8I?t=11119 3:05:19 Flatzoid claiming that flatearthers who quit are fake, <q>Albatross debunks the flat earth! Apparently</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I want to point out so many of these what he's claiming are fabricated fake accounts.
</blockquote>



= References =

<references />

[[Category:Religiflerfs]]
[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]

Flatter Day Saints

2026-02-17T16:28:50Z

PeterMarkley: Fix broken hyperlink

{{Infobox|image=File:Flatterdaysaints.jpg|location=US|platform=[https://www.youtube.com/@FLATTER-DAY-SAINTS YouTube]|antisemite=yes|religiflerf=yes|drinksUrine=Distills it first for maximum kidney failure}}

= Known Accounts =
* [https://www.youtube.com/@FLATTER-DAY-SAINTS FLATTER DAY SAINTS]

= Debate Analysis =

== February 2025 Debate vs. ADHD Projects ==

FDS got absolutely demolished in a debate on Modern Day Debate channel. It was a masterclass in how NOT to debate. The format was 10-minute opening statements followed by open discussion, which gave FDS plenty of time to embarrass himself.

=== The 5 Ds of Flerfing ===

FDS demonstrated all five Ds of flerfing: '''Duck, Dodge, Deflect, Dumb, and Duck''' (yes, duck twice—he's that good at it).

'''Duck & Dodge:''' When asked how southern star trails work on a flat earth, FDS dodged with "I don't know, I've never been to the Southern Hemisphere." Classic flerf move—if you can't explain it, pretend you haven't seen it!

'''Deflect:''' When presented with theodolite photos showing horizon dip, FDS deflected by claiming the horizon was "in the middle" of the photos. Even when ADHD pointed out the dip angle markers, FDS kept deflecting. Gotta lie to flerf!

'''Dumb:''' FDS tried to redefine geometry as "measurement of the earth" (geo = earth, get it bro??) and argued that "level" means flat even when shown Merriam-Webster's definition explicitly mentioning "conforming to the curvature of the liquid parts of earth's surface." The density was strong with this one.

'''Duck (again):''' When asked about how two observers in Australia and Africa can both look south and see stars rotating around the same point, FDS ducked completely. Just full-on admitted he had no explanation. At least he's honest about being clueless?

=== Personal Attacks ===

FDS couldn't argue the science, so he went for the classics:
* Called ADHD "disingenuous" when photos didn't match FDS's delusions
* "Intellectually dishonest" — projection much?
* "Bro" — used condescendingly approximately 47 times
* "It's almost laughable, bro" — said while being laughably wrong
* Accused ADHD of being "conditioned" (classic conspiracy theorist projection)
* "You're being dishonest, bro" — the mating call of the defeated flerf
* Claimed ADHD didn't understand basic concepts he clearly understood better than FDS

=== Evidence? What Evidence? ===

FDS presented these galaxy-brain arguments:
* '''Zodiac Wheel:''' Claimed astrologers use flat earth models. No evidence provided, just vibes.
* '''Airplanes:''' "They're called airplanes because they go over a plane." Yes, really. That's the argument.
* '''Neil deGrasse Tyson Misquote:''' Claimed Tyson said earth looks flat from 120,000 feet. Actually Tyson was commenting on fisheye lens distortion. FDS gotta lie to flerf!
* '''Army Research Lab Book:''' Cited a book he admitted he hadn't read. Peak flerf scholarship.
* '''Density:''' Tried to claim density explains falling objects, then dismissed vacuum chamber experiments where feathers and bowling balls fall at the same rate. "That would be great if we lived in a vacuum, bro." Yes, because removing air resistance proves gravity exists, not density.

=== The Meltdown ===

When cornered on southern star trails, FDS admitted: "I don't know" and "I can't prove" the flat earth model. He also admitted he had no explanation for how observers in different southern hemisphere locations see stars rotating around the same point. The earth isn't flat, but FDS's understanding of it sure is.

=== Verdict ===

FDS got bodied so hard he had to end with a religious appeal: "If I were to die today... I solemnly swear and attest to everything I said knowingly is true." When the science fails, appeal to God—that's the flerf way! Then he promoted his channel and invited people to debate "direct energy weapons, chemtrails and radium." Because when you lose on flat earth, pivot to even crazier conspiracies.

Classic flerf performance: Duck, dodge, deflect, lie, attack, repeat. FDS executed the playbook flawlessly. 🦝

= Other Info =
* Spreads [[Wikipedia:QAnon|QAnon]] conspiracy theories.
* Is responsible for creating the [[“Kid in a basement” rumor]].

[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Religiflerfs]]
[[Category:American flerfs]]

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T15:11:10Z

PeterMarkley: Add a hyperlink

This page documents examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] treating [[The Final Experiment]] as a threat and [[TFE debunk attempts|attempting to discredit it as a hoax]]. In doing this, they unwittingly admit that the physical evidence collected on the trip, especially the southern 24-hour sun, is a [[Wikipedia:Cognitive dissonance|threat to their worldview]].

Flerfs have repeatedly claimed, or expressed anxieties, that TFE is a “hit-piece.” In response to this, [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] has said:

<blockquote>I mean, how can you have a “hit-piece,” right? The fact that the sun doesn’t set [near the [[Wikipedia:Geographical pole|Pole]], around the [[Wikipedia:Solstice|Solstice]]] … That’s the “hit-piece.”<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/O_CJzkN-ENE?t=35m37s</ref></blockquote>

<blockquote>I didn’t have to stick the camera in [[[Austin Witsit|Witsit]]’s] face, I didn’t have to do anything to mock … None of that is necessary. That’s not the type of “hit-piece” that this is. This ''is'' a hit-piece. One hundred percent, it’s a hit-piece. The hit-piece is that the sun circled for 24 hours a day. That’s the hit-piece.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/2eAqrEpDZ5k?t=37m54s</ref></blockquote>

In other words, to a science denier (like a flerf) '''''reality itself'' is a “hit-piece,”''' and therefore so is anything that forces them to confront reality—such as TFE.

= Examples =
(in progress)

= See Also =
* [[TFE debunk attempts]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T15:09:41Z

PeterMarkley: Add see also

This page documents examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] treating [[The Final Experiment]] as a threat and attempting to discredit it as a hoax. In doing this, they unwittingly admit that the physical evidence collected on the trip, especially the southern 24-hour sun, is a [[Wikipedia:Cognitive dissonance|threat to their worldview]].

Flerfs have repeatedly claimed, or expressed anxieties, that TFE is a “hit-piece.” In response to this, [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] has said:

<blockquote>I mean, how can you have a “hit-piece,” right? The fact that the sun doesn’t set [near the [[Wikipedia:Geographical pole|Pole]], around the [[Wikipedia:Solstice|Solstice]]] … That’s the “hit-piece.”<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/O_CJzkN-ENE?t=35m37s</ref></blockquote>

<blockquote>I didn’t have to stick the camera in [[[Austin Witsit|Witsit]]’s] face, I didn’t have to do anything to mock … None of that is necessary. That’s not the type of “hit-piece” that this is. This ''is'' a hit-piece. One hundred percent, it’s a hit-piece. The hit-piece is that the sun circled for 24 hours a day. That’s the hit-piece.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/2eAqrEpDZ5k?t=37m54s</ref></blockquote>

In other words, to a science denier (like a flerf) '''''reality itself'' is a “hit-piece,”''' and therefore so is anything that forces them to confront reality—such as TFE.

= Examples =
(in progress)

= See Also =
* [[TFE debunk attempts]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:Lists]]

TFE debunk attempts

2025-12-17T15:08:28Z

PeterMarkley: Add category & see also

= TFE not an experiment =
In a debate against Will Duffy about TFE on Modern-Day Debate Flatzoid brought up a presentation about TFE not being an experiment and being a false dichotomy.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQqSOnGwRGk <q>DEBATE: Flat Earth and Antarctica Predictions | Will Duffy Vs Flatzoid | Podcast</q> by Modern-Day Debate]</ref>

[[File:Flatzoid presentation0.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation0.png}}]]

== What is Science? ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation1.png}}]]

TFE is science as they are observing the position of the sun in Antarctica in December to determine whether the globe prediction of a 24h sun or the flat earth prediction of "nuh-uh" is true.

== Sun observations ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation2.png}}]]

The globe predicts the sun's position exactly, as Flatzoid himself demonstrated when he observed the sunrise in Uvongo, even though he lied about the direction. The flat earth on the other hand can't make any predictions as [[Flatzoid#Predictions|Flatzoid himself declared]]. His claim of the angular size changing is a lie. What changes depending on weather conditions is the glare.

== Scientific Hypothesis ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation3.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation3.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation4.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation4.png}}]]

The hypothesises used are:
# Earth is a globe, orbiting the sun with an axial tilt, which predicts a 24h sun in December in Antarctica.
# Earth is flat with the North Pole in the center and Antarctica around the rim, the most popular flat earth model at the time, which predicts a 24h sun in Antarctica to be impossible. Of course the remaining flerfs immediately declared their model to not be a model, and retracted any claims as soon as they are being tested.

As we saw from the videos taking during TFE, the predicted outcome of Earth being a globe came true.

The variables are used later when it comes to testing the hypothesis.

== Independent Variable ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation5.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation5.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation6.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation6.png}}]]

In case of TFE the independent variables, yes Flatzoid you can have more than one independent variables, are location and time. They went to Antarctica in December to watch the sun moving 360° around them. The dependent variable is the sun's observed position from Earth, which depends on the location and time. To be really pedantic the independent variables for the globe are Earth's rotation, its axial tilt, its position in orbit around the sun, and the observer's location on Earth's surface. There is no need to directly manipulate the independent variable, they just need to change.

== False Dichotomy ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation7.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation7.png}}]]

[[File:Flatzoid presentation8.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation8.png}}]]

There were two potential outcomes for TFE:
# Sun sets.
# Sun doesn't set.

In the first case every model with a 24h sun (i.e. the globe) are falsified and every model with a setting sun gained a piece of evidence.

In the second case the opposite is true. Every model with a setting sun (i.e. a flat earth) are falsified and every model with a sun moving around the location gained evidence.

The conclusion of TFE was of course the second case, where the globe didn't just predict the existence of a 24h sun, but also the exact position of the sun and the shadows. The flat earth on the other hand couldn't provide any kind of model that even remotely matches the observations, so they just come up with more or less ridiculous reasons to call it fake. Many of them are listed below. The only actual attempt of a working model, I've seen was made by Joe Hanvey, which has the sun being reflected on the dome. That model doesn't explain how the sun can move around Union Glacier, and if it was true, it means that it's not possible to have a sunset.

== Glaring Issues ==
[[File:Flatzoid presentation9.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flatzoid presentation9.png}}]]

Will Duffy chose an observation that most flerfs agreed would falsify the flat earth and confirm the globe. As usual as soon as the project is being done, they always request other things. Just like they did when Mr.Sensible sent M.A.G.E. 2 to show curvature, they come up with excuses to not accept it.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFBq0xnCJKE&list=PLk6dtpIYGDmhSMTSpCG3kMWujbbM9o_NS <q>M.A.G.E</q> playlist by Mr Sensible Historic]</ref>

[[File:Mage2_curve.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve.png}}]]

Increasing the contrast makes Earth's curvature more visible.

[[File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png|600px|link={{filepath:File:Mage2_curve_high_contrast.png}}]]

For rotation, one way to see it is by using satellites, like this clip taken by GOES East<ref>[https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/index.php <q>GOES Image Viewer</q> by NOAA]</ref> during the solar eclipse of April 8, 2024. On Earth you can do an experiment like the Foucault's Pendulum<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8rrWUUlZ_U <q>Foucault's Pendulum: Watch the world turn.</q> by The Gentleman Physicist]</ref> or a precise enough gyroscope.

[[File:Solar-eclipse-small.gif|400px|link={{filepath:Solar-eclipse-small.gif}}]]

Gravity is the explanation for objects falling towards the ground and for orbits, like the moon orbiting the Earth, something that flat earth has not even an attempt of an explanation. Of course flatearthers always use some excuses to not use gravity, like saying it's buoyancy and density, even though buoyancy can't even exist without opposing another force, like the one caused by gravity.

An experiment that can be done, would be the Cavendish experiment<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbucRPiL92Q <q>The Cavendish Experiment - Obvious Gravitational Attraction</q> by MrLundScience]</ref>, which Flatzoid plans on doing himself. He needs to use the same scrutiny he used for TFE.

For example:
* A uninterrupted livestream. If the livestream is interrupted by a blackout or internet connectivity issues, the entire experiment is fake, according to his standard.
* There can't be any glitches or lens distortions, even when they can't be avoided.
* He has to call Steve from England during his livestream, as apparently that was important for TFE.
* There can't be anything orange, red, blue or any other color [[Flatzoid#Colors|he declares to be masonic]].
* He has to swear on the bible with his left hand, as [[Flatzoid#Putting_your_right_hand_on_the_bible|using the right hand is masonic]] according to him.
* There can't be any shoe, especially the left shoe, visible, as [[Flatzoid#Left_boot|that's masonic]] apparently.
* He can't form any kind of [[Flatzoid#Hand_sign|hand sign]] he declares to be masonic even accidentally.

= Someone said something =
== Sun going behind Mount Rossman ==
Flatzoid used a clip of Dave McKeegan saying that the sun was going behind Mount Rossman.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5sWcXU8QE <q>Unreal TFE</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In this context it simply means that the sun is further away than the mountain in the same direction as the mountain. It doesn't mean that the Mountain blocked the sun. Jeran shortly after in the same video was in Union Glacier Camp, where the sun can actually be blocked by the mountain at the end of the camp closest to the mountain.

=== Jeran said the sun set ===
The most ridiculous claim of fakery is the claim that Jeran said the sun sets. First Steve from England claimed that Jeran said the sun sets, which was debunked by DP Debunks.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pco9fPVPZs <q>Steve, Where’s My £1000? I Proved You Wrong!</q> by DP Debunks]</ref> Steve even acknowledged to be wrong and paid the 1000 £.

Now a new claim about Jeran saying the sun sets, was presented on Flatzoid's livestream.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TWRYniB1k40?t=3588 59:48 Jeran saying the sun sets?, <q>TFE The Final Experiment faked? Talk</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> By watching just a few seconds longer, it becomes clear that Jeran was talking about when he set up his mount.<ref>[https://youtu.be/VPNmpiwl5Vs?t=415 6:55 Jeran talking about setting up his mount, <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref> He simply wanted to make sure that he captured a full 24 hours, and wasn't a few minutes short.

= Camera issues =
== Toon and Duffy aging ==
In the same video<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> as in the previous lie, Flatzoid also claims that Toon and Will aged a lot, by comparing a video taken by a phone by one of the organizers of the Antarctica marathon, with the videos taken in Will's and Toon's home respectively. Something flerfs haven't done is to compare the videos Toon and Duffy took earlier in the year with the footage after TFE when the conditions are the same. It's like they know it won't work if they do that.

The main problem is when were they supposed to be in Antarctica before? The marathon is only in southern summer, so if they went for example in June, they wouldn't have met the marathon guys. In fact they wouldn't even have met them if they went a week earlier or later. Furthermore in Southern summer, Antarctica has 24h night. They also couldn't have gone a year earlier, as the first teaser was released on February 14 2024.

== Marathon runner breath ==
In a discussion with Witsit, Flatzoid claimed at the beginning that the breath of the marathon runners was always visible.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' We showed a video of the marathon runners there a day earlier and their breath was showing the whole time and they were also at Union Glacier. So why was it possible that their breath is always showing and your guys wasn't?<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=264 4:24 Flatzoid saying they always show their breath, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

When Witsit calls him out on that, he claims that he never said that we can always see the breath of the marathon runners.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Now you are lying because you didn't watch any of my content so when did I say we always see their breath? [...] I said most of the time.<ref>[https://youtu.be/HP8h4LTenbs?t=942 15:42 Witsit calling Flatzoid out, <q>Called out by Witsit!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

The breath is visible depending on the lighting conditions as shown by Dave McKeegan.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MsLg8Pjf-k <q>Does #Vapegate and 'No breath' destroy 'The Final Experiment'?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:Breath.png|600px|link={{filepath:Breath.png}}]]

In Jeran's live stream <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPNmpiwl5Vs <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref>
he shows that his breath becomes visible depending on his location. At the beginning his breath wasn't visible, but when he moved into to the shadow, it became visible.

[[File:Jeran_breath.png|600px|link={{filepath:Jeran_breath.png}}]]

== Camera glitching means that the video is fake? ==
In the discussion with Dave McKeegan, Dave showed the footage on his insta 360. Unfortunately the camera glitched and showed a green frame. Flatzoid, dishonest as usual, took that as evidence of fakery. <ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=1066 17:46 Camera glitch, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Dave camera glitch.png|400px|link={{filepath:"Dave camera glitch".png}}]]

== Sun changing shape ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun shouldn't change um shape and stuff, if they claiming a 93 million mile away sun. Just to let you guys know, because that's why they claim the sun wouldn't change angular size, because it's too far away. So what's what is their excuse actually for the sun warping and going like this.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=918 15:18 Flatzoid claiming the sun changes shape, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The sun didn't actually change shape. It's literally just lens distortion as Dave McKeegan shows.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1481 24:41 Dave McKeegan explaining lens distortion, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> Furthermore the sun appearing to change shape, demonstrates that it's not possible that the background was added to the footage. It simply wouldn't happen with a fake background.

In his livestream, Dave McKeegan shows that the distortion of the sun is different between different cameras, making it impossible that they just added a background.<ref>[https://youtu.be/W9-BKj5_87A?t=17696 4:54:56 Dave McKeegan comparing the different camera footage, <q>Flat Earth desperation reaching new heights?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref> It would require them to have a different background for each camera, with different lens distortions, while still matching the clouds.

[[File:Tfe_sun_comparison.png|800px|link={{filepath:Tfe_sun_comparison.png}}]]

== Two suns ==

[[File:Two_suns.png|800px|link={{filepath:Two_suns.png}}]]

Flatzoid thinks that this frame shows the real sun at the bottom and a fake sun on at the top.
<blockquote>
Yeah, this guys look, this, but look at that. When I saw this first I was like, hm could they just claim reflection or maybe the bottom is the real sun, the top is the fake one? Think about that guys because where's it reflecting off of because that's sky. That's where it's supposedly reflecting off of is sky. That is fake because even if you look at the sun angle, look at this it can more or less look like the sun's light is coming from there (from the bottom sun), not from there (from the top sun). Exactly. So this to me is a nail in the coffin. You can't have a reflection of the sun above the surface it's supposed to be on the surface and it also can't be a reflection, because if it's a curve, remember curves go like this, the light would not be able to go around like they're showing this. It wouldn't be able to be situated. It's showing it below the um the ground there, so that's a low sun, that is a fake sun. You can even see, look how clear (botom sun) that is and look how blurry (top sun). You see how clear this is, look how blurry the sun is there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1736 28:56 Flatzoid and the fake sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The bottom "sun" is a reflection on clouds. The actual sun is the one at the top. The sunlight clearly comes from above. If it came from below the hill Dave is standing on would be in shade, which it isn't. Furthermore, both suns are blurry because of the clouds.

We probably get more footage from that time once the documentary is released.

== Sun in front ==

=== Mountain ===
Flatzoid thinks the sun went in front of the mountain.

[[File:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sun_in_front_of_mountain.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The sun actually goes in front of the the mountain.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=1913 31:53 Flatzoid and the sun in front of the mountain, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That effect is literally just glare. The funny thing is that he filmed the same effect himself. Is he saying that the sun in his sunrise video went in front of the horizon?

[[File:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png|600px|link={{filepath:Uvongo-sunrise-flatzoid.png}}]]

=== Toon's head ===
"Flat Earth Reconnaissance" brought up a similar claim that the sun is in front of Toon's head. <ref>[https://youtu.be/0BzYJpl4ppE?t=2906 48:26 Toon's head behind the sun, <q>The Final Experiment Discussion | Sam Flat Earth Reconnaissance vs. Dave McKeegan & Me | 10-22--2025</q> by jeranism]</ref>

[[File:Toon_sun.png|600px|link={{filepath:Toon_sun.png}}]]

Jeran presented a video where the sun appears to be in front of the pole.<ref>[https://youtu.be/0BzYJpl4ppE?t=2979 49:39 Sun behind pole, <q>The Final Experiment Discussion | Sam Flat Earth Reconnaissance vs. Dave McKeegan & Me | 10-22--2025</q> by jeranism]</ref>

[[File:Sun_lamppost.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sun_lamppost.png}}]]

== Lens flares ==
Flatzoid doesn't understand that the lens flares will be the same after 24 hours when using the same camera pointed at the sun at the same angle, which is the case when the camera is mounted on a rotating tripod.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkqf9rQzy8 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares, <q>WIll Duffy Lied about the 24 Hour sun video again!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Lensflares.png|600px|link={{filepath:Lensflares.png}}]]

He also doesn't understand that different lenses result in different flares.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2324 38:44 Flatzoid not understanding lens flares again, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The point I'm trying to make now is, look at the sun specifically. How it looks okay and we can compare it to actual footage from Antarctica, that's practically how it looks, but the ones we saw from their 24hour time lapses and stuff doesn't look like that.
</blockquote>

For comparison, here is a frame from the TFE trailer.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PFKCnrcT8 <q>The Final Experiment Documentary - Official Trailer</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_trailer.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_trailer.png}}]]

And one from Dave McKeegan's 24h timelapse.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M <q>Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

[[File:tfe_sun_timelapse.png|600px|link={{filepath:tfe_sun_timelapse.png}}]]

== Corner ==
YouTube maps a 360° video on a cube, which result in some artifacts like seeing a corner in the footage. Flerfs think that means the 24h sun was filmed in a studio.

[[File:Corner.png|600px|link={{filepath:Corner.png}}]]<ref>[https://youtu.be/R3SvwVEEIW8?t=272 4:32 Corner, <q>TFE Mistakes Compilation</q> by Flat Earth Reconnaissance]</ref>

= Environment =
== Union Glacier Camp not visible ==
Another lie is the claim that Toon and Duffy filmed the site off season, when Union Glacier Camp wasn't set up, because the camp isn't visible in the footage.<ref name="flat tfe lie compilation"/> In reality the camp is simply lower than halfway-point, where TFE was, as shown by the drone footage.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1yKGnMzVoE <q>The Final Experiment Mile High Drone with Ascent and Descent by Will Duffy Telemetry by WheresWally</q> by WheresWally]</ref>

[[File:Union-glacier-drone.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union-glacier-drone.png}}]]

== Snow ==
Flatzoid talks about Witsit walking a few meters away to get some snow.
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Asked this many times. Uh, why did he walk away to get snow? Well his argument was there was no loose snow by him. Where if you look at the 360 footage, there is a lot of snow right by the camera on the barrel where his uh laptop was.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=634 10:34 Flatzoid talking about Witsit getting snow, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The area around the TFE location was compacted, so it's not easy to grab the snow. Witsit simply didn't notice the snow near the barrel, so he simply walked to a place outside of the compacted area to get some loose snow.

What is even the argument? Witsit didn't use the snow near the barrel, therefore that snow is fake? Either all the snow is fake or all is real. It makes no sense to use different kinds of material to use as snow.

Arctic Reflections made a video about the snow.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPwRaF4rq8g <q>The South African flat earth snow expert!</q> by Arctic Reflections]</ref>

== Footprints ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' When they were walking on that, um, on that compacted ice, snow, there was supposed to show footprints even if it is compacted. Remember it's got little ridges and they, their shoes have little, uh, you know, every all shoes, all in their soles always have little indentations and things like that. So it should break off pieces of that. It didn't break off nothing um and sometimes they walked that showed, sometimes it didn't, sometimes the the uh footprints, it just appeared out of nowhere. So yes the nonsense excuse of no there was it was just compact ice.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=745 12:25 Flatzoid complaining about lack of footprints, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The snow around the TFE camp was compacted so it's difficult to leave footprints. Footprints still accumulated over time as Dave McKeegan shows in his video.<ref>[https://youtu.be/AfQcTpXCLv8?t=1278 21:18 Dave McKeegan explaining footprints, <q>Flat Earthers excuses are getting desperate now</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

Furthermore Will Duffy's 24 non time lapse video shows the participants leave footprints.<ref>[https://youtu.be/Gv4nUyTQcVw?t=790 13:10 Leaving footprints in Antarctica, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 1)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

== Weather reports ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' I remember when we were still, um, watching the live from uh from Witsit and them and we were like, we went over the weather report there, and we're looking at the Witsit live weather report while they were there, and it was showing cloudy and windy, yet while they were live there was no clouds, there were, there was no wind and we've never got an answer to it at all.
</blockquote>

Antarctica is a large continent with very few weather stations. So the weather reports are less accurate than in more populated areas. There was a storm coming up, that's the reason they had to leave a day earlier.

== Sun ==
=== Local sun ===
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' There's only two possibilities here the sun is real for some odd reason there and uh they filmed a local sun. Great so let's say we accepted their deception as real, yes then they just to proved that the sun was local and not 93 million miles away, but if we do uh also accept that it's just a deception and nothing they presented was actually evidential as true, it debunks them anyway because it also shows they had to fabricate it, because it didn't suit their narrative. So it doesn't matter which way they go. They proved the sun is not 93 million miles away and they proved it's not a globe.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=683 11:23 Flatzoid talking about the sun, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

That makes absolutely no sense. How does the sun being real and the same angular size as it is in Uvongo South Africa, where Flatzoid filmed the sun, mean that the sun is locally moving 360° around Union Glacier, which doesn't work on any flat earth? The globe predicted the exact position of the sun and the resulting shadows for a sun that's about 151 million km away, on a rotating globe. The flat earth couldn't even predict that the sun would be visible for 24 hours or that the sun rises South of East in Uvongo, South Africa in Southern Summer as Flatzoid himself demonstrated.

There is no prediction of a local sun that matches the observations, so how is the local sun correct?

=== Sun distance not demonstrated ===
Flerfs are getting desperate and are claiming that TFE failed because they didn't demonstrate that the sun is 93 million miles away.

[[File:Sun_distance.png|700px|link={{filepath:Sun_distance.png}}]]

Flerfs don't even understand that the distance to the sun is not relevant to the observation, so they are grasping at straws, as they notice the flat earth doesn't explain anything.

=== Sun is North of Union Glacier? ===
While discussing The Final Experiment's observation of the Sun in Antarctica, Flatzoid referred to the Time and Date's map on their website for December 14, 2024, and said that since the Sun's icon was placed north of Antarctica on the map at local midnight, the participants of TFE were lying because they saw the Sun towards their South, as it should have been North of them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/tp4cssxfJd8?si=r5U1zvOnlQU-Bmj4&t=6296 1:44:56 <q>It's a Psyop 5k special</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

The first mistake he made is that he use midnight UTC, which is not local midnight. At that time the sun is West of the TFE camp.

[[File:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-midnight-utc.png}}]]

Local Midnight is around 6:00 UTC.

[[File:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Timeanddate-local-midnight.png}}]]

The second mistake is that he treated a [[Wikipedia:Cylindrical projection|cylindrical map projection]] as representative of globe geometry (just like flerfs do when claiming [[Flight paths|flight paths don’t work on a globe]]). This is so elementary as to be plainly dishonest.

On the globe the actual position of the sun is indeed South of Union Glacier at local midnight in the direction of Mount Rossman. The worst part is that Flatzoid actually knows that. He showed that in a [[Flatzoid#Flatzoid_confuses_East_and_West|previous stream]] where he confused East and West using Google Earth.

[[File:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png|600px|link={{filepath:Google-Earth-TFE-Local-midnight.png}}]]

In case Flatzoid complains about the compass in the top right corner showing North towards the left, that's because my position above the globe is slightly left of the South Pole. It's in the direction of South from the position of the TFE camp.

=== The sun is a reflection ===

Flerfs claim that the sun is a reflection in Antarctica. Dave McKeegan presented two tests to show that's not the case.<ref>[https://youtu.be/TbluPxJhOxA <q>The Sun is a reflection?</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

1) He compared the sunspots in Antarctica with the photos taken at different locations on Earth. The sunspots are rotated like the globe predicts, but not reflected.

[[File:Sunspots.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sunspots.png}}]]

2) The second test is by using a polarization filter. Reflections are polarized while the sun itself isn't.

[[File:Sunreflection.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sunreflection.png}}]]

[[File:Sunfilter.png|600px|link={{filepath:Sunfilter.png}}]]

=== The light is not the sun ===
Flerfs are also claiming that the bright object in the sky is not the sun, or at least wasn't demonstrated to be the sun. The sunspots demonstrate that the bright object in the sky is indeed the sun as other people around the globe observed as well.

[[File:Not_sun.png|600px|link={{filepath:Not_sun.png}}]]

Toon also has a page about the sun
<ref>[https://mctoon.net/sun/ <q>What do people know about the Sun</q> by MCToon]</ref>
, which flerfs of course refuse to even look at.

== Vanishing vehicles ==
Flatzoid thinks the vehicles just disappear.<ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=2147 35:47 Flatzoid confused by Vehicles going downhill, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> In fact they simply went downhill as Union Glacier is lower than the TFE camp.

== Flatzoid and the South pole ==
Flatzoid thinks that the existence of the South pole in reality is a straw-man, because the flat earth doesn't have a South pole. He also doesn't understand that 90° is not a single location on a flat earth. It's only a single location on the globe.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/tK81Jp_XTJk?t=3106 51:46 <q>The Pole is Duffy's new strawman</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Will Duffy asked him to point out where 90° South is on a map, which of course Flatzoid couldn't answer and just kept deflecting.<ref name="flatzoid south pole">[https://youtu.be/mB5cNbQj3fc?t=315 5:15, <q>Deceptive Duffy show up</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>
</blockquote>

In case Flatzoid reads the wiki. The sign of Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station shows Antarctica as the continent it is on the globe.

[[File:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg|400px|link={{filepath:Amundsen-scott-south-pole-base.jpg}}]]

In another stream, Flatzoid's panel talks about there being seven South Poles and Flatzoid just accepts that as truth.<ref>[https://youtu.be/cQnm1mhMP6g?t=277 4:37 The seven poles, <q>Blerfers Always Rinse and Repeat?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

== Glaciers are not on land ==
Flatzoid thinks that glaciers aren't on land.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Maybe, um maybe Mr Duffy doesn't do his homework, like he claims to do. Union Glacier is a glacier it's not Antarctica.

'''SSUM:''' right

'''Flatzoid:''' It's ice. You're on a glacier. You're on a big block of ice.

'''???:''' Like a plateau, a giant plateau.

'''Flatzoid:''' you have to go deeper to reach Antarctica. Actually they claim it's part of Antarctica but it's just the outer edges, the how can I put it, the Stup.

'''SSUM:''' The shoreline.

'''Flatzoid:''' Yeah the shoreline. The, the Ice, yeah, it's not actually the land.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/GEmFjWYn1Cs?t=3690 1:01:30 Flatzoid confusing icebergs and glaciers, <q>TFE shows more fakery?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Glaciers are ice masses on land.

<blockquote>
A glacier (US: /ˈɡleɪʃər/; UK: /ˈɡlæsiə/ or /ˈɡleɪsiə/) is a persistent body of dense ice, a form of rock, that is constantly moving downhill under its own weight. A glacier forms where the accumulation of snow exceeds its ablation over many years, often centuries. It acquires distinguishing features, such as crevasses and seracs, as it slowly flows and deforms under stresses induced by its weight. As it moves, it abrades rock and debris from its substrate to create landforms such as cirques, moraines, or fjords. Although a glacier may flow into a body of water, it forms only on land and is distinct from the much thinner sea ice and lake ice that form on the surface of bodies of water.
</blockquote><ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier <q>Glacier</q> by Wikipedia]</ref>

Furthermore, Union Glacier is over 700 km away from the closest shoreline.

[[File:Union_glacier_location.png|600px|link={{filepath:Union_glacier_location.png}}]]

== Wind ==
According to flerfs there is no wind in the videos, but if you actually watch the non-timelapse videos, you can hear the wind.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/R60wq4XQiZc <q>360-Degree Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica Refutes Flat Earthers! (Backstory in description)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoOrCTZimA <q>360-Degree Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica Refutes Flat Earthers! - Part 2</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/yXtFAbLyjVs <q>360-Degree Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica Refutes Flat Earthers! - Part 3</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

Even better, in Toon's 24h sun videos, you can watch the wind move the flags.
<ref name=Toon1>[https://youtu.be/qbQJx9T5_WU <q>Antarctic 360° Real Time 24 Hour Sun Part A</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
<ref name=Toon2>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95P8urNDzDQ <q>Antarctic 360° Real Time 24 Hour Sun Part B</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
<ref name=Toon3>[https://youtu.be/Mp4E2PQLUgg <q>Antarctic 360° Real Time 24 Hour Sun Part C</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

[[File:Flag_wind_1.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flag_wind_1.png}}]]

[[File:Flag_wind_2.png|600px|link={{filepath:Flag_wind_2.png}}]]

== Drone gate ==

Flerfs think that the drone beeps because it's close to a wall, completely ignoring that Toon is the obstruction that the drone detected.

[[File:Drone.png|600px|link={{filepath:Drone.png}}]]<ref>[https://youtu.be/kgooRDnP6-4?t=229 3:49 Dronegate, <q>TFE Mistakes Compilation - Part 2</q> by Flat Earth Reconnaissance]</ref>

== Blue shadows ==
Flerfs think that blue shadows means that it's fake. As the following photo shows, blue shadows are perfectly normal in snowy environments.

[[File:Blue_shadow.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Blue_shadow.jpg}}]]
<ref>[https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-image-snow-shadow-image413166 <q>Snow and Shadow</q> by dreamstime]</ref>

= How to fake =
== Flatzoid claims TFE was rendered in Unreal Engine ==
During a debate between Flatzoid and Dave McKeegan, Flatzoid claimed that he thinks that TFE could have been done in Unreal Engine.

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' My uh idea is how they could have faked it was Duffy or someone could have gone earlier and and got high def HDRs uh surround environments of Antarctica, because when you look at the in the footage we don't see Union Glacier anywhere around there and they're only about 1.5 km away you should see Union Glacier camp we don't see Union Glacier camp at Mount Rossman. So that shows that they were either probably there when it was off-season when there were no tourists available, they were able to get their uh environment done, HDR environment done, and they could make recreate it in Unreal Engine 5 if they wanted to and therefore when they did all really go down in December they were able to just fake the sky and have the rest as a real environment.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=11820s 7:18 Flatzoid claiming TFE was faked in Unreal Engine, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>
</blockquote>

Dave McKeegan made a great video about how it's not possible to use Unreal Engine to fake TFE.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7h1gwmNzU <q>We faked the 24hr sun with Unreal Engine .... Apparently</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

As for the camp not being visible, [[Flatzoid#Union_Glacier_Camp_not_visible|that was already explained before]].

== Green Screen ==
[[File:Green_screen.png|500px|link={{filepath:Green_screen.png}}]]

Flatzoid tried to show how TFE was faked by supposedly using a green screen<ref>[https://youtu.be/fj7_F9qTv3k?t=1170 19:30 Flatzoid failing to understand green screens, <q>How to fake the final experiment</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>, completely ignoring that the TFE team already showed that it's not possible for them to have used a green screen.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxC9cZx5Jcw <q>The Final Experiment Drone Supercut Time Synchronized Videos Debunking Dronegate 4K</q> by WheresWally]</ref> WheresWally's video also shows that a studio is not possible as they are walking through a vastly larger area, also the studio can't be used with multiple different cameras filming it from vastly different angles.

[[File:Drone_supercut.png|500px|link={{filepath:Drone_supercut.png}}]]

=== Chroma Key ===
Related to the Green Screen is the flerf claim that the trip was faked because Will forgot to turn off the Chroma key setting on his computer. Rational wiki has a good image showing how it would look like if they actually used a green screen.<ref>[https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/e/e1/Chroma_key_debunk.jpg Chroma Key <q>The Final Experiment</q> b< Rational wiki]</ref>

[[File:Chroma_key_debunk.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Chroma_key_debunk.jpg}}]]

== Sun Projection ==
DITRH claims that the sun is a projection. Rational wiki calculated how much energy would be required to create a realistic sun.<ref>[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Final_Experiment#.22The_Sun_was_a_hologram.2C_faked_using_multiple_projectors.21.22 Power calculation for projected sun, <q>The Final Experiment</q> by Rational wiki]</ref>

[[File:Sun_projection.png|500px|link={{filepath:Sun_projection.png}}]]
<ref>[https://youtu.be/5Mcz44uN_II?t=375 6:15 DITRH sun projection, <q>The Most Ridiculous Flat Earth Explanation You'll Ever See</q> by SciManDan]</ref>

== LED Studio ==

Another way flerfs claim how it could have been faked is by using an LED wall. The problem with that is that LED walls don't produce shadows and they aren't fully enclosed. Furthermore you might notice they don't have a corner as was claimed as evidence before.

[[File:Led_studio_shadows.png|500px|link={{filepath:Led_studio_shadows.png}}]]
<ref>[https://youtu.be/Ufp8weYYDE8?t=146 2:26 LED screen, <q>Why 'The Mandalorian' Uses Virtual Sets Over Green Screen | Movies Insider</q> by Insider]</ref>

== The sun is Satan ==
Probably the most ridiculous claim comes from Dean Odle, who says that the sun is Satan.

<blockquote>
'''Dean Odle:''' Satan has a lot invested in this. You don't think he would go: "Okay boys, y'all head on down there to Antarctica, I'll be there on this day. I'll clear the weather up for for you and I'll be the Angelic light in the sky." Cuz, see I'm going to tell you right now, I've always said there could be sunlight there but not the sun.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/-GCVcZtJ7L8?t=48 00:48 Dean Odle claiming the sun is Satan, <q>The Flat Earthers are Really Starting to Panic About The Final Experiment</q> by SciManDan]</ref>

== Las Vegas Sphere ==
Some flerfs think it was faked in the Las Vegas Sphere. One obvious problem with that claim is that there are rows of seats in the way.

[[File:Las_vegas_sphere_inside.jpg|500px|link={{filepath:Las_vegas_sphere_inside.jpg}}]]<ref>[https://www.dreamsabroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Photo-by-Chris-Combe-Made-Available-by-Flickr-A-Look-at-the-Graphics-Inside-the-Sphere-Las-Vegas-During-a-U2-Concert-How-to-Visit-the-Sphere-in-Las-Vegas-1-scaled.jpg <q>Las Vegas Sphere inside</q> by Chris Combe]</ref>

= General Issues =
== Plane flight ceiling ==
According to Flatzoid the flight ceiling of planes flying over Antarctica is 13,000 feet.<ref>[https://youtu.be/uwUNP55gb2Y?t=2211 36:51 Flight ceiling, <q>Can You REALLY Trust The Biblical Flat Earth Model?</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' Why they have a ceiling of 13,000 ft when flying in Antarctica?
</blockquote>

Of course that's a lie. The planes fly at over 35,000 ft. Apparently Flatzoid already looked that up himself.

[[File:Antarctica altitude.png|400px|link={{filepath:Antarctica_altitude.png}}]]

== Calling Steve from England ==
Flatzoid had a livestream with Steve from England and Will Duffy to ask among other things about Will not calling Steve on the first day.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqXCpgOmmBM <q>Let's have a talk!</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref> Steve was annoyed that he wasn't called the first day, even though Will specifically stated that he might not be able to call Steve on the first day.

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' So let's talk about the clouds for a second. So I don't know which day we're going to be able to do this. Um, maybe we can do it on the 14th, but if, but if we can't, maybe we'll do it on the 15th. We have, we have a few days, if there's cloud coverage, I think what we should do is, try to do it the next day, and I think we should try to do it each day until we have clear skies.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2457 40:57 Will talking about cloud coverage with Steve, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Will Duffy:''' I'm giving you my my word here publicly and I'm looking forward to doing this test with you specifically at that time one of the days we're there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/8jAG9uxQxgw?t=2783 46:23 Will Duffy telling Steve that he will call one of the days he is in Antarctica, <q>Flat Earther Will Admit He's Wrong if We Do THIS in Antarctica</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

If having a live call is so important, Critical Think had one with his friend<ref name="critical_call">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Ij1lr5OKs <q>Conversations with a flattie about the Sun.</q> by Critical Think]</ref>. There is a second call, <q>Where are the guns</q> call between Toon and Oakley<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bwNkVviosM <q>I Called a Flat Earther from Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4Esq_qgGM <q>Two sides of a story: McToon calls Oakley</q> by Bert Rickles]</ref>. That call wasn't livestreamed, but the 360° cameras captured it.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vzGvqEObA6c?t=2353 39:13 Where are the guns, <q>World's First Non-Timelapse Video of the 24-Hour Sun in Antarctica! (Part 3)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref><ref>[https://youtu.be/jliLRasB48U?t=1157 19:17 Where are the guns, <q>360° Timelapse of capturing the 24hr Antarctic sun</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

== 24 hour live stream ==
Flatzoid and his panel like to bring up the TFE team not having a 24 hour livestream. Will never promised that they will have a 24 hour live stream, as he didn't know how well the Starlink would perform in Antarctica. He did attempt it, but because of a software update of his phone and Starlink, the stream was interrupted and in the end aborted. Flerfs like to demand the evidence they didn't get, and even if they did get it, they wouldn't accept it.

There were multiple live streams during TFE
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LNSbStu9c <q>It's Midnight in Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1vXwAT6P5k <q>There Are No Green Screens in Antarctica (Here's Proof!)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBIyN7ZWifE <q>The Final Experiment Live from Antarctica!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQ7nklL8X4 <q>Live 100% Flat Earth Destruction Guaranteed</q> by MCToon Live]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDJlAfTgns <q>Critical Think is live at Union Glacier</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref name="critical_call"/>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQknVsqbDfg <q>Critical Think in Antarctica live with the Wolf Pack</q> by Critical Think]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOYpeysawuw <q>The 24 hour sun has been captured in Antarctica!</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOW_FTWMVV0 <q>We are LIVE from ANTARCTICA. Like WTF. Share this! Insanity</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPNmpiwl5Vs <q>Antarctica! Where The Sun Doesn’t Set! LIVE</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nteDLN8kX2k <q>SUNSPOT Observations from 80 Degrees South</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjTegLsl6lQ <q>My Last Live From The Ice. Goodbye Antarctica! You Will Not Be Missed!</q> by jeranism]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3839ioLw6-o <q>Flat Earther and Film Maker on #TheFinalExperiment - Live From Antarctica!</q> by Jonathan Mariande]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxzu2reS_o <q>Live from Antarctica - One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Flat Earth</q> by Witsit Gets It]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idrvFgrMK_A <q>Showing experiments in Antarctica</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
, the ones taking place outside at halfway point, were all captured by the 360° cameras.

Of course they are just claiming that all of those were fake.

== Boarding pass ==
Some flerfs requested the boarding pass of everyone. As if one of them can't show their pass, then the ones who showed it, didn't go. Both Toon
<ref>[https://mctoon.net/tfe/ <q>The Final Experiment</q> by MCToon]</ref>
and Dave
<ref>[https://youtu.be/0BzYJpl4ppE?t=7621 2:07:01 Dave's boarding pass, <q>The Final Experiment Discussion | Sam Flat Earth Reconnaissance vs. Dave McKeegan & Me | 10-22--2025</q> by jeranism]</ref>
presented their tickets, of course getting the tickets isn't accepted when presented. Toon uploaded the full flight from Punta Arenas to Antarctica to demonstrate that they actually went to Antarctica.<ref>[https://youtu.be/vNGG91BJTfQ <q>Flight to Antarctica December 2024</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

[[File:Dave_ticket.png|400px|link={{filepath:Dave_ticket.png}}]]

[[File:Toon_boarding_pass_digital.png|400px|link={{filepath:Toon_boarding_pass_digital.png}}]]
[[File:Toon_boarding_pass_paper.png|400px|link={{filepath:Toon_boarding_pass_paper.png}}]]

Jeran burned his ticket in Antarctica.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/zMGeIDli4MA?t=15893 4:24:53 Jeran burning his ticket, <q>jeranism Antarctica GoPro Chest Cam Footage Full HD Flight & Landing - Union Glacier Camp - 12/2024</q> by jeranism]</ref>

[[File:Jeran_burn_ticket.png|400px|link={{filepath:Jeran_burn_ticket.png}}]]

Flat Earth Reconnaissance is fully aware of that, as it's in his <q>TFE Mistakes Compilation</q> video.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/kgooRDnP6-4?t=517 8:37 Jeran boarding pass, <q>TFE Mistakes Compilation - Part 2</q> by Flat Earth Reconnaissance]</ref>
They are asking for something they already have.

[[File:Jeran_boarding_pass.png|400px|link={{filepath:Jeran_boarding_pass.png}}]]

=== Lying about claiming they didn't go ===
Additionally there are other flerfs claiming that no flerf claims that the TFE participants didn't go.

[[File:Not_sun.png|500px|link={{filepath:Not_sun.png}}]]

= Timing issues =
== Date of Arrival ==
<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' 10th of December. He claimed they literally got there and then they had to get ready and go eat, and then leave the next day, to uh go to uh Union Glacier. And they went to Union Glacier on the 14th. So that means his ticket that says the 10th of December shows he was at Punta Arenas way before he claimed to be there.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/oRlfyBtP8uQ?t=7166 1:59:26 Flatzoid and the ticket, <q>The #1 TFE Misconception That's Ruining Your Biblical Understanding</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

Jeran arrived on the 10th at Punta Arenas. They stayed a few days in Punta Arenas, where they did some observations like the sunset in the South West, before continuing their journey to Union Glacier. After they arrived at Union Glacier on the 14th that's when he said that they arrived, ate something and moved immediately to the TFE camp.

== No 24h sun footage before TFE ==
Plenty of flerfs claim that TFE is fake because there should have been footage of the 24h sun already. Of course footage of the 24h sun already exists
<ref name="frozen">[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgZa9oZDN5g <q>Frozen South: Antarctica 24 hour Sun 4K</q> by Anthony Powell]</ref>
<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEZ7Jel62js <q>Antarctica 24hr Sunlight VR 8K</q> by Anthony Powell]</ref>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/K0ICoBENwiM?t=787 13:07 24h sun, <q>Anthony Powell Vindicated by The Final Experiment</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>
, which flerfs obviously just call fake.

Additionally <q>Earth Is Life</q> made a compilation video of people witnessing the 24h sun in Antarctica. <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiXtZpM3vpk <q>Yes, The 24 Hour Sun Is Real. We've Seen it. Are They All Lying? #thefinalexperiment</q> by Earth Is Life]</ref>

<blockquote>
'''Ron Harris (The Limitless Channel):''' Uh all the different videos of the sun in the south circling above the horizon started coming out last spring after Will announced his final experiment.
</blockquote><ref>[https://youtu.be/XzqbEp32c-E?t=1279 <q>SBVR Explains Every One of Duffy’s 12 “Experiments”: While SPACEBALL SHILLS McToon & FTFE Run & Hide</q> by Awake Souls]</ref>

That's clearly a lie. The "Frozen South" video for example was posted in 2015.<ref name="frozen" />

== P3 Orion ==
SSUM claims that TFE didn't take place at the time they tell, because of a Facebook post from December 17, 2024 about an Orion plane landing, which wasn't mentioned by the TFE participants.

[[File:Orion_ale.png|600px|link={{filepath:Orion_ale.png}}]]<ref>[https://www.facebook.com/antarcticlogistics/posts/history-in-the-making-ale-is-proud-to-support-the-chilean-navys-first-landing-of/1127544872629801/ <q>Antarctic Logistics & Expeditions's post</q> by ALE]</ref>

The plane actually landed on Saturday the 7th December 2024.

<blockquote>
El sábado 7 fue un día histórico para la Armada de Chile (ACH). Luego de cinco horas de vuelo y cerca de medio año de preparación, la aeronave P-3 “Orión” ACH aterrizó en la Estación Polar Científica Conjunta “Glaciar Unión”, ubicada en la latitud 80° Sur, en la Tierra de Ellsworth, sobre el Territorio Chileno Antártico.

'''Translation:''' Saturday the 7th was a historic day for the Chilean Navy (ACH). After a five-hour flight and nearly six months of preparation, the ACH P-3 "Orion" aircraft landed at the "Unión Glacier" Joint Scientific Polar Station, located at 80° South latitude in Ellsworth Land, Chilean Antarctic Territory.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.armada.cl/avion-de-la-armada-de-chile-y-equipo-del-centro-de-estudios-cientificos <q>Avión de la Armada de Chile y equipo del Centro de Estudios Científicos aterrizan en Glaciar Unión – Antártica y marcan un hito en la Aviación Naval chilena</q> by armada.cl]</ref>

== They went a year earlier ==
Flerfs like Flatzoid claim that the TFE people went to Antarctica a year earlier to film the background to use the year they went. How does that claim even make sense? If they already went a year earlier they could have filmed the 24h sun a year earlier. They had live streams where they interacted with the chat while filming the 24h sun, and being filmed by the cameras.

= Masonic rituals =
== Nipples on ice ==
Taking a group photo with some people being topless is also masonic, according to Flatzoid or his viewers.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xhvYvFWps&t=452s 30:31 Dave McKeegan explaining the topless group photo, <q>A Flat Earth "Debate" - Dave McKeegan VS Flatzoid - Was The Sun In Antarctica Fake?</q> by Craig McNeill - FTFE]</ref>

[[File:Mason_checker.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_checker.png}}]]

<blockquote>
'''Flatzoid:''' The problem with that is it's based on a Mason ritual. Especially the the check, cuz it's shirt off, shirt on, shirt off, shirt on, and that's why everybody is saying, yeah it's based on on Freemason symbolism.
</blockquote>

== Left boot ==
According to Flatzoid putting a left boot under a table is masonic.<ref name=mason>[https://youtu.be/HTqefl2irYo?t=2530 42:10 Flatzoid masonic rituals, <q>Coffee chat</q> by Creality Jesus Saves]</ref>

[[File:Mason_boot.png|500px|link={{filepath:Mason_boot.png}}]]

When you actually read the text, which Flatzoid obviously didn't. You can see that the ritual involves taking off your shoe when entering a building. Dave McKeegan was outside and didn't even wear that boot.

<blockquote>
The custom of removing shoes on entering a sacred building dates to extreme antiquity, it is a token of reverence and humility.

It is known as the “Rite of Discalceation” and in the language of symbolism, signifies that the place that is approached in reverence and humility is consecrated to some holy purpose.
</blockquote><ref>[https://www.thesquaremagazine.com/mag/article/202302masonic-miscellanies-bare-feet-and-freemasonry/ Bare Feet and Fremasonery, by the square magazine]</ref>

The boot was used to keep the battery packs warm. Another claim concerning the boot is that the boot couldn't be used for that, because the boot would cool down. It does indeed cool down a bit when leaving it outdoors, but it still provided insulation and it's black color let it heat up by the 24h sun, and the battery packs themselves also produced heat.

= Bringing Stuff =

Flatearthers demanded that TFE bring all kind of stuff with them. <ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57HL7U621OI&t=1526s Listing stuff for TFE, <q>TFEhouse of Horror</q> by Rusted Sol]</ref>

== Sextant ==

They didn't bring a sextant to measure elevation angles, but Toon did measure the sun's elevation using a sextant app on his phone and by using the length of the shadows that were predicted before the trip.
<ref name=Toon1/>
<ref name=Toon2/>
<ref name=Toon3/>

[[File:Toon_shadow_experiment.png|600px|link={{filepath:Toon_shadow_experiment.png}}]]

== Foucault's Pendulum ==

Using a Foucault's pendulum on the trip was simply not possible. For that they needed a large enough building, where the pendulum could swing undisturbed, which doesn't exist at Union Glacier. The best they had available was that small hut, which was too small, and people went in an out all the time.

= Additional Experiments =

A list of the experiments done during TFE can be found on Toon's site.
<ref>[https://mctoon.net/tfe-experiments/ <q>TFE experiments</q> by MCToon]</ref>

== Jason Laufenberg (Awake Souls) and Ron Harris (The Limitless Channel) ==

Jason and Ron made a video trying to debunk the additional experiments done during TFE.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/XzqbEp32c-E <q>SBVR Explains Every One of Duffy’s 12 “Experiments”: While SPACEBALL SHILLS McToon & FTFE Run & Hide</q> by Awake Souls]</ref>

First something really stupid. The map they are referring to in the description is a projection of the globe.

[[File:Awake_Souls_map.png|600px|link={{filepath:Awake_Souls_map.png}}]]

[[File:Awake_Souls_map_projection.png|600px|link={{filepath:Awake_Souls_map_projection.png}}]]
<ref>[https://youtu.be/r-lpPfXkU74?t=1954 32:34 Awake Souls Map projection, <q>THE FINAL DEBATE - The Biggest Debate in Flat Earth History!</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref>

The website he is using even tells him that.

<blockquote>
As discussed in my real country size mercator map, there aren’t any perfect map projections as you try to represent the 3-dimensional surface of a sphere on a 2-dimensional map. Each map projection has advantages and disadvantages.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://engaging-data.com/country-centered-map-projections/ <q>Country Centered Map Projections</q> by Engaging Data]</ref>

=== Engines ===

Jason and Ron split their "debunks" in 3 main categories. In the first engine they are using Stellarium, SunCalc and MoonCalc, all of which use the globe, which they ignores.

[[File:AS_engine1_2.png|600px|link={{filepath:AS_engine1_2.png}}]]

[[File:AS_engine3.png|600px|link={{filepath:AS_engine3.png}}]]

Equatorial mounts only needs one rotational axis, not 2. The wobbling and Earth's orbit are so small that they are within the margin of error of the mount. A flat earth can't have an equatorial mount with just one axis. To no one's surprise they won't show how the mount works on a flat earth.

Dave McKeegan made a video explaining how the mount works.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/1q-fKKPNTLo <q>Equatorial Mounts WOULDN'T WORK on a Flat Earth</q> by Dave McKeegan]</ref>

=== 24h sun ===

Jason and Ron think they predicted the 24h sun by using a model made by Andrew Marsh, which again uses the globe, and think it supports the flat earth, because it's displayed on a flat surface.
<ref>[https://andrewmarsh.com/software/sunpath3d-web/ <q>3D SUN-PATH</q> by Andrew Marsh]</ref>

[[File:Exp_sunpath3d.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Exp_sunpath3d.jpg}}]]

Andrew Marsh also made a model directly using the globe instead of projection it on a flat surface. Both versions use the globe and both predict a 24h sun in the North and the South 6 months apart.<ref>[https://andrewmarsh.com/software/web-earthsun/ <q>EARTH AND SUN</q> by Andrew Marsh]</ref>

[[File:Exp_earthsun.jpg|600px|link={{filepath:Exp_earthsun.jpg}}]]

Ron complains that Will didn't go to the South Pole
<ref>[https://youtu.be/XzqbEp32c-E?t=1722 28:42 Ron complaining about Will not going to the South Pole, <q>SBVR Explains Every One of Duffy’s 12 “Experiments”: While SPACEBALL SHILLS McToon & FTFE Run & Hide</q> by Awake Souls]</ref>
, which is completely irrelevant, as the 24h sun isn't just visible at the South Pole.

[[File:24hsun_awake_souls.png|600px|link={{filepath:24hsun_awake_souls.png}}]]

The globe predicts the observation exactly as Toon showed with his shadow experiment. The SBVR model is literally just using the globe and they think it's a flat earth for some reason.

Jason is lying about the globe not having a model, while being fully aware that a model exists. Even if we assume that he is so stupid to not notice that the sun calculations by Andrew Marsh, that he used, are calculated using the globe, directly next to it was another version directly using the globe, also made by Andrew Marsh (see above). There is no way he isn't aware of that.

<blockquote>
'''Jason:''' Let's let's sort of dive into this being able to predict here because this is something that the the heliocentrists the space ballers can't do because they don't have any models.
</blockquote>
<ref>[https://youtu.be/XzqbEp32c-E?t=1790 29:50 Awake Souls claiming there is no globe model, <q>SBVR Explains Every One of Duffy’s 12 “Experiments”: While SPACEBALL SHILLS McToon & FTFE Run & Hide</q> by Awake Souls]</ref>

They seem to think that the sun moves through gates.

<blockquote>
'''Ron:''' Everyone can witness this and measure it themselves. It rises in the sixth. You can you can create six gates right on one side and then six gates reciprocally on the other side. And you can make a a tick on each side of the gates for each day that the sun rises and sets. And you'll be able to perfectly track the sun. And the book of Enoch completely explained this observation roughly 5,000 years ago, perfectly to the day where it was almost as if Enoch was sat down in front of this program and he was shown this is how the the luminaries uh work.
</blockquote>

=== 24h moon ===

The 24h moon has essentially the same explanation as the 24h sun. They start with asserting that it doesn't work on the globe, which as usual is a lie.
<ref>[https://youtu.be/XzqbEp32c-E?t=2679 44:39 24h moon SBVR, <q>SBVR Explains Every One of Duffy’s 12 “Experiments”: While SPACEBALL SHILLS McToon & FTFE Run & Hide</q> by Awake Souls]</ref>

[[File:24h_moon.png|600px|link={{filepath:24h_moon.png}}]]

=Videos=

MCToon's videos can be found on [https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22MCToon%22 archive.org]

Jeran's video are on [https://t.me/jerants Telegram]

== YouTube ==
[https://www.youtube.com/@The-Final-Experiment The Final Experiment (Will Duffy)]

[https://www.youtube.com/@DaveMcKeegan Dave McKeegan]

[https://www.youtube.com/@MCToon MCToon]

[https://www.youtube.com/@ConspiracyToonz Conspiracy Toonz]

[https://www.youtube.com/@jeranism Jeranism]

[https://www.youtube.com/@markjherman Mark Herman]

[https://www.youtube.com/@Jonathan_Mariande Jonathan Mariande]

[https://www.youtube.com/@Witsit Luggage (Austin Witsit)]

= See Also =
* [[Flerfs treating TFE as a threat]]

* Rational wiki also has a page about [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Final_Experiment The Final Experiment].

* So does [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Experiment_(expedition) Wikipedia]

= References =
<references />

[[Category:Lists]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:49:25Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article text

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had.
[[:Category:Religiflerfs|Religiflerfs]] also use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread it as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This too was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal]] map, which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s but with more accurate geography.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:48:54Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article text

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had.
[[:Category:Religiflerfs|Religiflerfs]] also use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread it as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This too was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal]] map which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map, but with more accurate geography.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:44:12Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article text

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had.
[[:Category:Religiflerfs|Religiflerfs]] also use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread it as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:43:28Z

PeterMarkley: Fix typo

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had.
[[:Category:Religiflerfs|Religiflerfs]] also use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread this as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:43:06Z

PeterMarkley: Fix overuse of semicolon

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had.
[[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] also use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread this as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Category:Flerfs

2025-12-17T04:41:16Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust image

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|right|thumb|The [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason Map]], the world map embraced by almost all flerfs.]]

'''Flerfs''', or '''flat earthers''', are people who believe the earth is flat.

In modern times, these are almost universally adherents of [[Rowbothamism]], which makes them '''sunset deniers.''' It's also a dangerous [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] that ingests, distills, and breeds dishonesty and [[Wikipedia:Bad faith|bad faith]] tactics; with the result that, over other population segments, flerfs disproportionately favor lying, abuse, threats/bullying, harassment, [[:Category:Flerfzis|antisemitism]], and [[:Category:Criminals|breaking the law]].

Many of their [[Wikipedia:Gaslighting|gaslighting]] and [[Wikipedia:DARVO|DARVO]] behaviors documented on this Wiki overwhelm victims or witnesses to the point of moral vertigo. Yet no flat earth content creator ever denounces these or other wickedness, even while they [[Flerf-on-flerf|bicker and compete]] about the rest of their dogmas. As a cult, their pathological hatred of globers and mainstream science is truly their most unifying tenet.

= See Also =
* [[Laws of Flerf]]
* [[:Category:Bad faith showcase]]
* [[:Category:Flerf sociology]]

[[Category:People]]

Category:Flerfs

2025-12-17T04:35:20Z

PeterMarkley: Add Gleason map image

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|right|300px|The [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason Map]], the world map embraced by almost all flerfs.]]

'''Flerfs''', or '''flat earthers''', are people who believe the earth is flat.

In modern times, these are almost universally adherents of [[Rowbothamism]], which makes them '''sunset deniers.''' It's also a dangerous [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] that ingests, distills, and breeds dishonesty and [[Wikipedia:Bad faith|bad faith]] tactics; with the result that, over other population segments, flerfs disproportionately favor lying, abuse, threats/bullying, harassment, [[:Category:Flerfzis|antisemitism]], and [[:Category:Criminals|breaking the law]].

Many of their [[Wikipedia:Gaslighting|gaslighting]] and [[Wikipedia:DARVO|DARVO]] behaviors documented on this Wiki overwhelm victims or witnesses to the point of moral vertigo. Yet no flat earth content creator ever denounces these or other wickedness, even while they [[Flerf-on-flerf|bicker and compete]] about the rest of their dogmas. As a cult, their pathological hatred of globers and mainstream science is truly their most unifying tenet.

= See Also =
* [[Laws of Flerf]]
* [[:Category:Bad faith showcase]]
* [[:Category:Flerf sociology]]

[[Category:People]]

The Final Experiment

2025-12-17T04:23:12Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article text to highlight Gleason map early on

[[File:TFE poster-096dpi.jpg|512px|center]]

'''The Final Experiment''' (or '''TFE''') is an endeavor created by Will Duffy to end the debate by bringing flat earthers and globers together to collaborate on a single experiment with an agreed-upon interpretation.

Description from the [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/faqs website FAQ]:
<blockquote>The Final Experiment is a way to settle the shape of the Earth debate. Both the flat earth side and the globe side agree that whether or not there is a 24-hour sun in Antarctica will confirm if we live on a flat plane or on a globe. A 24-hour sun cannot work on a flat plane in the south. And the sun cannot set on a globe during the southern summer.</blockquote>

They traveled to Antarctica near the December solstice in 2024, to observe the [[Wikipedia:Midnight sun|24-hour sun]] and specifically test the [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason map]] (which was then almost universally espoused by flat earthers). The trip [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/antarctica-bound had] four flat earthers and five globers that went.

Official TFE channels:
* [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/ Website]
* [https://youtube.com/@the-final-experiment YouTube channel]

== Participants vs Antarctica-Bound ==

At the start of TFE, Will chose 24 flat earthers and 24 globers who were invited to '''participate'''. Participants from these 48 invitees would be added to a “big scoreboard.”

However, to make entries on the scoreboard as easy as possible for invitees, '''traveling to Antarctica was not required'''. (Will only planned to offer 2 free trips anyway.)

Entry on the big scoreboard was possible by '''any one of three methods:'''
# Traveling to Antarctica, ''or''
# Interviewing Will Duffy, ''or''
# Suggesting an improvement to the experiment.

=== Antarctica Team ===

These are the people who physically traveled to Antarctica. (Those listed here who are not among the 48 original invitees don’t affect the big scoreboard.)

[[File:TFE Antarctica Team.jpg|thumb|center|TFE Antarctica Team]]

Team Globe:
* Will Duffy (self-funded)
* Dave McKeegan (paid by Will)
* CriticalThink (crowdfunded)
* [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] (crowdfunded)
* Mark Hermon (paid by donor)

Team Flat Earth:
* [[Jeran Campanella]] (paid by Will)
* [[Austin Witsit]] (paid by Will)
* [[Lisbeth|Lisbeth Acosta]] (Golden Ticket winner / crowdfunded)
* Jonathan Mariande

=== Invitees ===

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Flat Earthers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dave Weiss]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Eric Dubay]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Jeran Campanella]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg14-Gc9eUk entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Mark Sargent]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|-
| [[ODD TV|Matt Procella]] || [https://web.archive.org/web/20240421144401/https://www.junctioncityunion.com/photos/tuesday-october-26-booking-photos/collection_36337586-3662-11ec-8569-8fe04f2d6830.html ''currently in prison''] || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dean Odle]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Austin Witsit]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/xl55OQFSyeM entry]
|-
| [[Allegedly Dave|Dave Murphy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Tanner Stewart “Flat Earth Millionaire” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Matt Long || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Taboo Conspiracy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Eddie Bravo || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Santos Bonacci]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Kaleb Davis]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Beyond the imaginary curve]] || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Sean Griffin “Kingdom in Context” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST5UyUqfZVQ entry]
|-
| Ken Heidebrecht “Hanging on His Words” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Sean Hibbeler “Hibbeler Productions” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Robbie Davidson “Celebrate Truth” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Darryle Marble “D. Marble” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Bryce Mitchell “Thug Nasty” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Globebusters || ''no response'' || ||
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Globers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| SciManDan || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://youtu.be/jIAo9bONtQY entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave Farina “Professor Dave Explains” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLHTe_ORjLc entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave McKeegan || '''accepted''' || travel ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Michael Toon “Conspiracy Toonz” || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjPKFQnHm7k entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| The Creaky Blinder || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoW49mkLyw entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Craig McNeill “FTFE” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHOetOvbcJg entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Wolfie6020 || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAz75CVWM8 entry]
|-
| Red’s Rhetoric || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Globey McGlobeface || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.tiktok.com/@globeyofficial/video/7374928864327306542 entry]
|-
| Globemann || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Bob the Science Guy || '''accepted''' || suggestion || [https://youtu.be/xCc4g0jDhP8 entry]
|-
| Mr Sensible || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Professor Stick || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Astrokobi || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Michael Jones “InspiringPhilosophy” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Chuck Nice “Startalk” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mike Winger || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Scott Manley || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mick West || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Dr. Blitz “BlitzPhD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Planarwalk || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/live/ZGOrFL4qgiI entry]
|-
| Danny Faulkner “Answers in Genesis” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Ruslan Karaoglanov “Ruslan KD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| WheresWally || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBF_etF2ISg entry]
|}

= Results =

== Dave McKeegan ==
Dave's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun] on YT. A panorama stitched from frames of this video results in this image:
[[File:Antarctic 24h Sun panorama Dave McKeegan.jpg|512px|center]]

== Data Collected ==
See here for data on this wiki that was collected for TFE.
<categorytree mode="all" hideroot=on>TFE data</categorytree>

= Experimentalizations =
The list of experiments the may or may not be performed

= Sociology =

The Final Experiment was always about exposing [[:Category:Flerf sociology|flerf sociology]], almost more than about earth science. In Will Duffy's original reveal video, he said:<blockquote>Part one of The Final Experiment is to see who from either side is going to change their position now that we are going to actually put it to the test. Now that we are going to actually do this experiment on location in Antarctica, who is going to go back on what they've been saying all along? If they do, that means they really don't believe what they've been saying to their followers.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxEHu83NqNTXWjdrcYGfzcFben3d1Y9EZJ</ref></blockquote>

In [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s interview with Will on June 3, 2024, they discussed this:<ref>https://youtu.be/FXXiFNH9sM4?t=2375</ref><blockquote>'''Peter:''' Is [the lack of participation from flat earthers] disappointing to you?'''Will:''' Yeah, it definitely is. I had more communication with flat earthers prior to my identity being revealed than afterward. So I dunno, I'm still gonna give 'em time. There's still time.'''Peter:''' So they all kinda ghosted you once you outed yourself as the guy behind this?'''Will:''' Pretty much, yeah.'''Peter:''' Wow. I see what you meant about the first part of the experiment, and how we're watching everyone's reactions to the situation develop.'''Will:''' Yeah, a lot of people forget there's something called "[[Wikipedia:Social science|social science]]." So check it out. This is a true experiment in many ways.</blockquote>

Although Will's initial intent for the sociology focused on reactions ''before'' the trip, the reactions ''after'' the trip snowballed into something greater.

The social experiment of TFE is basically an honesty test: if a flat earther (or any person) is honest, they will follow the physical evidence recovered on the TFE trip, and [[Escapees|admit that earth is a globe]]. If [[Laws of Flerf|they are not honest]], then TFE is also a layered tactical move that exposes whatever type of dishonesty they have.

Their various dishonest reactions include:

* Pivoting away from the [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason map]] to a new model that makes even less sense (e.g. a Pac-Man earth with teleportation, nonsensical sun movements, and/or open edges that the oceans would spill over)
* Pretending to pivot away from the Gleason map while still relying on Gleason-centric concepts (e.g. referring to North as the center, saying latitude is measured from Polaris elevation angles, etc.)
* Doubling down on the Gleason map with even more elaborate word salad or sleight of hand (commonly including a disavowal of all sky evidence—except when it serves them, e.g. [[Heffron]]’s so-called “[[Celestial theodolite]]”)
* Claiming that TFE is a hoax.

Most flat earthers inconsistently combine multiple reactions above, while they also [[Flerf-on-flerf|fight each other]] about which reaction is “the right one” held by “[[Wikipedia:No true Scotsman|real flat earthers]].”

Almost always, this includes some variation on the last option: attempting to discredit TFE as a hoax. In doing this, they [[Flerfs treating TFE as a threat|unwittingly admit that it threatens their worldview]].

== Infighting ==

The flat earthers who went to Antarctica have not been safe from the infighting. Flerfs of both great and small notoriety have joined livestreams and told them ''to their faces'' that they are liars participating in a hoax.

Here is a list of those and other examples of TFE-related infighting:

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Post-TFE [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf infighting]]
! Accuser !! Accused !! Date !! Venue !! Links
|-
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 2024 || Oakley’s “Flat Earth Debate” Discord server
|| Bob the Science Guy review:

* [https://youtu.be/aYpcIO9nLcQ Part 1]
* [https://youtu.be/JkvYG3VpglU Part 2]
* [https://youtu.be/iCI8rzi6-tg Part 3]

[https://www.youtube.com/live/tyAPsAdPhtk MCToon review]
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 31, 2024 || Flatzoid's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/HP8h4LTenbs livestream recording]
|-
| [[Steve from England]] || [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] and Witsit || Jan 3, 2025 || TFE's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo4PRhvE_5A livestream recording]
|}

== Hostility to Globers ==

In addition to flerfs cannibalizing their fellows, TFE triggered a marked rise in flerf toxicity, slander, and [[Flerf threats|threats]] toward globers—particularly toward Will Duffy, and also toward [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] after he left flat earth.

Slander toward Will Duffy includes referring to “his true master, Satan”<ref>https://youtu.be/NbDyzBws4XA?t=40</ref> and [[Will Duffy's sermon on deception|the claim that he believes lying is okay]].

[[File:Flerf Threats - HARDHITTINNB83.png|400px]]

[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg]]

= De-converts =

As a cumulative result of TFE and its aftermath, there has been a mass exodus of [[:Category:Ex-flerfs| people leaving the flat earth cult]].

This section moved to [[Escapees]]

= References =

<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:The Final Experiment]]

Gleason map

2025-12-17T04:14:01Z

PeterMarkley: Create redirect

#REDIRECT [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:11:18Z

PeterMarkley: Fix typo

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had; additionally, [[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread this as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> “New Standard Map of the World.” This was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

Rowbothamism

2025-12-17T04:10:22Z

PeterMarkley: Add Gleason map section

“'''Rowbothamism'''” is a term coined by [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]], to help expose the [[Wikipedia:Historical negationism|revisionist history]] of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] and distinguish their [[Wikipedia:Cult|cult]] [[Wikipedia:Denialism|denialism]] from the honest ignorance of people in ancient cultures. It is an alternate term for '''Zetetic Astronomy''' (see [[#Rowbothamist Model|below]]).

Flerfs falsely identify their view with ancient cosmologies. In reality, when their cult began with [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]] in the 1800s, it was completely new and ideologically isolated due to its denial of [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]].

Because of this, flerfs have a collection of cult [[Wikipedia:Dogma|dogmas]] and [[:Category:Bad faith showcase|bad-faith tactics]] that no ancient society had; additionally, [[:Category:Religiflerfs|religiflerfs]] use their own false definition of the term [[Wikipedia:Biblical cosmology|“Biblical cosmology”]] and spread this as [[Wikipedia:Misinformation|misinformation]].

[[File:Rowbothamism venn diagram.png|thumb|center|500px|[[Wikipedia:Venn diagram|Venn diagram]] contrasting Rowbothamism vs. ancient cosmologies]]

= Pronunciation =

Accounts seem to vary (even among UK English speakers) on whether the “TH” in “Rowbotham” is the [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental fricative|dental fricative]] (like in “thin”), or a [[Wikipedia:Voiceless dental and alveolar plosives|“T” sound]] with a silent H.

In [https://www.youtube.com/live/fqIxroKMoT4?t=1h52m14s a livestream discussion] about this, at 2:01:35 Peter Markley and [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] agreed to split the difference by:
* Peter using the “TH” sound like in “thin” and
* Michael using the “T” sound like in “bottom.”

= History of the term =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ History of the term
|-
! Date !! Event !! Link
|-
| Jul 2019 || In his debut flat earth debunking video, Peter Markley explained the concept but did not yet use the term “Rowbothamism.” || [https://youtu.be/GY6zyiJrxQc YouTube clip]
|-
| Dec 2023 || Peter used the term once in a debate with [[Kaleb Davis]]. || [https://youtu.be/jbApHkzOL64 YouTube recording]
|-
| June 2024 || Peter brought [https://petermarkley.com/flatearth significant research] to support the term as a main strategy in his [[Modern-Day Debate|MDD]] debut vs. [[Flatzoid]]. Flatzoid’s illogical response resulted in [https://youtube.com/shorts/Q3yLZjmy-iY a meme]. || [https://www.youtube.com/live/DypTjkfLDY8 YouTube live]
|}

= Ancient cosmologies =

[[File:Ancient flat.png|thumb|center|600px|Depiction of a stereotypical ancient cosmology, showing the sun going underneath at night.]]

[[File:Cosmologies-parsed-v2.png|thumb|right|500px|[[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s research on ancient cosmologies, contrasting them against Rowbothamism.]]

Contrary to Rowbotham's model, ancient cultures believed the sun left the inhabited world at night, usually by going underneath it. To them, daytime and nighttime were universal. No exceptions exist among world cultures whose cosmologies both survive and provide conclusive data.

Some highlights:

* [[Wikipedia:Ancient near eastern cosmology|'''Sumerian cosmology''']] This culture believed there is a tunnel under the earth called the “Road of the Sun.” There's a whole scene in the [[Wikipedia:Epic of Gilgamesh|''Epic of Gilgamesh'']], tablet 9, when Gilgamesh travels along this tunnel to the underworld. 

* [[Wikipedia:Egyptian cosmology|'''Egyptian cosmology''']] The Egyptian sun god [[Wikipedia:Ra|Ra]] travels in a boat through the underworld every night, and is reborn in the east every morning. This nightly journey was central to Egyptian religious practices, and was described in great detail in the [[Wikipedia:Book of Gates|''Book of Gates'']]. 

* [[Wikipedia:Aztec religion|'''Aztec cosmology''']] In Aztec belief, the earth goddess [[Wikipedia:Tlaltecuhtli|Tlaltecuhtli]] swallows the sun every evening and vomits it again in the morning. 

* '''Hebrew cosmology''' The Bible does not give any clues about where the sun goes at night, except the use of “rise” and “set” in Matthew 5:45 and Ephesians 4:26. For more detail most sources, including Michael Heiser, look instead to the [[Wikipedia:Book of Enoch|''Book of Enoch'']]. A 1909 Mormon source<ref>Ralph V. Chamberin, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:White_and_Blue_Vol_XIII_no._11_Dec_24_1909.djvu&page=18 White and Blue Vol XIII no. 11 Dec 24 1909], page 88</ref> summarized the evidence well:<blockquote>It was represented that in the eastern side or the face of the firmament there were six doors or portals through which the sun entered from chambers outside the vault, and that in the western side of the firmament there were also six portals. For thirty days the sun passed through the first portal and at evening, after traversing the sky, passed out through the corresponding opening in the west. At the end of the month the sun entered by the second portal; and so on until the sixth had been reached …</blockquote>

= Rowbothamist Model =

[[File:Rowbotham.png|thumb|200px|Portrait of [[Wikipedia:Samuel Rowbotham|Samuel Rowbotham]]]]

In his 1865 book ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe'', Rowbotham wrote:
<blockquote>Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth's surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective.<ref>Rowbotham, 1865 [https://books.google.com/books?id=oTUDAAAAQAAJ ''Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe''] Section 7 "Cause of 'Sunrise' and 'Sunset'" (page 85)</ref></blockquote>

[[File:Early Flerfspective Diagram.png|center|500px]]

This was the birth of [[flerfspective]]: the butchered mess that flerfs make of [[Wikipedia:linear perspective|linear perspective]] as one of their most defining cult dogmas. To this day, they use it to explain [[Wikipedia:Sunset|sunset]], [[Wikipedia:Hull down|hull down ships]], and a variety of other phenomena.

Rowbotham needed this on his model, which he called “'''Zetetic Astronomy''',” because of [[Wikipedia:Time zone|time zones]]. To make a flat earth “work” in the modern world, Samuel Rowbotham had co-opted the [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant]] world map projection with the North Pole at the center. His sun supposedly traveled in circles overhead around the North Pole.

[[File:Rowbotham map.jpg|center|400px|World map drawn by Rowbotham]]

= Gleason Map =

Later, flat earther and Rowbothamist proselyte Alexander Gleason refined Rowbotham’s map with his patented<ref>US497917A https://patents.google.com/patent/US497917A/en</ref> a “New Standard Map of the World.” This was a co-opted [[Wikipedia:Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] which suitably resembled Rowbotham’s map.

Flat earthers ever since have used this as an icon for their belief system.

[[File:Gleason Map.jpeg|center|400px|The Gleason Map]]

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf lies]]
[[Category:Flerf history]]
[[Category:Glossary pages]]

File:Gleason Map.jpeg

2025-12-17T04:01:52Z

PeterMarkley: Alexander Gleason’s 1892 “New Standard Map of the World,”<ref>https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gleason%27s_new_standard_map_of_the_world_-_on_the_projection_of_J._S._Christopher,_Modern_College,_Blackheath,_England;_scientifically_and_practically_correct;_as_%22it_is.%22_(10143175716).jpg</ref> a co-opted azimuthal equidistant globe projection representing an evolved version of [[Rowbothamism#Rowbothamist_Model|Samuel Rowbotham’s flat ear...

== Summary ==
Alexander Gleason’s 1892 “New Standard Map of the World,”<ref>https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gleason%27s_new_standard_map_of_the_world_-_on_the_projection_of_J._S._Christopher,_Modern_College,_Blackheath,_England;_scientifically_and_practically_correct;_as_%22it_is.%22_(10143175716).jpg</ref> a co-opted [[Wikipedia: Azimuthal equidistant projection|azimuthal equidistant globe projection]] representing an evolved version of [[Rowbothamism#Rowbothamist_Model|Samuel Rowbotham’s flat earth model]].

= References =
<references/>

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T03:53:27Z

PeterMarkley: Add quote

This page documents examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] treating [[The Final Experiment]] as a threat and attempting to discredit it as a hoax. In doing this, they unwittingly admit that the physical evidence collected on the trip, especially the southern 24-hour sun, is a [[Wikipedia:Cognitive dissonance|threat to their worldview]].

Flerfs have repeatedly claimed, or expressed anxieties, that TFE is a “hit-piece.” In response to this, [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] has said:

<blockquote>I mean, how can you have a “hit-piece,” right? The fact that the sun doesn’t set [near the [[Wikipedia:Geographical pole|Pole]], around the [[Wikipedia:Solstice|Solstice]]] … That’s the “hit-piece.”<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/O_CJzkN-ENE?t=35m37s</ref></blockquote>

<blockquote>I didn’t have to stick the camera in [[[Austin Witsit|Witsit]]’s] face, I didn’t have to do anything to mock … None of that is necessary. That’s not the type of “hit-piece” that this is. This ''is'' a hit-piece. One hundred percent, it’s a hit-piece. The hit-piece is that the sun circled for 24 hours a day. That’s the hit-piece.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/2eAqrEpDZ5k?t=37m54s</ref></blockquote>

In other words, to a science denier (like a flerf) '''''reality itself'' is a “hit-piece,”''' and therefore so is anything that forces them to confront reality—such as TFE.

= Examples =
(in progress)

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T03:33:30Z

PeterMarkley: Adjust article structure

This page documents examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] treating [[The Final Experiment]] as a threat and attempting to discredit it as a hoax. In doing this, they unwittingly admit that the physical evidence collected on the trip, especially the southern 24-hour sun, is a [[Wikipedia:Cognitive dissonance|threat to their worldview]].

Flerfs have repeatedly claimed, or expressed anxieties, that TFE is a “hit-piece.” In response to this, [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] has said:

<blockquote>I didn’t have to stick the camera in [[[Austin Witsit|Witsit]]’s] face, I didn’t have to do anything to mock … None of that is necessary. That’s not the type of “hit-piece” that this is. This is a hit-piece. One hundred percent, it’s a hit-piece. The hit-piece is that the sun circled for 24 hours a day. That’s the hit-piece.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/2eAqrEpDZ5k?t=37m54s</ref></blockquote>

In other words, to a science denier (like a flerf) '''''reality itself'' is a “hit-piece,”''' and therefore so is anything that forces them to confront reality—such as TFE.

= Examples =
(in progress)

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T03:31:43Z

PeterMarkley: Add quotation

This page documents examples of [[:Category:Flerfs|flerfs]] treating [[The Final Experiment]] as a threat and attempting to discredit it as a hoax. In doing this, they unwittingly admit that the physical evidence collected on the trip, especially the southern 24-hour sun, is a [[Wikipedia:Cognitive dissonance|threat to their worldview]].

Flerfs have repeatedly claimed, or expressed anxieties, that TFE is a “hit-piece.” In response to this, [[User:MCToon|MCToon]] has said:

<blockquote>I didn’t have to stick the camera in [[[Austin Witsit|Witsit]]’s] face, I didn’t have to do anything to mock … None of that is necessary. That’s not the type of “hit-piece” that this is. This is a hit-piece. One hundred percent, it’s a hit-piece. The hit-piece is that the sun circled for 24 hours a day. That’s the hit-piece.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/live/2eAqrEpDZ5k?t=37m54s</ref></blockquote>

In other words, to a science denier (like a flerf) '''''reality itself'' is a “hit-piece,”''' and therefore so is anything that forces them to confront reality—such as TFE.

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Flerfs treating TFE as a threat

2025-12-17T03:13:37Z

PeterMarkley: Create article

The Final Experiment

2025-12-17T02:51:11Z

PeterMarkley: Add hyperlink

[[File:TFE poster-096dpi.jpg|512px|center]]

'''The Final Experiment''' (or '''TFE''') is an endeavor created by Will Duffy to end the debate by bringing flat earthers and globers together to collaborate on a single experiment with an agreed-upon interpretation.

Description from the [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/faqs website FAQ]:
<blockquote>The Final Experiment is a way to settle the shape of the Earth debate. Both the flat earth side and the globe side agree that whether or not there is a 24-hour sun in Antarctica will confirm if we live on a flat plane or on a globe. A 24-hour sun cannot work on a flat plane in the south. And the sun cannot set on a globe during the southern summer.</blockquote>

They traveled to Antarctica near the December solstice in 2024, to observe the 24-hour sun. The trip [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/antarctica-bound had] four flat earthers and five globers that went.

Official TFE channels:
* [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/ Website]
* [https://youtube.com/@the-final-experiment YouTube channel]

== Participants vs Antarctica-Bound ==

At the start of TFE, Will chose 24 flat earthers and 24 globers who were invited to '''participate'''. Participants from these 48 invitees would be added to a “big scoreboard.”

However, to make entries on the scoreboard as easy as possible for invitees, '''traveling to Antarctica was not required'''. (Will only planned to offer 2 free trips anyway.)

Entry on the big scoreboard was possible by '''any one of three methods:'''
# Traveling to Antarctica, ''or''
# Interviewing Will Duffy, ''or''
# Suggesting an improvement to the experiment.

=== Antarctica Team ===

These are the people who physically traveled to Antarctica. (Those listed here who are not among the 48 original invitees don’t affect the big scoreboard.)

[[File:TFE Antarctica Team.jpg|thumb|center|TFE Antarctica Team]]

Team Globe:
* Will Duffy (self-funded)
* Dave McKeegan (paid by Will)
* CriticalThink (crowdfunded)
* [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] (crowdfunded)
* Mark Hermon (paid by donor)

Team Flat Earth:
* [[Jeran Campanella]] (paid by Will)
* [[Austin Witsit]] (paid by Will)
* [[Lisbeth|Lisbeth Acosta]] (Golden Ticket winner / crowdfunded)
* Jonathan Mariande

=== Invitees ===

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Flat Earthers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dave Weiss]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Eric Dubay]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Jeran Campanella]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg14-Gc9eUk entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Mark Sargent]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|-
| [[ODD TV|Matt Procella]] || [https://web.archive.org/web/20240421144401/https://www.junctioncityunion.com/photos/tuesday-october-26-booking-photos/collection_36337586-3662-11ec-8569-8fe04f2d6830.html ''currently in prison''] || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dean Odle]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Austin Witsit]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/xl55OQFSyeM entry]
|-
| [[Allegedly Dave|Dave Murphy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Tanner Stewart “Flat Earth Millionaire” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Matt Long || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Taboo Conspiracy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Eddie Bravo || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Santos Bonacci]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Kaleb Davis]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Beyond the imaginary curve]] || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Sean Griffin “Kingdom in Context” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST5UyUqfZVQ entry]
|-
| Ken Heidebrecht “Hanging on His Words” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Sean Hibbeler “Hibbeler Productions” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Robbie Davidson “Celebrate Truth” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Darryle Marble “D. Marble” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Bryce Mitchell “Thug Nasty” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Globebusters || ''no response'' || ||
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Globers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| SciManDan || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://youtu.be/jIAo9bONtQY entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave Farina “Professor Dave Explains” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLHTe_ORjLc entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave McKeegan || '''accepted''' || travel ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Michael Toon “Conspiracy Toonz” || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjPKFQnHm7k entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| The Creaky Blinder || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoW49mkLyw entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Craig McNeill “FTFE” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHOetOvbcJg entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Wolfie6020 || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAz75CVWM8 entry]
|-
| Red’s Rhetoric || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Globey McGlobeface || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.tiktok.com/@globeyofficial/video/7374928864327306542 entry]
|-
| Globemann || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Bob the Science Guy || '''accepted''' || suggestion || [https://youtu.be/xCc4g0jDhP8 entry]
|-
| Mr Sensible || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Professor Stick || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Astrokobi || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Michael Jones “InspiringPhilosophy” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Chuck Nice “Startalk” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mike Winger || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Scott Manley || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mick West || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Dr. Blitz “BlitzPhD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Planarwalk || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/live/ZGOrFL4qgiI entry]
|-
| Danny Faulkner “Answers in Genesis” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Ruslan Karaoglanov “Ruslan KD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| WheresWally || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBF_etF2ISg entry]
|}

= Results =

== Dave McKeegan ==
Dave's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun] on YT. A panorama stitched from frames of this video results in this image:
[[File:Antarctic 24h Sun panorama Dave McKeegan.jpg|512px|center]]

== Data Collected ==
See here for data on this wiki that was collected for TFE.
<categorytree mode="all" hideroot=on>TFE data</categorytree>

= Experimentalizations =
The list of experiments the may or may not be performed

= Sociology =

The Final Experiment was always about exposing [[:Category:Flerf sociology|flerf sociology]], almost more than about earth science. In Will Duffy's original reveal video, he said:<blockquote>Part one of The Final Experiment is to see who from either side is going to change their position now that we are going to actually put it to the test. Now that we are going to actually do this experiment on location in Antarctica, who is going to go back on what they've been saying all along? If they do, that means they really don't believe what they've been saying to their followers.<ref>https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxEHu83NqNTXWjdrcYGfzcFben3d1Y9EZJ</ref></blockquote>

In [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s interview with Will on June 3, 2024, they discussed this:<ref>https://youtu.be/FXXiFNH9sM4?t=2375</ref><blockquote>'''Peter:''' Is [the lack of participation from flat earthers] disappointing to you?'''Will:''' Yeah, it definitely is. I had more communication with flat earthers prior to my identity being revealed than afterward. So I dunno, I'm still gonna give 'em time. There's still time.'''Peter:''' So they all kinda ghosted you once you outed yourself as the guy behind this?'''Will:''' Pretty much, yeah.'''Peter:''' Wow. I see what you meant about the first part of the experiment, and how we're watching everyone's reactions to the situation develop.'''Will:''' Yeah, a lot of people forget there's something called "[[Wikipedia:Social science|social science]]." So check it out. This is a true experiment in many ways.</blockquote>

Although Will's initial intent for the sociology focused on reactions ''before'' the trip, the reactions ''after'' the trip snowballed into something greater.

The social experiment of TFE is basically an honesty test: if a flat earther (or any person) is honest, they will follow the physical evidence recovered on the TFE trip, and [[Escapees|admit that earth is a globe]]. If [[Laws of Flerf|they are not honest]], then TFE is also a layered tactical move that exposes whatever type of dishonesty they have.

Their various dishonest reactions include:

* Pivoting away from the [[Rowbothamism|Gleason map]] to a new model that makes even less sense (e.g. a Pac-Man earth with teleportation, nonsensical sun movements, and/or open edges that the oceans would spill over)
* Pretending to pivot away from the Gleason map while still relying on Gleason-centric concepts (e.g. referring to North as the center, saying latitude is measured from Polaris elevation angles, etc.)
* Doubling down on the Gleason map with even more elaborate word salad or sleight of hand (commonly including a disavowal of all sky evidence—except when it serves them, e.g. [[Heffron]]’s so-called “[[Celestial theodolite]]”)
* Claiming that TFE is a hoax.

Most flat earthers inconsistently combine multiple reactions above, while they also [[Flerf-on-flerf|fight each other]] about which reaction is “the right one” held by “[[Wikipedia:No true Scotsman|real flat earthers]].”

Almost always, this includes some variation on the last option: attempting to discredit TFE as a hoax. In doing this, they [[Flerfs treating TFE as a threat|unwittingly admit that it threatens their worldview]].

== Infighting ==

The flat earthers who went to Antarctica have not been safe from the infighting. Flerfs of both great and small notoriety have joined livestreams and told them ''to their faces'' that they are liars participating in a hoax.

Here is a list of those and other examples of TFE-related infighting:

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Post-TFE [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf infighting]]
! Accuser !! Accused !! Date !! Venue !! Links
|-
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 2024 || Oakley’s “Flat Earth Debate” Discord server
|| Bob the Science Guy review:

* [https://youtu.be/aYpcIO9nLcQ Part 1]
* [https://youtu.be/JkvYG3VpglU Part 2]
* [https://youtu.be/iCI8rzi6-tg Part 3]

[https://www.youtube.com/live/tyAPsAdPhtk MCToon review]
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 31, 2024 || Flatzoid's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/HP8h4LTenbs livestream recording]
|-
| [[Steve from England]] || [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] and Witsit || Jan 3, 2025 || TFE's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo4PRhvE_5A livestream recording]
|}

== Hostility to Globers ==

In addition to flerfs cannibalizing their fellows, TFE triggered a marked rise in flerf toxicity, slander, and [[Flerf threats|threats]] toward globers—particularly toward Will Duffy, and also toward [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] after he left flat earth.

Slander toward Will Duffy includes referring to “his true master, Satan”<ref>https://youtu.be/NbDyzBws4XA?t=40</ref> and [[Will Duffy's sermon on deception|the claim that he believes lying is okay]].

[[File:Flerf Threats - HARDHITTINNB83.png|400px]]

[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg]]

= De-converts =

As a cumulative result of TFE and its aftermath, there has been a mass exodus of [[:Category:Ex-flerfs| people leaving the flat earth cult]].

This section moved to [[Escapees]]

= References =

<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:The Final Experiment]]