Flerf Wiki - User contributions [en]

XeiDaMoKaFE

2026-09-07T19:31:33Z

MCToon:

Silly flerf XeiDaMoKaFE trying to defend FLat Earth Dave's leaky app in a youtube comment asked MCToon to find his password based on Dave's leaky app. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indvQ_86rD4&lc=UgxFmVIikcnlGEOfVWd4AaABAg.AZo5mYpdBOOAaTG6CHlkDq

From the post:
"Since you asked:
Your email address in the app: xeidamoka@hotmail.com
Your password in the app: FElemos.6
Your location in the app: 39.6116765, -8.4020489 this is in Tomar, Portugal.
Your birthday in the app: 30 January 1995
You put this as your address in the app: Rua Infante Dom Fernando 24 A. You've got a wireframe decorative wheelbarrow on the step next to your door.

Is your name Miguel Lemos? You really shouldn't use your name in your passwords.
"

File:XeiDaMoKaFE_challenging_MCToon_to_find_his_password_2026-09-07.png

File:XeiDaMoKaFE challenging MCToon to find his password 2026-09-07.png

2026-09-07T19:31:21Z

MCToon:

XeiDaMoKaFE

2026-09-07T19:30:36Z

MCToon:

XeiDaMoKaFE

2026-09-07T19:28:53Z

MCToon: Created page with "Silly flerf XeiDaMoKaFE trying to defend FLat Earth Dave's leaky app in a youtube comment asked MCToon to find his password based on Dave's leaky app. Easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indvQ_86rD4&lc=UgxFmVIikcnlGEOfVWd4AaABAg.AZo5mYpdBOOAaTG6CHlkDq Since you asked: Your email address in the app: xeidamoka@hotmail.com Your password in the app: FElemos.6 Your location in the app: 39.6116765, -8.4020489 this is in Tomar, Portugal. Your birthday in the app: 30 Januar..."

Silly flerf XeiDaMoKaFE trying to defend FLat Earth Dave's leaky app in a youtube comment asked MCToon to find his password based on Dave's leaky app. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indvQ_86rD4&lc=UgxFmVIikcnlGEOfVWd4AaABAg.AZo5mYpdBOOAaTG6CHlkDq

Since you asked:
Your email address in the app: xeidamoka@hotmail.com
Your password in the app: FElemos.6
Your location in the app: 39.6116765, -8.4020489 this is in Tomar, Portugal.
Your birthday in the app: 30 January 1995
You put this as your address in the app: Rua Infante Dom Fernando 24 A. You've got a wireframe decorative wheelbarrow on the step next to your door.

Is your name Miguel Lemos? You really shouldn't use your name in your passwords.

Terret

2026-08-29T20:24:56Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| realName=Anal Bhole (unconfirmed)
| alias=Tret Tarret terret2.0 Little T Robwijn Scumbag Oetker
| image=File:Terret_avatar.jpg
| caption=Artist's impression. Chat-only; the mouth is decorative.
| location=The Armpit of India
| platform=Discord (never on mic)
| papa=[[Nathan Oakley]] [[Quantum Eraser]] [[Roger Ledwell]] [[Mikey Smith]] [[Mushelly]] (current)
| antisemite=not yet confirmed
| religiflerf=Naw
| incel=Only when not fapping to [[Mushelly]]'s haggish voice
| drinksUrine=not yet confirmed
| adoptedBy=[[User:Flerf Whisperer|Flerf Whisperer]]
| teeth=unphotographed
}}

'''Terret''' is a chat-only satellite [[:Category:Flerfs|flerf]]. He does not present a model of the earth. He presents a model of whoever will let him hold the wrench, in order: [[Nathan Oakley]], [[Quantum Eraser]], [[Roger Ledwell]], [[Mikey Smith]], and currently [[Mushelly]] — plus a standing reservation on Mushelly's long streams, talking to himself on multiple accounts.

English ''terret'' is the metal ring on a harness that a leash clips to. The name is doing a lot of work.

He has never been heard on voice. He has never been seen arguing geometry. What he has been seen doing is [[Flerf-on-flerf|fighting other flerfs]], collecting other people's family photos, and posting "CLOSE ENOUGH" memes of people who did not ask to be in them.

== Flerf-on-flerf ==
Terret's entire career is sitting in someone else's chat and treating the host as a papa. When the papa looks away, the satellite starts a war.

=== Arwijn ===
Not on the current papa list, but the origin story. [[Arwijn]] gave him manager-level mod — the highest he had given anyone — and called him "his Indian friend." Terret paid that back by filling Arwijn's chat with NoFap progress reports: streak length, how long he could last, testosterone turning into estrogen, jumping four steps on a staircase. Arwijn had to tell him to stop.

The friendship ended the usual flerf way. Arwijn was in his Owen Benjamin era. Ugly generalities about Indians were brought up. Terret lost it. Arwijn exploded back: stop pulling more crap out of my mouth. Then Terret called someone a "white boy" in that chat, and when the old Local-server owner sided against him, Terret called that man a "dirty Jew." Arwijn banned him on the spot and opened the next show talking about how upset he was that Terret was racist in chat.

A metal ring does not get to lecture the harness.

=== Oakley ===
[[Nathan Oakley]] is the first name on the list for a reason. When a chair opens at Oakley's table, Terret fits. The "argument," such as it is, is Oakley's mantra plus "you don't know math / geometry" on loop. Once: "it's a geoid." Geoids are not flat. Nobody knows what he thought he said.

=== Quantum Eraser ===
[[Quantum Eraser]] is the next wrench. Same satellite job: someone else's dogma, someone else's chat, Terret's socks. If Oakley is the mantra, QE is the adjacent pulpit. Terret does not bring a model. He brings attendance.

=== Ledwell ===
[[Roger Ledwell]] is on the papa list for the same reason everyone else is: a stream existed and Terret needed a host. The wrench changed hands. The satellite did not.

=== Mikey ===
[[Mikey Smith]] got the goat treatment. Terret plays live wingman on Mikey's stream: counting cars ("478 cars have passed Mikey"), a stolen bit of the globber counter culture. He mods. He has talked Mikey into restoring a wrench after it was pulled. He also bans people who donate, which is an innovative way to help a papa's superchat.

[[Mushelly]] calls Mikey a PDF. Terret calls Mikey '''the goat'''. Terret is Mushelly's best friend. The geometry of that triangle is below.

=== Mushelly ===
Current papa. [[Mushelly]] (Holly, Sandy Crater) is the same playbook with a different nameplate — attach to a group, grab a role, feel powerful. He is "always there" on her hours-long streams, cheering orbital-speed one-liners ("big numbers scary") from several of his own accounts at once.

The hypocrisy is the joke that writes itself. Mushelly calls [[Mikey Smith]] a PDF. Terret calls Mikey the goat. Terret is Mushelly's best friend. When that circle is pointed out, her alleged reply is that everyone is a hypocrite. True, perhaps. Rarely this geometric.

=== Originality ===
Someone in The Lolcow made a '''terretwijn''' account. Terret answered with '''Robwijn'''. RogerThat called him Lit'T. He started calling them Little Rob. Max taught him the word ''coprophagia''; Terret now uses it back. [[ICSpin]]'s "ankle biter" comes back at ICSpin. Then he complains that globbers copy ''him''.

Conversations with three of his own socks in one chat are a regular feature. Impersonation of anyone with a voice is the rest of the kit — several socks for Roger That, the same for Charlie Welch.

Permanently banned from Worldwide Debates and Earth Awakenings. The stated reason from the people who had to keep kicking him was not "being a flerf." It was being impossible to have in a server.

== Doxing ==
Public faces get memed. That is the game. Terret's version of the game is hunting families and then acting surprised when the people attached to those families stop being friends with him.

He was close enough to Roger That, during the Arwijn year, to be told a few things about Roger's life. When it blew up, some of that material got recirculated. That is not a debate tactic. That is a filing cabinet.

The Discord side of the same hobby is a dox chain recited as a flex:

[[File:Terret_dox_chain_2026-07-31.webp|400px]]
 
Scumbag Oetker — Bismarck pfp, same wars Terret is known for — in all caps: if you had a double-digit IQ you would know Robwijn doxed Jendude who doxed Lil Robwijn. HarNold's reply ("Coward") could not be delivered. Clyde, at least, has standards.

The accompanying visual aid is the "CLOSE ENOUGH" format: a pixelated private photo next to a public face, captioned as if resemblance were a punchline, then a request to forward it into BTH and "spread this everywhere its fucking hilarious." This wiki will not show that image. It is doxing. Describing the caption is enough; reproducing the private photo is the thing being documented.

When globbers screenshot an empty cubicle, Terret invents the least charitable reading and pushes it as fact (library rented to fake a job, welfare on loop, three screens means unemployed). When the subject is ''his'' filing cabinet of other people's kids, the reading is left as an exercise.

== A well-stocked camera roll ==
Terret's rhetorical kit is calling other people PDF. His camera roll is… adjacent.

He has posted, in [[Mikey Smith]]'s chat, about Roger That's daughters, then denied posting it. The daughters were underage — early teens — at the time. He has made the same kind of comment to a second person, same topic. The most recent specimen was a pixelated Christmas photo of Roger That's son, still a minor when the picture was taken, posted into someone else's Discord. Roger's question, which this wiki will not improve upon: he does not know why Terret has images of minors on his phone.

This page is not going to host those pictures.

A five-year-old has also been in the blast radius, via Terret and [[Mushelly]], because some people do not have a setting between "insult the person on camera" and "insult the child." This wiki insults the person on the page. The children stay off it.

Make of the hobby what you will. Just maybe don't lend him the family Dropbox.

== Flat earth, such as it is ==
He has never presented evidence for a flat earth. Method: ridicule of things he does not understand.

Documented "arguments":

# "You don't know math / geometry." That is the whole kit.
# [[Nathan Oakley]]'s mantra, recited.
# "It's a geoid."
# Freemasons, pedophiles, fake Israel. That is not a shape argument. That is garnish.

If you cannot defend the position, the charitable reading is that you like to fight. The uncharitable reading is the same sentence without the charity.

== Comics ==
A man who will not go on mic now has a comic book. Issue 1: he prints a Dolly Parton passport, flies Delhi to New York in a blonde wig that forgot the mustache, and steals the funeral flowers. The rest of the series lives at '''[[Terret Comics]]'''.

== See also ==
* [[Terret Comics]]
* [[Flerf-on-flerf]]
* [[Nathan Oakley]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Roger Ledwell]]
* [[Mikey Smith]]
* [[Mushelly]]
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[ICSpin]]
* [[Riggs]]

[[Category:Flerfs]]

Terret

2026-08-29T20:22:45Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| realName=
| alias=Tret Tarret terret2.0 Little T Robwijn Scumbag Oetker
| image=File:Terret_avatar.jpg
| caption=Artist's impression. Chat-only; the mouth is decorative.
| location=The Armpit of India
| platform=Discord (never on mic)
| papa=[[Nathan Oakley]] [[Quantum Eraser]] [[Roger Ledwell]] [[Mikey Smith]] [[Mushelly]] (current)
| antisemite=not yet confirmed
| religiflerf=Naw
| incel=Only when not fapping to [[Mushelly]]'s haggish voice
| drinksUrine=not yet confirmed
| adoptedBy=[[User:Flerf Whisperer|Flerf Whisperer]]
| teeth=unphotographed
}}

'''Terret''' is a chat-only satellite [[:Category:Flerfs|flerf]]. He does not present a model of the earth. He presents a model of whoever will let him hold the wrench, in order: [[Nathan Oakley]], [[Quantum Eraser]], [[Roger Ledwell]], [[Mikey Smith]], and currently [[Mushelly]] — plus a standing reservation on Mushelly's long streams, talking to himself on multiple accounts.

English ''terret'' is the metal ring on a harness that a leash clips to. The name is doing a lot of work.

He has never been heard on voice. He has never been seen arguing geometry. What he has been seen doing is [[Flerf-on-flerf|fighting other flerfs]], collecting other people's family photos, and posting "CLOSE ENOUGH" memes of people who did not ask to be in them.

== Flerf-on-flerf ==
Terret's entire career is sitting in someone else's chat and treating the host as a papa. When the papa looks away, the satellite starts a war.

=== Arwijn ===
Not on the current papa list, but the origin story. [[Arwijn]] gave him manager-level mod — the highest he had given anyone — and called him "his Indian friend." Terret paid that back by filling Arwijn's chat with NoFap progress reports: streak length, how long he could last, testosterone turning into estrogen, jumping four steps on a staircase. Arwijn had to tell him to stop.

The friendship ended the usual flerf way. Arwijn was in his Owen Benjamin era. Ugly generalities about Indians were brought up. Terret lost it. Arwijn exploded back: stop pulling more crap out of my mouth. Then Terret called someone a "white boy" in that chat, and when the old Local-server owner sided against him, Terret called that man a "dirty Jew." Arwijn banned him on the spot and opened the next show talking about how upset he was that Terret was racist in chat.

A metal ring does not get to lecture the harness.

=== Oakley ===
[[Nathan Oakley]] is the first name on the list for a reason. When a chair opens at Oakley's table, Terret fits. The "argument," such as it is, is Oakley's mantra plus "you don't know math / geometry" on loop. Once: "it's a geoid." Geoids are not flat. Nobody knows what he thought he said.

=== Quantum Eraser ===
[[Quantum Eraser]] is the next wrench. Same satellite job: someone else's dogma, someone else's chat, Terret's socks. If Oakley is the mantra, QE is the adjacent pulpit. Terret does not bring a model. He brings attendance.

=== Ledwell ===
[[Roger Ledwell]] is on the papa list for the same reason everyone else is: a stream existed and Terret needed a host. The wrench changed hands. The satellite did not.

=== Mikey ===
[[Mikey Smith]] got the goat treatment. Terret plays live wingman on Mikey's stream: counting cars ("478 cars have passed Mikey"), a stolen bit of the globber counter culture. He mods. He has talked Mikey into restoring a wrench after it was pulled. He also bans people who donate, which is an innovative way to help a papa's superchat.

[[Mushelly]] calls Mikey a PDF. Terret calls Mikey '''the goat'''. Terret is Mushelly's best friend. The geometry of that triangle is below.

=== Mushelly ===
Current papa. [[Mushelly]] (Holly, Sandy Crater) is the same playbook with a different nameplate — attach to a group, grab a role, feel powerful. He is "always there" on her hours-long streams, cheering orbital-speed one-liners ("big numbers scary") from several of his own accounts at once.

The hypocrisy is the joke that writes itself. Mushelly calls [[Mikey Smith]] a PDF. Terret calls Mikey the goat. Terret is Mushelly's best friend. When that circle is pointed out, her alleged reply is that everyone is a hypocrite. True, perhaps. Rarely this geometric.

=== Originality ===
Someone in The Lolcow made a '''terretwijn''' account. Terret answered with '''Robwijn'''. RogerThat called him Lit'T. He started calling them Little Rob. Max taught him the word ''coprophagia''; Terret now uses it back. [[ICSpin]]'s "ankle biter" comes back at ICSpin. Then he complains that globbers copy ''him''.

Conversations with three of his own socks in one chat are a regular feature. Impersonation of anyone with a voice is the rest of the kit — several socks for Roger That, the same for Charlie Welch.

Permanently banned from Worldwide Debates and Earth Awakenings. The stated reason from the people who had to keep kicking him was not "being a flerf." It was being impossible to have in a server.

== Doxing ==
Public faces get memed. That is the game. Terret's version of the game is hunting families and then acting surprised when the people attached to those families stop being friends with him.

He was close enough to Roger That, during the Arwijn year, to be told a few things about Roger's life. When it blew up, some of that material got recirculated. That is not a debate tactic. That is a filing cabinet.

The Discord side of the same hobby is a dox chain recited as a flex:

[[File:Terret_dox_chain_2026-07-31.webp|400px]]
 
Scumbag Oetker — Bismarck pfp, same wars Terret is known for — in all caps: if you had a double-digit IQ you would know Robwijn doxed Jendude who doxed Lil Robwijn. HarNold's reply ("Coward") could not be delivered. Clyde, at least, has standards.

The accompanying visual aid is the "CLOSE ENOUGH" format: a pixelated private photo next to a public face, captioned as if resemblance were a punchline, then a request to forward it into BTH and "spread this everywhere its fucking hilarious." This wiki will not show that image. It is doxing. Describing the caption is enough; reproducing the private photo is the thing being documented.

When globbers screenshot an empty cubicle, Terret invents the least charitable reading and pushes it as fact (library rented to fake a job, welfare on loop, three screens means unemployed). When the subject is ''his'' filing cabinet of other people's kids, the reading is left as an exercise.

== A well-stocked camera roll ==
Terret's rhetorical kit is calling other people PDF. His camera roll is… adjacent.

He has posted, in [[Mikey Smith]]'s chat, about Roger That's daughters, then denied posting it. The daughters were underage — early teens — at the time. He has made the same kind of comment to a second person, same topic. The most recent specimen was a pixelated Christmas photo of Roger That's son, still a minor when the picture was taken, posted into someone else's Discord. Roger's question, which this wiki will not improve upon: he does not know why Terret has images of minors on his phone.

This page is not going to host those pictures.

A five-year-old has also been in the blast radius, via Terret and [[Mushelly]], because some people do not have a setting between "insult the person on camera" and "insult the child." This wiki insults the person on the page. The children stay off it.

Make of the hobby what you will. Just maybe don't lend him the family Dropbox.

== Flat earth, such as it is ==
He has never presented evidence for a flat earth. Method: ridicule of things he does not understand.

Documented "arguments":

# "You don't know math / geometry." That is the whole kit.
# [[Nathan Oakley]]'s mantra, recited.
# "It's a geoid."
# Freemasons, pedophiles, fake Israel. That is not a shape argument. That is garnish.

If you cannot defend the position, the charitable reading is that you like to fight. The uncharitable reading is the same sentence without the charity.

== Comics ==
A man who will not go on mic now has a comic book. Issue 1: he prints a Dolly Parton passport, flies Delhi to New York in a blonde wig that forgot the mustache, and steals the funeral flowers. The rest of the series lives at '''[[Terret Comics]]'''.

== See also ==
* [[Terret Comics]]
* [[Flerf-on-flerf]]
* [[Nathan Oakley]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Roger Ledwell]]
* [[Mikey Smith]]
* [[Mushelly]]
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[ICSpin]]
* [[Riggs]]

[[Category:Flerfs]]

Solipsisms

2026-08-29T18:32:23Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| realName =
| alias= Limp Witsit Flerf Durst Solipsisms Soli Temu Witsit Solied Himself Sulky Nathan WitSpit Jr Soil WitSpit Echo WitSpit Shadow Temu Puppet Temu Sooky Sooky La La Soiled Himself Parrot WitSpit Worthless WitShit Wannabe
| image = File:Solipsisms1.webp
| location = US
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/@Solipsisms YouTube] [https://x.com/Solipsisms__ X] [https://www.tiktok.com/@solipsisms_ TikTok]
| papa = [[Austin Witsit]]
| antisemite =
| religiflerf = No
| drinksUrine = never been falsified
}}

'''Solipsisms''' ('''Soli'''), sometimes referred to as '''Soiled Himself''', is a flerf active on TikTok and somewhat active on YouTube.

He is like 7-11. His mouth is always open, but never says anything.

He is a piss-ant of flat earth.

Throws fallacies at his opponent left right and centre, but comes with zero proof for flat earth, and nit picks globe earth. To be fair thats all flerfs have.

Typical Gen Z flerf with no proof for their cult belief, relies on ChatGPT for backup, and spews garbage that insults everyday people. And to top it off, get triggered you dont fall for their shitè when you continually dismiss their crap.

Has to rent a Hotel room for debates, as family does not tolerate this rubbish under their roof. Family and friends are so proudz of you boi. Maybe one day they will let you move up to big boy pantz bro.

Love to say 'falsification is independent of replacemt'. Nice try Worthless WitShit Wannabe.

== Notable Appearances==
*[https://www.youtube.com/live/cbBOT0pWHko?si=7ywKgGwBHb2lzayF debate vs MCToon]
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ApvLdPQQd4 debate vs Dr. Blitz]

=="Debate" with Dr. Blitz==
Solied Himself had arguably the biggest 'Crash and Burns' in flerf history when debating [https://www.youtube.com/@blitzphd Dr. Blitz]. Sucks to be you Soiled Himself.

During the debate with [https://www.youtube.com/@blitzphd DrBlitz] on May 26, 2026, Soiled himself pulled out classic flerf 101 tactics, and went straight to Rule No. 1, [https://www.youtube.com/live/eXvd9O7HRl8?si=sk4HTqhcKy0QyXmf&t=1441 Gotta Lie To Flerf].

You see, what Soiled Himself is trying to do here, is fool Dr Blitz into going straight to page 11, where it says the words "flat earth", and use that as proof the Earth is flat. Dr Blitz is too smart for this, and begins reading the document from the beginning, found [https://evansengsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ben-Evans-Presentation.pdf here], and catches Soiled Himself out spectacularly.

[[File:Ben Evans Solipsisms ref.png|thumb|left|500px|Image from the Reference Soiled used to justify claim that microwaves to not refract]]
<hr style="clear:both;">
Classic example of the First [[Laws_of_Flerf|law of Flerf]] in action.

I mean, this is arguably the biggest and best Smackdown's in living history.

== Rage quit in Debate with Planet Peterson ==
In this excerpt we see Soli demonstrate 3rd [[Laws of Flerf|law of flerf]] where the flunt can quote research they did not do themselves but the earther is only allowed to present evidence that they personally undertook. Soli gets busted on the hypocrisy, wishes hellfire punishment on Peterson and quits the call.

[https://youtube.com/shorts/uD4pPcGC2I8?si=v4wXt1xeSWdo2cZm PP You Tube short]
[[Category:TikTok flerfs]]
[[Category:1st Law of Flerf]]
[[Category:3rd Law of Flerf]]

Skyler Moody

2026-08-27T16:07:43Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| realName = Skyler Moody
| alias = Troubling Tribune
| image = File:Skyler_Moody_inmate.png
| location = Florida, US
| platform = Jail Cell
}}

= Arrest History =

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Arrest History
! Date !! Reason !! Mugshot !! Records !! Notes
|-
| Sep 12, 2021 || Sexual Battery with Threat of Force || [[File:SkylerMoody-Mugshot-2021-09-12.jpg|150px|thumb]] || [https://polkfl.mugshots.zone/moody-skyler-lee-lovelace-mugshot-09-12-2021/ mugshot and arrest details] ||
|-
| Sep 13, 2021 || Unknown || [[File:Skyler_Moody_inmate.png|150px|thumb]] || [https://unicourt.com/case/fl-por-state-of-florida-vs-moody-skyler-lee-lovelace-387830?init_S=csup_ltst STATE OF FLORIDA vs. MOODY SKYLER LEE LOVELACE] ||
|}

Skyler Moody aka Troubling Tribune is a flerf that has recently been released from in prison.

Affidavit: https://mctoon.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/documents-2021cf006790a000xx.pdf

More details:
https://mctoon.net/skyler-moody/

[[File:Skyer_Moody_2026-04-06.png|512px]]

[[Category:Criminals]] [[Category:American flerfs]]

Witsit telemetry

2026-08-12T02:35:29Z

MCToon:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rnbx7jsfggvn73589w3jd/GX010005-8.csv?rlkey=0h1aekrtp48wsrans54esnr6l&dl=0 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wb4w6ym0pduw15uuegci1/GX010005-8.geojson?rlkey=amfl4bhkx6nta941pvnz8agxm&dl=0 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5akgxbfeptitn6t43zt7d/GX010005-8.gpx?rlkey=cpnwdy65gvgtbwq6dr03bwjfl&dl=0 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dmmuxi2qq1nzgic4i7vna/GX010005-8.kml?rlkey=q6c25egdwg2wkgot5m6f0d812&dl=0 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ixmd6s1k4fwv2c6rp45ln/GX010005-8.mgjson?rlkey=jx2p4tbkehpssdq2qmdaict8l&dl=0 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tlb16i9tun4i3bw9d7tib/GX010005-8-1.gpx?rlkey=ydcspbeeiphsiy7p6tc5qko42&dl=0 
 
Austin's super spechul contract he wrote because he's legally adept: 
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7kp30oi4god05wb7lx6fa/20240912-Sponsorship-Agreement-new-final-FINAL-signed-witsit.pdf?rlkey=ejdp325h2hbidiyhxapfuplvq&dl=0

Witsit telemetry

2026-08-12T02:25:59Z

MCToon: Created page with "https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rnbx7jsfggvn73589w3jd/GX010005-8.csv?rlkey=0h1aekrtp48wsrans54esnr6l&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wb4w6ym0pduw15uuegci1/GX010005-8.geojson?rlkey=amfl4bhkx6nta941pvnz8agxm&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5akgxbfeptitn6t43zt7d/GX010005-8.gpx?rlkey=cpnwdy65gvgtbwq6dr03bwjfl&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dmmuxi2qq1nzgic4i7vna/GX010005-8.kml?rlkey=q6c25egdwg2wkgot5m6f0d812&dl=0 https://www.dro..."

The Final Experiment

2026-08-10T04:52:50Z

MCToon: /* Data Collected */

[[File:TFE poster-096dpi.jpg|512px|center]]

'''The Final Experiment''' (or '''TFE''') is an endeavor created by Will Duffy to end the debate by bringing flat earthers and globers together to collaborate on a single experiment with an agreed-upon interpretation.

Description from the [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/faqs website FAQ]:
<blockquote>The Final Experiment is a way to settle the shape of the Earth debate. Both the flat earth side and the globe side agree that whether or not there is a 24-hour sun in Antarctica will confirm if we live on a flat plane or on a globe. A 24-hour sun cannot work on a flat plane in the south. And the sun cannot set on a globe during the southern summer.</blockquote>

They traveled to Antarctica near the December solstice in 2024, to observe the [[Wikipedia:Midnight sun|24-hour sun]] and specifically test the [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason map]] (which was then almost universally espoused by flat earthers). The trip [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/antarctica-bound had] four flat earthers and five globers that went.

Official TFE channels:
* [https://www.the-final-experiment.com/ Website]
* [https://youtube.com/@the-final-experiment YouTube channel]

== Participants vs Antarctica-Bound ==

At the start of TFE, Will chose 24 flat earthers and 24 globers who were invited to '''participate'''. Participants from these 48 invitees would be added to a “big scoreboard.”

However, to make entries on the scoreboard as easy as possible for invitees, '''traveling to Antarctica was not required'''. (Will only planned to offer 2 free trips anyway.)

Entry on the big scoreboard was possible by '''any one of three methods:'''
# Traveling to Antarctica, ''or''
# Interviewing Will Duffy, ''or''
# Suggesting an improvement to the experiment.

=== Antarctica Team ===

These are the people who physically traveled to Antarctica. (Those listed here who are not among the 48 original invitees don’t affect the big scoreboard.)

[[File:TFE Antarctica Team.jpg|thumb|center|TFE Antarctica Team]]

Team Globe:
* Will Duffy (self-funded)
* Dave McKeegan (paid by Will)
* [https://www.youtube.com/@CriticalThink CriticalThink] (crowdfunded)
* [[User:MCToon|Michael Toon]] (crowdfunded)
* Mark Herman (paid by donor)

Team Flat Earth:
* [[Jeran Campanella]] (paid by Will)
* [[Austin Witsit]] (paid by Will)
* [[Lisbeth|Lisbeth Acosta]] (Golden Ticket winner / crowdfunded)
* Jonathan Mariande

=== Invitees ===

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Flat Earthers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dave Weiss]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Eric Dubay]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Jeran Campanella]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg14-Gc9eUk entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Mark Sargent]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|-
| [[ODD TV|Matt Procella]] || [https://web.archive.org/web/20240421144401/https://www.junctioncityunion.com/photos/tuesday-october-26-booking-photos/collection_36337586-3662-11ec-8569-8fe04f2d6830.html ''currently in prison''] || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Dean Odle]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-error-subtle)"
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || '''rejected''' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| [[Austin Witsit]] || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/xl55OQFSyeM entry]
|-
| [[Allegedly Dave|Dave Murphy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Flat Earth Millionaire | Tanner Stewart “Flat Earth Millionaire”]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Matt Long || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Taboo Conspiracy]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Eddie Bravo || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Santos Bonacci]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Kaleb Davis]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Beyond the imaginary curve]] || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Sean Griffin “Kingdom in Context” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST5UyUqfZVQ entry]
|-
| Ken Heidebrecht “Hanging on His Words” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Hibbeler Productions| Sean Hibbeler “Hibbeler Productions”]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[Celebrate Truth | Robbie Davidson “Celebrate Truth”]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| [[D Marble | Darryle Marble “D. Marble”]] || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Bryce Mitchell “Thug Nasty” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Globebusters || ''no response'' || ||
|}

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Globers
|-
! Invitee !! Status !! Method !! Link
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| SciManDan || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://youtu.be/jIAo9bONtQY entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave Farina “Professor Dave Explains” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLHTe_ORjLc entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Dave McKeegan || '''accepted''' || travel ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Michael Toon “Conspiracy Toonz” || '''accepted''' || interview & travel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjPKFQnHm7k entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| The Creaky Blinder || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoW49mkLyw entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Craig McNeill “FTFE” || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHOetOvbcJg entry]
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Wolfie6020 || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAz75CVWM8 entry]
|-
| Red’s Rhetoric || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Globey McGlobeface || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.tiktok.com/@globeyofficial/video/7374928864327306542 entry]
|-
| Globemann || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Bob the Science Guy || '''accepted''' || suggestion || [https://youtu.be/xCc4g0jDhP8 entry]
|-
| Mr Sensible || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Professor Stick || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Astrokobi || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Michael Jones “InspiringPhilosophy” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Chuck Nice “Startalk” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mike Winger || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Scott Manley || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Mick West || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Dr. Blitz “BlitzPhD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| Planarwalk || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/live/ZGOrFL4qgiI entry]
|-
| Danny Faulkner “Answers in Genesis” || ''no response'' || ||
|-
| Ruslan Karaoglanov “Ruslan KD” || ''no response'' || ||
|- style="background-color:var(--background-color-success-subtle)"
| WheresWally || '''accepted''' || interview || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBF_etF2ISg entry]
|}

= Results =

== Dave McKeegan ==
Dave's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0B1OQG3-M Timelapse of the 24 hour Antarctic sun] on YT. A panorama stitched from frames of this video results in this image:
[[File:Antarctic 24h Sun panorama Dave McKeegan.jpg|512px|center]]

== Data Collected ==
GPS Tracking: [https://z6z.co/thefinalexperiment/ https://z6z.co/thefinalexperiment/]

See here for data on this wiki that was collected for TFE.
<categorytree mode="all" hideroot=on>TFE data</categorytree>

= Experimentalizations =
The list of experiments the may or may not be performed

= Sociology =

The Final Experiment was always about exposing [[:Category:Flerf sociology|flerf sociology]], almost more than about earth science. In Will Duffy's original reveal video, he said:<blockquote>Part one of The Final Experiment is to see who from either side is going to change their position now that we are going to actually put it to the test. Now that we are going to actually do this experiment on location in Antarctica, who is going to go back on what they've been saying all along? If they do, that means they really don't believe what they've been saying to their followers.
<ref>[https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxEHu83NqNTXWjdrcYGfzcFben3d1Y9EZJ <q>The Final Experiment - The Man Behind the Experiment (6 of 6)</q> by The Final Experiment]</ref></blockquote>

In [[User:PeterMarkley|Peter Markley]]'s interview with Will on June 3, 2024, they discussed this:
<ref>[https://youtu.be/FXXiFNH9sM4?t=2375 39:35 Will and Peter talking about lack of flat earth participation, <q>Will Duffy Interview</q> by peter Markley]</ref>

<blockquote>'''Peter:''' Is [the lack of participation from flat earthers] disappointing to you?'''Will:''' Yeah, it definitely is. I had more communication with flat earthers prior to my identity being revealed than afterward. So I dunno, I'm still gonna give 'em time. There's still time.'''Peter:''' So they all kinda ghosted you once you outed yourself as the guy behind this?'''Will:''' Pretty much, yeah.'''Peter:''' Wow. I see what you meant about the first part of the experiment, and how we're watching everyone's reactions to the situation develop.'''Will:''' Yeah, a lot of people forget there's something called "[[Wikipedia:Social science|social science]]." So check it out. This is a true experiment in many ways.</blockquote>

Although Will's initial intent for the sociology focused on reactions ''before'' the trip, the reactions ''after'' the trip snowballed into something greater.

The social experiment of TFE is basically an honesty test: if a flat earther (or any person) is honest, they will follow the physical evidence recovered on the TFE trip, and [[Escapees|admit that earth is a globe]]. If [[Laws of Flerf|they are not honest]], then TFE is also a layered tactical move that exposes whatever type of dishonesty they have.

Their various dishonest reactions include:

* Pivoting away from the [[Rowbothamism#Gleason_Map|Gleason map]] to a new model that makes even less sense (e.g. a Pac-Man earth with teleportation, nonsensical sun movements, and/or open edges that the oceans would spill over)
* Pretending to pivot away from the Gleason map while still relying on Gleason-centric concepts (e.g. referring to North as the center, saying latitude is measured from Polaris elevation angles, etc.)
* Doubling down on the Gleason map with even more elaborate word salad or sleight of hand (commonly including a disavowal of all sky evidence—except when it serves them, e.g. [[Heffron]]’s so-called “[[Celestial theodolite]]”)
* Claiming that TFE is a hoax.

Most flat earthers inconsistently combine multiple reactions above, while they also [[Flerf-on-flerf|fight each other]] about which reaction is “the right one” held by “[[Wikipedia:No true Scotsman|real flat earthers]].”

Almost always, this includes some variation on the last option: attempting to discredit TFE as a hoax. In doing this, they [[Flerfs treating TFE as a threat|unwittingly admit that it threatens their worldview]].

== Infighting ==

The flat earthers who went to Antarctica have not been safe from the infighting. Flerfs of both great and small notoriety have joined livestreams and told them ''to their faces'' that they are liars participating in a hoax.

Here is a list of those and other examples of TFE-related infighting:

{| class="wikitable"
|+ Post-TFE [[Flerf-on-flerf|flerf infighting]]
! Accuser !! Accused !! Date !! Venue !! Links
|-
| [[Nathan Oakley]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 2024 || Oakley’s “Flat Earth Debate” Discord server
|| Bob the Science Guy review:

* [https://youtu.be/aYpcIO9nLcQ Part 1]
* [https://youtu.be/JkvYG3VpglU Part 2]
* [https://youtu.be/iCI8rzi6-tg Part 3]

[https://www.youtube.com/live/tyAPsAdPhtk MCToon review]
|-
| [[Flatzoid]] || [[Austin Witsit]] || Dec 31, 2024 || Flatzoid's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/live/HP8h4LTenbs livestream recording]
|-
| [[Steve from England]] || [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] and Witsit || Jan 3, 2025 || TFE's YouTube channel || [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo4PRhvE_5A livestream recording]
|}

== Hostility to Globers ==

In addition to flerfs cannibalizing their fellows, TFE triggered a marked rise in flerf toxicity, slander, and [[Flerf threats|threats]] toward globers—particularly toward Will Duffy, and also toward [[Jeran Campanella|Jeran]] after he left flat earth.

Slander toward Will Duffy includes referring to “his true master, Satan”<ref>[https://youtu.be/NbDyzBws4XA?t=40 0:40 Slander of Will Duffy, <q>Will Duffy Says He Has "Ended Flat Earth" With The Final Experiment!!!</q> by True Christian]</ref> and [[Will Duffy's sermon on deception|the claim that he believes lying is okay]].

[[File:Flerf Threats - HARDHITTINNB83.png|400px]]

[[File:John Munroe flat earth gospel.jpeg]]

= De-converts =

As a cumulative result of TFE and its aftermath, there has been a mass exodus of [[:Category:Ex-flerfs| people leaving the flat earth cult]].

This section moved to [[Escapees]]

= References =

<references/>

[[Category:Flerf sociology]]
[[Category:The Final Experiment]]

Nathan Oakley

2026-08-02T06:13:54Z

MCToon: /* Aliases used in the book */

{{Infobox
| image = File:NathanOakley.jpg
| caption = TFW his daughter is playing instead of sitting still during "Daddy's shouty time"
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/ YouTube]
| papa = [[Eric Dubay]]
| drinksUrine = [https://youtu.be/WIuwGaBaIAk?si=905ogwWvs3J8mVYp Yes]
| realName = Paula Oakley's Ward
| alias = Slappy the Clown Paula's Biggest Mistake Neuticles Nathan Many more...
| location = Paula's Home
| religiflerf = Just enough to grift
| teeth = Ferengi
| adoptedBy=[[User:BuckSodbuster|BuckSodbuster]]
}}

== Known Accounts ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Platform !! Account
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley1980 <code>@NathanOakley1980</code>]
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley80 <code>@NathanOakley80</code>]
|-
| EBay || [https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/niceplant <code>niceplant</code>]
|}

Oakley is without doubt the most Omega Cuck on the globe.

Absolutely, without question, bows to his superior, John Stunja, or Quantum Eraser. He accepts unconditionally that QE is the Master of Flat Earth, and Nathan is but a Grasshopper.

Nathan's hormones elevated and attempted a coup, only to be bitch slapped bigger than Texas. Nathan learnt not to play with grown ups. Following the severe humiliation that followed, he sought to claim total ownership of a book he supposedly emailed, but somehow lost the email and the source document. If you believe that load of shit, 'Welcome to Flat Earth', you are ofiicialy stoopid, you'll fit right in, take a seat. Humiliation is your new best friend.

Nathan's favourite homeage of The Prodigy's 'Smack my bitch up' is 'Smack my kids up'.

His favourite snack is 'Dogs go wacky for smackos'.

Rumor has it he can lick his own balls like all dogs can(and by balls we mean Neuticles). He claims they are salty but helps it with hydration.

Loves that simpleton Woger Wed'not'wel super chatted QE, loves it, I mean he jacked off to it.

Started channel in 2010, showing off lifestyle equipment (audio visual, coffee machines etc) with the name "Audio Paula" named after his now wife. Experimented with various guises, including basically pimping out his wife for views and showing sex toys in the background, which Nathan uses exclusively on himself. If OnlyFans were around then, the Flat Earth might not exist as we know it! Quickly moved onto the Flat Earth Grift, and attempted to get into the [[Mark Sargent]] / Patricia Steere crowd, drinking any amount of his own, undiluted urine as necessary. Quick to temper, and a high opinion of his own intelligence, mostly due to the massive chip on his shoulder that he isn't successful, he has somehow managed to distil all of his arguments down into a simple, undisputable (by people who don't give a crap) argument that sounds right and is easy to repeat. Has a central set of notes and talking points he shares with QE and others, but has regularly slipped up and disclosed this is a grift, he doesn't believe a word he says, just chases the argument down to it's incessant, drawn out conclusion of anyone listening just gives up.

Was good friends with fake minicab driver and crayola solicitor Anthony [[Riley]], who invented / pulled from his arse with no supporting materials Relative Density Equilibrium. A theory that explains why things drop, without explaining why items of different density drop at the same speed in a vacuum, or why objects on the ground experience an acceleration of 9.8m/s per second (or friction for that matter).

Regularly fills panel with education dodgers such as Brian's Logic, who never completed his Junior Cert, and has the same chip on his shoulder as his mates left rural Ireland for the big smoke.

As Paula needs to work to ensure they can keep up with the joneses, Nathan is free to hold daily Daddy Day Care sessions. His temper extends to more than just other adults though, his kids better watch out, or a well timed slap is inevitable. Nathan refuses to check out local men's sheds to develop other hobbies.

Lately, has been watching his empire burn as his friends turn their backs on him due to a Word file he is calling a book being held hostage. He is paying Paula to create a new Doc file, and listen to the benign shit he goes on about day after day while Paula actually works. This will probably end in divorce once school starts.

He does not know what he will do when the grift ends, as he is not popular enough to deflect.

== Report for death threats, violence, and sexual acts ==
Oakley's livestreams and debates frequently include death threats, graphic violence talk, and sexual humiliation demands aimed at opponents. YouTube's [https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/policies/community-guidelines/ Community Guidelines] cover violent threats, harassment, and sexual content — these clips are reportable.

=== How to report ===
# Open the linked video (timestamped to the quote).
# Click the three-dot menu (⋯) under the player → '''Report'''.
# Choose the closest category (e.g. '''Violent or repulsive content''' / '''Harassment or bullying''' / '''Sexual content''') and submit.
# Optionally also report the channel: go to [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley1980 @NathanOakley1980] → About → flag / report user.

=== Documented clips ===
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8kj-B5_Is&t=2076s FED 2516 LIVE How Flat Is Your Ball] (34:33)
** "Yeah, you'd be better off dying of cancer or something, Phil. So, hurry the f**k up and die."
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h48qlfIDxt8&t=452s Flat Earth Debate 611 LIVE Loyal Globeheads] (7:32)
** "I'd much rather chop their head off and insert our anally into whoever asserts it. Red's Rhetoric, I'm talking to you."
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICDAC1KNRnc&t=612s Flat Earth Debate 2024 LIVE Earth Awakenings] (10:12)
** "Geo if I ever see you personally, I'm gonna rip your head off and s**t down your neck."
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhCh0_p779Y&t=3774s Flat Earth Debate 1186 Uncut & After Show] (1:02:54)
** "come here come here get on your knees and suckle on my testicles why aren't you doing it why aren't you on your knees I'm making the demands here right circle on your testicle yeah I demand it therefore you must do it"

== List of aliases ==
Slappy has earned himself many additional aliases (too many to fit in the infobox!). Here is a list of some of them.
* Nathan Jokely
* Golum 'the torn' Scrotum
* No Job Oakley
* 'Lives off donations' Choad Licker
* No Friends Slappy
* No Makeup Clown
* Neil's 'kneel before me' relief
* Michael Berryman's ugly brother
* UK'S Dumbest Beggar
* Nathan 'biggest beggar' Slapper
* Nathan Schmuckley
* Gollum Gobbler
* Meth Mouth Slappy
* Slappy T-Rex Arms

== Burned Bridges ==
Oakley is truly a horrid monster, as evidenced by the string of former panel members that he has turned on and is in constant fights with. In no particular Order:
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Adam Meak-In]]
* [[Broin]]
* [[Flatzoid]]
* [[Bev]]
* [[Elderbear]]
* [[JinCBR1]]

== Likes to Call his Critics Ugly ==
When Nathan can’t address a point, he pivots to appearance—calling critics ugly instead of engaging their arguments. It’s a textbook dodge that says more about his position than his opponents.

He forgets that this is his mouth and it is one of the ugliest things on our globe.

[[File:Oakley_teeth.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Oakley_teeth.jpg}}]]

== Wishing Self-Harm to Others ==
Nathan has repeatedly told opponents to harm themselves during disagreements. This behavior is documented across numerous instances in recorded debates/comments, including direct statements such as this:

[[File:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg|400px|link={{filepath:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg}}]]

== Refusing free trip to Antarctica ==

In 2024 Nathan was invited participate in [[The Final Experiment]]: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-03-25.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-01.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-30.jpeg|200px]]

He was then offered to receive a completely free trip to Antarctica: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-08-25.jpeg|200px]]

 
He even personally responded to Will Duffy, the organizer of The Final Experiment, in a live chat where Will personally invited him to receive the free trip: 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_1.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_2.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_3.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_4.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_5.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_6.webp|300px]] 

Duffy publicly claimed Nathan was invited and turned it down; Nathan spent two years calling that a lie and demanding the emails. Every quote below links to the moment it was spoken.

{| class="wikitable"
! Date !! Show !! Quote (click to play at that moment)
|-
| 2024-05-03 || FED 2097 (Dom Jolly) || [https://youtu.be/IB3dCvjqJoY?t=3303 “I don't want to go to Antarctica. Not in the slightest. But obviously, if someone's invited me along to Antarctica, then fair enough — I haven't received my invite.”] (0:55:03)
|-
| 2024-05-03 || FED 2097 (Dom Jolly) || [https://youtu.be/IB3dCvjqJoY?t=4879 “Yeah, if I'm being invited to Antarctica, I've said many times, it's cold. I'm not a big fan of the cold.”] (1:21:19)
|-
| 2024-09-05 || FED 2171 (Politics) || [https://youtu.be/SOaSm_Dl-dM?t=851 “That's correct, he hasn't contacted me. No, he's made a video.”] (0:14:11)
|-
| 2024-09-19 || Candace Owens Paid By Will Duffy To Feign Interest In TFE || [https://youtu.be/nvAReYMLZ4E?t=3437 “Will Duffy, the lying shyster fraudster, has said the producer's interested in going down, has he? Sorry, where's the interview with the producer, with him laying down 30 grand? Is he on the list? No, it's just Will Duffy the bullshitter, isn't it.”] (0:57:17)
|-
| 2024-09-23 || FED 2181 (Sky Vacuum) || [https://youtu.be/Ec55r3rQ7Oc?t=6426 “So I should invite him on my show for him to invite me to Antarctica.”] (1:47:06)
|-
| 2024-10-04 || FED 2188 || [https://youtu.be/dJNCCfsWj1o?t=10204 “No, there's a GoFundMe for her now. There's no actual golden ticket.”] (2:50:04)
|-
| 2024-11-16 || FED 2152 (McKeegan & Negatorxx) || [https://youtu.be/_gRZ6C9uzQg?t=3712 “In my comments, after I asked Will Duffy, Where's Wally came along and offered me one instead of Will Duffy. Thank you for reminding me. Your name's not Will Duffy. You're not spending 40 grand on other people to go down there, Where's Wally.”] (1:01:52)
|-
| 2025-01-07 || FED 2255 (Guns N Housekeeping) || [https://youtu.be/kq3icSqzV9Y?t=2285 “I've already had the moles on the case that question my integrity when I say I absolutely, without question, have never communicated about a ticket with Duffy — the liar who claimed he invited me, to a load of people.”] (0:38:05)
|-
| 2025-01-13 || FED 2259 (Answers In Genesis & TFE) || [https://youtu.be/jxEiRErx_o4?t=8895 “I'd like to see those emails. Show me the emails where I declined a free ticket, please. Can you show the audience that, you lying scumbag? You made it explicitly clear to an audience that I declined the ticket to Antarctica. Show us those emails where I declined that ticket, please, Duffy.”] (2:28:15)
|-
| 2025-01-17 || FED 2251 (New Years Housekeeping) || [https://youtu.be/BW7YB9Nz-pk?t=3953 “That's the only thing I've ever asked him. Has he offered me a ticket? No. Have I chatted with him about this ticket? No. That's never happened.”] (1:05:53)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6607 “No, Duffy made a video saying I was invited. He didn't actually get in touch with me and invite me.”] (1:50:07)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6635 “Now, I have not been approached by Duffy with an invitation. That is not true. He has not communicated with me. He has not spoken to me and said, would you like to go? He didn't say to me, Nathan, here's a ticket. He didn't do any of those things.”] (1:50:35)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6672 “The only communication I've had with Duffy — he has not invited me to anything, he's not offered me a ticket. The ticket he suggested to his audience with bullshit on videos, that he'd invited me — lies. Wasn't really a ticket, it didn't really exist. So no, Duffy didn't invite me anywhere.”] (1:51:12)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=7822 “When someone like Duffy lies about having invited me and tells his audience that I've been invited, I can take that as an invite because the rest of the world believe a liar that he's actually contacted me. Subsequent to that, I clarify: Will Duffy has never contacted me and communicated with me with an invitation for me to accept or decline.”] (2:10:22)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=8145 “I didn't receive an invite, you stupid man. Duffy did not send me an invite and chat with me about it and get a decline.”] (2:15:45)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=10969 “Why did you turn down an invite from Will Duffy?”] (3:02:49)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=10971 “I didn't turn down an invite from Will Duffy.”] (3:02:51)
|-
| 2025-02-26 || FED 2289 (Nathan Thompson vs The Final Experiment) || [https://youtu.be/L-2hF_KF5sA?t=2167 “You've claimed that I've been offered a ticket to Antarctica. You haven't offered me anything. You're a liar. No such offer has been offered and declined by me. There's been no communication back and forth about any ticket offer, but yet you've published on your website a complete, egregious lie about a ticket I haven't turned down.”] (0:36:07)
|-
| 2025-03-21 || FED 2303 (Creaky & Duffy's Height) || [https://youtu.be/uK9k9MdHAMw?t=3238 “I'll show it when Duffy shows the truth about how I turned down a ticket that he invited me along with.”] (0:53:58)
|-
| 2025-07-11 || FED 2362 (The Golden Ticket) || [https://youtu.be/VHBPKA0zudU?t=464 “Antarctica. No thanks. Not that you invited me. Not that I declined anything. Not that you'll ever see an email exchange between me and Will Duffy. No such email exists. He's been lying about it for quite some time.”] (0:07:44)
|-
| 2025-08-05 || FED 2378 (SciManDan) || [https://youtu.be/OSDQtpyo8jE?t=2697 “Yeah, I could have gone down to Antarctica if they'd have invited me, but Duffy decided not to, and then decided to just lie about it over and over again. I mean, I've said he'll burn in hell unless he actually provides those documentations and email responses that don't exist, where I decline an invitation.”] (0:44:57)
|-
| 2025-09-09 || FED 2362 (Golden Ticket No.2) || [https://youtu.be/WEMsEuwdbGE?t=776 “I don't think it matters about whether or not I was invited. Nah, Duffy's just a liar.”] (0:12:56)
|-
| 2025-09-30 || FED 2375 || [https://youtu.be/cOJ92EQvd_M?t=9334 “I suggest that if Duffy cannot produce the email exchange between he and I, where I deny his invitation, then he should burn in hell.”] (2:35:34)
|-
| 2025-10-01 || FED 2376b || [https://youtu.be/L7xqu4m7Oso?t=8600 “Oh, no, I wasn't told by Duffy anything. He didn't contact me. He just perpetually lies about inviting me somewhere.”] (2:23:20)
|-
| 2025-10-20 || FED 2387 || [https://youtu.be/CKiwMkAbJhc?t=7622 “No, it didn't. He could have gone — there wasn't one. There's been no back and forth between me and Duffy. There's been no decline of an invitation I received. He's never going to show any email exchange between he and I. I've condemned him to hell for lying about it.”] (2:07:02)
|-
| 2025-11-04 || FED 2398 (Jeran & Dave) || [https://youtu.be/dptM0NtJxGY?t=14238 “I mean, it was said by Duffy that I was offered a free trip, and I wasn't. That was a complete lie by a fraud.”] (3:57:18)
|}

== Flerf Mass ==
Nathan's daily show is modeled after a Catholic mass where he has a challenge-response with the panel.

If any acolytes besmirch the Oakley they may be assigned a number of Hail Oakleys as penance. 
[[File:Hail_Oakley.png|800px]]

== That time he admitted the earth is a globe ==
This was a conversation between him and Anthony Riley:

[[File:NathanOakleyAdmitsGlobe.png]]

== Nathan's Response to Appear on "The Drunk Debunk Show" to promote his "book"==
<blockquote>
Dear ugly dweeb cunt thief with a shite YouTube channel.

"I have Oakleys book, want me to send it"

"Yes send it me please"

So, you want to help me feed my kids by asking (not paying for) a book that is yet to be released be sent to you for free from a troll in your chat?? My book isn't out yet you dumb motherfucker shit for brains who believes anything he's told!

I'd love to flush your fuck ugly, thieving dweeb head down the toilet like the kids at your school used to do to you. You look like the type of person that often got beaten up just for being you, and based on your disingenuous message and willingness to steel from me, I can understand why.

Go find a tall building and use yourself to prove gravity with it! You can use the flat earth measurement of altitude from sea level to know how high you are when you do so. This will help prevent the world getting populated with other dumbfuck thieves, who believe everything that are told and are willing to steal from a family man.

If I wanted to talk to a fuck ugly, thieving dweeb cunt, I'd be the one proactively contacting you! You are a dumb, no name twat! "Sold exposure" you are total fucking nobody and completely delusional!

Let me know when you jump so I can continue not giving a fuck about you or what you do as nobody watches.

Feel free to join my live (door is open to cunts like you) show and maybe we'll build some actual rapport, or maybe you'll get your head flushed live for my audience and their appreciation of watching a no name wanker pirate get a metaphorical shit kicking by a real man. If you need a free copy of my book, feel free to beg me for it like you begged the bullies to stop beating you up!

Yours Faithfully

Nathan
</blockquote>

When asked for comment, TDDS considered this a "Maybe" and is still hoping Nathan comes through in the end.

== Slappy knows Mafs ==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sSL8ZP3IjM&t=500s Meters to Kilometers]

Unknown: "Question, you ready, how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Slappy: "I don't know how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Unknown: "What's the correct way" 
Slappy: "You Tell Me" 
Unknown: "The correct ways divide meters by a thousand" 
Slappy: "So if you have a meter and I divide that meter by 1000 you don't think that would give you millimeters" 
Unknown: "Meters into kilometers Nathan" 
Slappy: "You just said you divide meters by thousand to get kilometers so you're saying I divide something that is one meter long by 1,000 and that will come out to a kilometer it sounds like it sounds like lines you are quite literally [.....]. You do not divide meters to come out with kilometers why would you divide a value that is given in meters to come up with something larger" 
Unknown: "Because Nathan because the thing you don't understand is it a ratio. Did you do math in school 
Slappy: "Why would you divide a meter value when trying to come up with a larger value dividing something makes it smaller" 
Unknown: "Oh Dear" 

This incident is the inspiration for one of the [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

== Slappy knows Dimensions ==
[https://youtu.be/8sSL8ZP3IjM?si=UEk6idgXfVyW934q&t=224 Planes are 1D]

== Slappy knows how to Slap ==
[https://youtu.be/Cy8jQ08Ydg4?si=ftpTttUL05-buXXF&t=19 SLAP!!!!!!!]

== Slappy knows Herpes(and finally a different shirt) ==
[[File:Slappy knows Herpes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Slappy knows Herpes.png}}]]

== Slappy knows Phalli, no lie ==
It's no surprise to anybody that Slappy is suppressing his closeted homosexual desires & fantasies.

Here are just some of the fun ways he likes to disguise this.(hold mouse over)

[[File:Nathan Phallic 1.png|200px|Girth and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 2.png|200px|Skinny and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 3.png|200px|What mine is really like]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 4.png|200px|Give it a tickle first]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 5.png|200px|The 'Oh Yeah Big Boy']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 6.png|200px|The 'No Hands give it everything you got]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 8.png|120px|The 'Birdie Num Num']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 7.png|200px|Don't ignore the balls]]

== Slappy knows how to be a Coward, like nobody else ==
As it appears there are just the worst of the worst, the stupidest of the stupid Flerfs left, skimming the bottom of the barrel, only looking for a clip, SourPounder decided they are taking a hiatus from Flat Earth nonsense. Before going on hiatus, they put a challenge to Nathan Oakley to debate McToon for $500. Below is Nathan's response, in true Slappy form.

[[File:Slappy Cowardice.png||He has only been running from McToon for 5 years]]

[[File:Slappy Cowardice Response.png||Slappy has no use for Pepper Grinders, they just don't hit the spot like they used to]]

As of July 30th, 40 days after the debate was offered, it has not been accepted in writing, so has been withdrawn.

== Other Info ==
* Constantly goes [[flerf-on-flerf]] with everyone.
* Shares a Discord server with [[Quantum Eraser]].
* Was [https://youtu.be/Ldx_XV02Oec heard beating his children] while his mic was on.
* Wonders how his balls taste.
* Has personal prove of the dome.
* Unable to convert meters to kilometers <ref>[https://youtu.be/7IFaqezQj44?si=u3eFCFc9S_0KFjGG&t=360 6:00 Nathan can't convert meters into kilometers, <q>#15 Flat earth conspiracy theorist can't do the most basic of maths plus Tarzan appears</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
see [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

* Is a bender when he skates
* Has “no issue with” the [[Wikipedia:Nigger|N-word]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/wLKlhELvbeM?t=1401 23:21 Oakley using the N-word, <q>Flat Earth Debate 2321 LIVE Politics</q> by NathanOakley1980]</ref>
* loves the mute button but finds it hard to do when debating live <ref>[https://youtu.be/cW4lc5bX6Hk?si=0jt0IuD0BdaRZ-sM <q>Oakley without a mute button</q> by Deplorable ilk]</ref>and <ref>[https://youtu.be/2IgEqPojXn4?si=JmXHJ47QBv9hDgVn <q>"Globe Denying" Chat show host put firmly back in his box</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

== Toilet Paper Brand No.2, for No.2's ==
Slappy has advised his upcoming book will be called "Measured Flat: All Roads Lead to Flat Earth"

Every week for some time now, Slappy advises all 5 viewers the book will be realised soon, I am in no rush, it comes out when it comes out, about 2 weeks.

Ferengi has said in [https://www.youtube.com/live/eXreqQqg0cU?si=aAQbdAaehEQ2A1v3&t=2214 FED 2556] he firmly believes the book will be well received, because "It'll be a really good publication", and will ultimately be a source of income. This is welcomed news to "The Biggest Beggar on YT" as he constantly raves on how poor he is, and quickly segues into asking for donations.

During [https://www.youtube.com/live/fY1yx8bYxXc?si=vslFnD1NTciZagFq&t=3019 FED 2561] Nathan advises the book is near completion. He is so overjoyed at the soon to be World changing event(in his simpleton mind at least), he almost cried, but he did cream himself.

July 2nd on Discord, Slappy advised the book's release 'is imminent'.

UPDATE:

July 29, the Toilet Brand No. 2 has officially been released as a Digital Copy. However, in classic flerf betrayal, it has already been Ledwelled.

===Aliases used in the book===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name in book !! Actual name !! Notes
|-
| Fred Buffoon || MCToon ||
|-
| Julian Flipﬂopper || [[Jeran Campanella]] ||
|-
| Simon Merkin || [[Quantum Eraser]] (?) Adam Meakin (?) || Could be either or both
|-
| Antone Subway || [[Antonio Subirats]] ||
|-
| Tommy Cockrun || [[Riley | Anthony Riley]] ||
|-
| Lesley Triplehorn || [[Patricia Steere]] ||
|-
| Diametric Android || [[Divergent Droid]] ||
|-
| Billy Fresco || || Someone who financed Oakley's court case
|-
| Raven Edgar || || female former army technician
|-
| Carlton Astro-Turfson || Neil deGrasse Tyson (?) ||
|-
| Dennis Falcon || Dr. Danny R. Faulkner ||
|-
| Phil Carving || || glober, made a video called "make it stop" or similar
|-
| Dafydd Buoyo || || conspiracy theorist obsessed with maps
|-
| The Last Experiment || [[The Final Experiment]] ||
|-
| Matcho–Poipu || Michio Kaku ||
|-
| It's measured flat || I'm too stupid to measure an angle on a curve ||
|-
| Pseudoscience || The science that contradicts flat earth ||
|-
| Mario Soprano || || conspiracy theorist who think all conspiracies lead to flat earth
|-
| NightyNighty || || videographer from Spain worked with Simulacra
|-
| Simulacra Encode || || videographer from Spain worked with NightyNighty
|-
| GoThereAndScrew || Barbi McGill (?) || produced Song on Nathan's channel, was in a show together with Oakley and Steere
|-
| FlatEarthWrongun || [[Jake The Asshole]] (?) || associated with Art Horizonworld, made t-shirts that had the Luna Lander with the caption “Lunar Lander Or Homeless Persons Shelter”
|-
| Art Horizonworld || Math Powerland (?) || Claimed to be an artist who worked for NASA, had a court battle with Eric Dubay
|-
| anti-ﬂat Earthers || normal people ||
|-
| Rob Noenter || [[Bob Knodel]] ||
|-
| Behind The Bend || Behind the curve ||
|-
| Tammy || Bob Knodel's wife ||
|-
| Jack Smith || ||
|-
| Ben Deeler || Ken Wheeler ||
|-
| Dwayne Cunthingham || ||
|-
| Phil Goyt || ||
|-
| John Coltrane || || (glober?)
|-
| Twyford McGollum || Dave McKeegan ||
|-
| Ernie Duoport || [[Eric Dubay]] ||
|-
| Spherebangers || Globebusters ||
|-
| William Hicks || [[Hibbeler Productions | Sean Hibbeler]] (?) ||
|-
| Mark Wise || [[Dave Weiss]] ||
|-
| Sam Checkers || ||
|-
| Johnny Bravisimo || [[Eddie Bravo]] (?) ||
|-
| Cam Quadruplei || ||
|-
| Orson Begsit || [[Austin Witsit]] ||
|-
| Jemal Dobson || ||
|-
| Matt Major || [[Mark Sargent]] (?) ||
|-
| Spuds Emo || [[Spurskimo]] (?) ||
|-
| Tom Mosman || Tim Osman || Someone who had porn in a video that was shown during one of Oakley's livestreams.
|-
| Usama Bin Pseudonym || ||
|-
| Proof Man || ||
|-
| The Disturbance || Rumpus ||
|-
| Gobbling Dogs || Conspiracy Catz ||
|-
| Jim/Refracted Drop || Refracted Curvature ||
|}

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]
[[Category:Criminals]]
[[Category: British flerfs]]

Gakushi

2026-07-29T05:39:05Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| image = File:Gakushi_face.webp
| caption =
| platform = Discord
| papa = [[Nathan Oakley]]
| drinksUrine =
| realName =
| alias =
| location = Nathan's anus
| religiflerf =
| teeth = "All of them"
| antisemite = Yes
| adoptedBy =
}}

Gakushi loves [[Nathan Oakley]].

== Proof of being a flerf ==
When you ask him if the earth is a globe he doesn't say "yes". Only flerfs answer this way.

== Looks ==
Gakushi models his entire appearance after [[Yerba_Mate_Talks|MxXxD]]. He just doesn't pull it off.

== Official merchandise ==
At last: the long-awaited '''Sneaky Peen Man''' poseable action figure. Fully poseable (more flexible than his arguments), complete with:

* detachable black wig — for when the bald timeline needs a soft reset
* travel makeup palette — because the look requires ''commitment''
* dual magnifying glasses — for scrutinizing every pixel of a Discord screenshot
* collector's flat-earth map disc — azimuthal equidistant, naturally
* one (1) surprise "companion" accessory that raises more questions than the model itself

Comes sealed in blister packaging so you can hang him on a pegboard where he belongs: next to the clearance bin.

[[File:Gakushi_figure.webp|400px|Sneaky Peen Man — poseable action figure. Accessories sold separately from dignity.]]
 

== Pussy ==
Every woman he has ever spoken to has responded "you're a pussy".

[[File:Gakushi_is_a_pussy.png|400px]]

Gakushi

2026-07-29T05:31:21Z

MCToon: /* Pussy */

File:Gakushi is a pussy.png

2026-07-29T05:30:46Z

MCToon:

Gakushi

2026-07-29T05:25:56Z

MCToon:

Nathan Oakley

2026-07-29T04:59:50Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| image = File:NathanOakley.jpg
| caption = TFW his daughter is playing instead of sitting still during "Daddy's shouty time"
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/ YouTube]
| papa = [[Eric Dubay]]
| drinksUrine = [https://youtu.be/WIuwGaBaIAk?si=905ogwWvs3J8mVYp Yes]
| realName = Paula Oakley's Ward
| alias = Slappy the Clown Paula's Biggest Mistake Neuticles Nathan Many more...
| location = Paula's Home
| religiflerf = Just enough to grift
| teeth = Ferengi
| adoptedBy=[[User:BuckSodbuster|BuckSodbuster]]
}}

== Known Accounts ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Platform !! Account
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley1980 <code>@NathanOakley1980</code>]
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley80 <code>@NathanOakley80</code>]
|-
| EBay || [https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/niceplant <code>niceplant</code>]
|}

Oakley is without doubt the most Omega Cuck on the globe.

Absolutely, without question, bows to his superior, John Stunja, or Quantum Eraser. He accepts unconditionally that QE is the Master of Flat Earth, and Nathan is but a Grasshopper.

Nathan's hormones elevated and attempted a coup, only to be bitch slapped bigger than Texas. Nathan learnt not to play with grown ups. Following the severe humiliation that followed, he sought to claim total ownership of a book he supposedly emailed, but somehow lost the email and the source document. If you believe that load of shit, 'Welcome to Flat Earth', you are ofiicialy stoopid, you'll fit right in, take a seat. Humiliation is your new best friend.

Nathan's favourite homeage of The Prodigy's 'Smack my bitch up' is 'Smack my kids up'.

His favourite snack is 'Dogs go wacky for smackos'.

Rumor has it he can lick his own balls like all dogs can(and by balls we mean Neuticles). He claims they are salty but helps it with hydration.

Loves that simpleton Woger Wed'not'wel super chatted QE, loves it, I mean he jacked off to it.

Started channel in 2010, showing off lifestyle equipment (audio visual, coffee machines etc) with the name "Audio Paula" named after his now wife. Experimented with various guises, including basically pimping out his wife for views and showing sex toys in the background, which Nathan uses exclusively on himself. If OnlyFans were around then, the Flat Earth might not exist as we know it! Quickly moved onto the Flat Earth Grift, and attempted to get into the [[Mark Sargent]] / Patricia Steere crowd, drinking any amount of his own, undiluted urine as necessary. Quick to temper, and a high opinion of his own intelligence, mostly due to the massive chip on his shoulder that he isn't successful, he has somehow managed to distil all of his arguments down into a simple, undisputable (by people who don't give a crap) argument that sounds right and is easy to repeat. Has a central set of notes and talking points he shares with QE and others, but has regularly slipped up and disclosed this is a grift, he doesn't believe a word he says, just chases the argument down to it's incessant, drawn out conclusion of anyone listening just gives up.

Was good friends with fake minicab driver and crayola solicitor Anthony [[Riley]], who invented / pulled from his arse with no supporting materials Relative Density Equilibrium. A theory that explains why things drop, without explaining why items of different density drop at the same speed in a vacuum, or why objects on the ground experience an acceleration of 9.8m/s per second (or friction for that matter).

Regularly fills panel with education dodgers such as Brian's Logic, who never completed his Junior Cert, and has the same chip on his shoulder as his mates left rural Ireland for the big smoke.

As Paula needs to work to ensure they can keep up with the joneses, Nathan is free to hold daily Daddy Day Care sessions. His temper extends to more than just other adults though, his kids better watch out, or a well timed slap is inevitable. Nathan refuses to check out local men's sheds to develop other hobbies.

Lately, has been watching his empire burn as his friends turn their backs on him due to a Word file he is calling a book being held hostage. He is paying Paula to create a new Doc file, and listen to the benign shit he goes on about day after day while Paula actually works. This will probably end in divorce once school starts.

He does not know what he will do when the grift ends, as he is not popular enough to deflect.

== List of aliases ==
Slappy has earned himself many additional aliases (too many to fit in the infobox!). Here is a list of some of them.
* Nathan Jokely
* Golum 'the torn' Scrotum
* No Job Oakley
* 'Lives off donations' Choad Licker
* No Friends Slappy
* No Makeup Clown
* Neil's 'kneel before me' relief
* Michael Berryman's ugly brother
* UK'S Dumbest Beggar
* Nathan 'biggest beggar' Slapper
* Nathan Schmuckley
* Gollum Gobbler
* Meth Mouth Slappy
* Slappy T-Rex Arms

== Burned Bridges ==
Oakley is truly a horrid monster, as evidenced by the string of former panel members that he has turned on and is in constant fights with. In no particular Order:
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Adam Meak-In]]
* [[Broin]]
* [[Flatzoid]]
* [[Bev]]
* [[Elderbear]]
* [[JinCBR1]]

== Likes to Call his Critics Ugly ==
When Nathan can’t address a point, he pivots to appearance—calling critics ugly instead of engaging their arguments. It’s a textbook dodge that says more about his position than his opponents.

He forgets that this is his mouth and it is one of the ugliest things on our globe.

[[File:Oakley_teeth.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Oakley_teeth.jpg}}]]

== Wishing Self-Harm to Others ==
Nathan has repeatedly told opponents to harm themselves during disagreements. This behavior is documented across numerous instances in recorded debates/comments, including direct statements such as this:

[[File:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg|400px|link={{filepath:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg}}]]

== Refusing free trip to Antarctica ==

In 2024 Nathan was invited participate in [[The Final Experiment]]: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-03-25.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-01.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-30.jpeg|200px]]

He was then offered to receive a completely free trip to Antarctica: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-08-25.jpeg|200px]]

 
He even personally responded to Will Duffy, the organizer of The Final Experiment, in a live chat where Will personally invited him to receive the free trip: 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_1.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_2.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_3.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_4.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_5.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_6.webp|300px]] 

Duffy publicly claimed Nathan was invited and turned it down; Nathan spent two years calling that a lie and demanding the emails. Every quote below links to the moment it was spoken.

{| class="wikitable"
! Date !! Show !! Quote (click to play at that moment)
|-
| 2024-05-03 || FED 2097 (Dom Jolly) || [https://youtu.be/IB3dCvjqJoY?t=3303 “I don't want to go to Antarctica. Not in the slightest. But obviously, if someone's invited me along to Antarctica, then fair enough — I haven't received my invite.”] (0:55:03)
|-
| 2024-05-03 || FED 2097 (Dom Jolly) || [https://youtu.be/IB3dCvjqJoY?t=4879 “Yeah, if I'm being invited to Antarctica, I've said many times, it's cold. I'm not a big fan of the cold.”] (1:21:19)
|-
| 2024-09-05 || FED 2171 (Politics) || [https://youtu.be/SOaSm_Dl-dM?t=851 “That's correct, he hasn't contacted me. No, he's made a video.”] (0:14:11)
|-
| 2024-09-19 || Candace Owens Paid By Will Duffy To Feign Interest In TFE || [https://youtu.be/nvAReYMLZ4E?t=3437 “Will Duffy, the lying shyster fraudster, has said the producer's interested in going down, has he? Sorry, where's the interview with the producer, with him laying down 30 grand? Is he on the list? No, it's just Will Duffy the bullshitter, isn't it.”] (0:57:17)
|-
| 2024-09-23 || FED 2181 (Sky Vacuum) || [https://youtu.be/Ec55r3rQ7Oc?t=6426 “So I should invite him on my show for him to invite me to Antarctica.”] (1:47:06)
|-
| 2024-10-04 || FED 2188 || [https://youtu.be/dJNCCfsWj1o?t=10204 “No, there's a GoFundMe for her now. There's no actual golden ticket.”] (2:50:04)
|-
| 2024-11-16 || FED 2152 (McKeegan & Negatorxx) || [https://youtu.be/_gRZ6C9uzQg?t=3712 “In my comments, after I asked Will Duffy, Where's Wally came along and offered me one instead of Will Duffy. Thank you for reminding me. Your name's not Will Duffy. You're not spending 40 grand on other people to go down there, Where's Wally.”] (1:01:52)
|-
| 2025-01-07 || FED 2255 (Guns N Housekeeping) || [https://youtu.be/kq3icSqzV9Y?t=2285 “I've already had the moles on the case that question my integrity when I say I absolutely, without question, have never communicated about a ticket with Duffy — the liar who claimed he invited me, to a load of people.”] (0:38:05)
|-
| 2025-01-13 || FED 2259 (Answers In Genesis & TFE) || [https://youtu.be/jxEiRErx_o4?t=8895 “I'd like to see those emails. Show me the emails where I declined a free ticket, please. Can you show the audience that, you lying scumbag? You made it explicitly clear to an audience that I declined the ticket to Antarctica. Show us those emails where I declined that ticket, please, Duffy.”] (2:28:15)
|-
| 2025-01-17 || FED 2251 (New Years Housekeeping) || [https://youtu.be/BW7YB9Nz-pk?t=3953 “That's the only thing I've ever asked him. Has he offered me a ticket? No. Have I chatted with him about this ticket? No. That's never happened.”] (1:05:53)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6607 “No, Duffy made a video saying I was invited. He didn't actually get in touch with me and invite me.”] (1:50:07)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6635 “Now, I have not been approached by Duffy with an invitation. That is not true. He has not communicated with me. He has not spoken to me and said, would you like to go? He didn't say to me, Nathan, here's a ticket. He didn't do any of those things.”] (1:50:35)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=6672 “The only communication I've had with Duffy — he has not invited me to anything, he's not offered me a ticket. The ticket he suggested to his audience with bullshit on videos, that he'd invited me — lies. Wasn't really a ticket, it didn't really exist. So no, Duffy didn't invite me anywhere.”] (1:51:12)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=7822 “When someone like Duffy lies about having invited me and tells his audience that I've been invited, I can take that as an invite because the rest of the world believe a liar that he's actually contacted me. Subsequent to that, I clarify: Will Duffy has never contacted me and communicated with me with an invitation for me to accept or decline.”] (2:10:22)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=8145 “I didn't receive an invite, you stupid man. Duffy did not send me an invite and chat with me about it and get a decline.”] (2:15:45)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=10969 “Why did you turn down an invite from Will Duffy?”] (3:02:49)
|-
| 2025-01-18 || FED 2254 || [https://youtu.be/XIgcP07zP-8?t=10971 “I didn't turn down an invite from Will Duffy.”] (3:02:51)
|-
| 2025-02-26 || FED 2289 (Nathan Thompson vs The Final Experiment) || [https://youtu.be/L-2hF_KF5sA?t=2167 “You've claimed that I've been offered a ticket to Antarctica. You haven't offered me anything. You're a liar. No such offer has been offered and declined by me. There's been no communication back and forth about any ticket offer, but yet you've published on your website a complete, egregious lie about a ticket I haven't turned down.”] (0:36:07)
|-
| 2025-03-21 || FED 2303 (Creaky & Duffy's Height) || [https://youtu.be/uK9k9MdHAMw?t=3238 “I'll show it when Duffy shows the truth about how I turned down a ticket that he invited me along with.”] (0:53:58)
|-
| 2025-07-11 || FED 2362 (The Golden Ticket) || [https://youtu.be/VHBPKA0zudU?t=464 “Antarctica. No thanks. Not that you invited me. Not that I declined anything. Not that you'll ever see an email exchange between me and Will Duffy. No such email exists. He's been lying about it for quite some time.”] (0:07:44)
|-
| 2025-08-05 || FED 2378 (SciManDan) || [https://youtu.be/OSDQtpyo8jE?t=2697 “Yeah, I could have gone down to Antarctica if they'd have invited me, but Duffy decided not to, and then decided to just lie about it over and over again. I mean, I've said he'll burn in hell unless he actually provides those documentations and email responses that don't exist, where I decline an invitation.”] (0:44:57)
|-
| 2025-09-09 || FED 2362 (Golden Ticket No.2) || [https://youtu.be/WEMsEuwdbGE?t=776 “I don't think it matters about whether or not I was invited. Nah, Duffy's just a liar.”] (0:12:56)
|-
| 2025-09-30 || FED 2375 || [https://youtu.be/cOJ92EQvd_M?t=9334 “I suggest that if Duffy cannot produce the email exchange between he and I, where I deny his invitation, then he should burn in hell.”] (2:35:34)
|-
| 2025-10-01 || FED 2376b || [https://youtu.be/L7xqu4m7Oso?t=8600 “Oh, no, I wasn't told by Duffy anything. He didn't contact me. He just perpetually lies about inviting me somewhere.”] (2:23:20)
|-
| 2025-10-20 || FED 2387 || [https://youtu.be/CKiwMkAbJhc?t=7622 “No, it didn't. He could have gone — there wasn't one. There's been no back and forth between me and Duffy. There's been no decline of an invitation I received. He's never going to show any email exchange between he and I. I've condemned him to hell for lying about it.”] (2:07:02)
|-
| 2025-11-04 || FED 2398 (Jeran & Dave) || [https://youtu.be/dptM0NtJxGY?t=14238 “I mean, it was said by Duffy that I was offered a free trip, and I wasn't. That was a complete lie by a fraud.”] (3:57:18)
|}

== Flerf Mass ==
Nathan's daily show is modeled after a Catholic mass where he has a challenge-response with the panel.

If any acolytes besmirch the Oakley they may be assigned a number of Hail Oakleys as penance. 
[[File:Hail_Oakley.png|800px]]

== That time he admitted the earth is a globe ==
This was a conversation between him and Anthony Riley:

[[File:NathanOakleyAdmitsGlobe.png]]

== Nathan's Response to Appear on "The Drunk Debunk Show" to promote his "book"==
<blockquote>
Dear ugly dweeb cunt thief with a shite YouTube channel.

"I have Oakleys book, want me to send it"

"Yes send it me please"

So, you want to help me feed my kids by asking (not paying for) a book that is yet to be released be sent to you for free from a troll in your chat?? My book isn't out yet you dumb motherfucker shit for brains who believes anything he's told!

I'd love to flush your fuck ugly, thieving dweeb head down the toilet like the kids at your school used to do to you. You look like the type of person that often got beaten up just for being you, and based on your disingenuous message and willingness to steel from me, I can understand why.

Go find a tall building and use yourself to prove gravity with it! You can use the flat earth measurement of altitude from sea level to know how high you are when you do so. This will help prevent the world getting populated with other dumbfuck thieves, who believe everything that are told and are willing to steal from a family man.

If I wanted to talk to a fuck ugly, thieving dweeb cunt, I'd be the one proactively contacting you! You are a dumb, no name twat! "Sold exposure" you are total fucking nobody and completely delusional!

Let me know when you jump so I can continue not giving a fuck about you or what you do as nobody watches.

Feel free to join my live (door is open to cunts like you) show and maybe we'll build some actual rapport, or maybe you'll get your head flushed live for my audience and their appreciation of watching a no name wanker pirate get a metaphorical shit kicking by a real man. If you need a free copy of my book, feel free to beg me for it like you begged the bullies to stop beating you up!

Yours Faithfully

Nathan
</blockquote>

When asked for comment, TDDS considered this a "Maybe" and is still hoping Nathan comes through in the end.

== Slappy knows Mafs ==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sSL8ZP3IjM&t=500s Meters to Kilometers]

Unknown: "Question, you ready, how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Slappy: "I don't know how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Unknown: "What's the correct way" 
Slappy: "You Tell Me" 
Unknown: "The correct ways divide meters by a thousand" 
Slappy: "So if you have a meter and I divide that meter by 1000 you don't think that would give you millimeters" 
Unknown: "Meters into kilometers Nathan" 
Slappy: "You just said you divide meters by thousand to get kilometers so you're saying I divide something that is one meter long by 1,000 and that will come out to a kilometer it sounds like it sounds like lines you are quite literally [.....]. You do not divide meters to come out with kilometers why would you divide a value that is given in meters to come up with something larger" 
Unknown: "Because Nathan because the thing you don't understand is it a ratio. Did you do math in school 
Slappy: "Why would you divide a meter value when trying to come up with a larger value dividing something makes it smaller" 
Unknown: "Oh Dear" 

This incident is the inspiration for one of the [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

== Slappy knows Dimensions ==
[https://youtu.be/8sSL8ZP3IjM?si=UEk6idgXfVyW934q&t=224 Planes are 1D]

== Slappy knows how to Slap ==
[https://youtu.be/Cy8jQ08Ydg4?si=ftpTttUL05-buXXF&t=19 SLAP!!!!!!!]

== Slappy knows Herpes(and finally a different shirt) ==
[[File:Slappy knows Herpes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Slappy knows Herpes.png}}]]

== Slappy knows Phalli, no lie ==
It's no surprise to anybody that Slappy is suppressing his closeted homosexual desires & fantasies.

Here are just some of the fun ways he likes to disguise this.(hold mouse over)

[[File:Nathan Phallic 1.png|200px|Girth and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 2.png|200px|Skinny and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 3.png|200px|What mine is really like]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 4.png|200px|Give it a tickle first]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 5.png|200px|The 'Oh Yeah Big Boy']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 6.png|200px|The 'No Hands give it everything you got]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 8.png|120px|The 'Birdie Num Num']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 7.png|200px|Don't ignore the balls]]

== Slappy knows how to be a Coward, like nobody else ==
As it appears there are just the worst of the worst, the stupidest of the stupid Flerfs left, skimming the bottom of the barrel, only looking for a clip, SourPounder decided they are taking a hiatus from Flat Earth nonsense. Before going on hiatus, they put a challenge to Nathan Oakley to debate McToon for $500. Below is Nathan's response, in true Slappy form.

[[File:Slappy Cowardice.png||He has only been running from McToon for 5 years]]

[[File:Slappy Cowardice Response.png||Slappy has no use for Pepper Grinders, they just don't hit the spot like they used to]]

== Other Info ==
* Constantly goes [[flerf-on-flerf]] with everyone.
* Shares a Discord server with [[Quantum Eraser]].
* Was [https://youtu.be/Ldx_XV02Oec heard beating his children] while his mic was on.
* Wonders how his balls taste.
* Has personal prove of the dome.
* Unable to convert meters to kilometers <ref>[https://youtu.be/7IFaqezQj44?si=u3eFCFc9S_0KFjGG&t=360 6:00 Nathan can't convert meters into kilometers, <q>#15 Flat earth conspiracy theorist can't do the most basic of maths plus Tarzan appears</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
see [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

* Is a bender when he skates
* Has “no issue with” the [[Wikipedia:Nigger|N-word]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/wLKlhELvbeM?t=1401 23:21 Oakley using the N-word, <q>Flat Earth Debate 2321 LIVE Politics</q> by NathanOakley1980]</ref>
* loves the mute button but finds it hard to do when debating live <ref>[https://youtu.be/cW4lc5bX6Hk?si=0jt0IuD0BdaRZ-sM <q>Oakley without a mute button</q> by Deplorable ilk]</ref>and <ref>[https://youtu.be/2IgEqPojXn4?si=JmXHJ47QBv9hDgVn <q>"Globe Denying" Chat show host put firmly back in his box</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

== Toilet Paper Brand No.2, for No.2's ==
Slappy has advised his upcoming book will be called "All Roads Lead to Flat Earth"

Every week for some time now, Slappy advises all 5 viewers the book will be realised soon, I am in no rush, it comes out when it comes out, about 2 weeks.

Ferengi has said in [https://www.youtube.com/live/eXreqQqg0cU?si=aAQbdAaehEQ2A1v3&t=2214 FED 2556] he firmly believes the book will be well received, because "It'll be a really good publication", and will ultimately be a source of income. This is welcomed news to "The Biggest Beggar on YT" as he constantly raves on how poor he is, and quickly segues into asking for donations.

During [https://www.youtube.com/live/fY1yx8bYxXc?si=vslFnD1NTciZagFq&t=3019 FED 2561] Nathan advises the book is near completion. He is so overjoyed at the soon to be World changing event(in his simpleton mind at least), he almost cried, but he did cream himself.

July 2nd on Discord, Slappy advised the book's release 'is imminent'.

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]
[[Category:Criminals]]
[[Category: British flerfs]]

Gakushi

2026-07-29T04:57:43Z

MCToon:

Gakushi

2026-07-29T04:55:49Z

MCToon:

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-07-22T14:12:27Z

MCToon:

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || The "a field" also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the aether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Alan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== Space Audits (Alan) and Franco Ligabue sources ==

In the debate, [[Piezo]] said the equations and Franco's presentation are on Alan's website — the site is [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits].

=== Alan's Space Audits site ===

* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits] — main Obsidian Publish site
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/2025_Ligabue_Airy_Relativity Airy's Experiment and Relativity (Ligabue 2025)] — slide-by-slide breakdown of Franco Ligabue's 14-slide presentation on stellar aberration and Airy's water telescope (<code>airy_relativity-1.pdf</code>, 2025). This is the material Piezo described as Franco's "seven or eight page PowerPoint."
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/1871_Airy_Supposed_Alteration_Aberration Airy 1871 — On a supposed alteration in aberration] — Alan's annotated version of George Airy's original paper, with links to related historical sources and to the Ligabue presentation.

Alan's site also references a planned '''[https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Franco 7-part "Response to Franco"]''' rebuttal and a null-hypothesis page on aberration in air vs. water; those pages are linked from the Airy notes but were '''not published''' (404) as of June 2026.

'''Arcseconds in the Ligabue slides''' (for cross-checking Piezo's 15″ / 20″ / 28″ challenge): vacuum aberration '''β ≈ 20″'''; water angle in the telescope frame '''θ₂ = −β/n ≈ −15″''' (plane-wave / Franco's model); wave-packet angle in the Sun frame '''θ′₂ ≈ 12″'''. Ligabue argues the observable Airy measured remains the vacuum angle '''β''', not the internal water angle.

=== Franco Ligabue — public profiles ===

'''Franco Ligabue''' is an associate professor of experimental physics at the [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue Scuola Normale Superiore] (Pisa, Italy), a long-time [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 CERN collaborator] (ALEPH at LEP; CMS at the LHC), matching Piezo's description of "Franco the CERN physicist."

* [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (English)
* [https://www.sns.it/it/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (Italian)
* [https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1549-7107 ORCID: 0000-0002-1549-7107]
* [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 INSPIRE-HEP author record] (F.Ligabue.1; CMS, ALEPH)
* [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CACAGhYAAAAJ Google Scholar profile]
* [https://fitforthem.unipa.it/author:0000000000037498 University of Palermo publication index] (ORCID-linked)
* [https://vanlett.com/ilbue63 Vanlett profile] (@ilbue63)
* [https://www.linkedin.com/in/franco-ligabue-53615352 LinkedIn profile]

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

== Misc links ==
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuH7ZZnsKFk

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ztxCRJBzytxn6jICCrBjRUU67HcBrKAw_xMz9tPLZGw/edit?gid=0#gid=0

https://github.com/AlanSpaceAudits/airy_sim

https://alanspaceaudits.github.io/airy_sim/airy_prezzie/airy.html&v=iuH7ZZnsKFk

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

QoP

2026-07-20T23:31:30Z

MCToon: /* Rizz */

{{Infobox
| realName=
| alias=Kee Ko Pip Quey Q-tip Alpha Virgin Kee Ko Muppet Wingnut WitShit TEMU WitShit
| image=File:qop-dino.png
| platform=[https://www.youtube.com/@qiqopip YouTube] Discord
| papa = Himself
| religiflerf = Naw
| drinksUrine=From his baseball caps
| adoptedBy=
| teeth=4 less than usual
}}

Original description:
<blockquote>
Kee Ko Pip the "pipsqueak", is a whinny ignorant little gen-alpha virgin bitch, but Jack Fetter still loves him, he really does.

No, really, Jack does. While it might appear Jack is always razzing him, he's just trying to get him ready for the big world out there, by putting some hair on his peaches. I mean look, he has the worlds scrawniest arms. It can be a scary world out there, and Jack knows he is not ready for big boy pants, and wont be for some time.
</blockquote>

QOP doesn't like this description so he personally wrote this response. No cap.
<blockquote>
bruhhhhhh 😭💀 
Jack Fetter what the actual sigma is this cap?? You really out here calling me a whinny ignorant little gen-alpha virgin bitch??? First of all, it's whiny with a Y, you can't even spell right and you're trying to mog me while rocking long sleeves like a whole arm-hiding NPC?? Not very big boy pants of you fr fr. At least I pull up in sleeveless shirts flexing the gains, unlike you staying covered up like a scaredy cat with negative aura.
I'm not whiny, you're just built like a negative rizz goblin with zero aura and every time I speak facts you start tweaking like it's Ohio at 3am on god. Ignorant?? ME?? Bro I was literally mewing and bussin on Duolingo streaks while you were still stuck in 2023 delulu vibes. Gen-alpha? Yeah no duh I'm the final boss of Gen Alpha, the skibidi sigma of your nightmares, but that don't make me a bitch it makes me the MAIN CHARACTER with max aura. 
And the virgin part?? 😭😭😭 Jack you are so pressed and cooked, you're projecting harder than a cinema in IMAX. My peaches got more hair than your whole bloodline and I flex them in sleeveless fits while you stay covered up like a twig-arm goblin. Stop lying on my name like that. I'm not "not far from big boy pants" — I'm already in the big boy pants AND sleeveless shirt combo, I'm in my big boy ERA. You're just mad cuz I mogged you in the group chat last week and you had to go silent like a glitchy NPC. 
You swear you "love me" but it's all "just trying to get me ready for the big world"?? Bro if this is love then I'm finna need a restraining order and a therapy arc. Stop fanum taxing my aura with your weak "razzing" — it's not even funny it's just mid. Every time you poke fun it's giving "old head trying to stay relevant" vibes and it's NOT SLAYING. 
Leave me alone Jack Fetter I'm literally just a sigma little meow meow trying to vibe in my sleeveless glory and you're out here writing whole paragraphs about my peaches like a certified hater who can't even show arm. Go touch grass, go level up your own rizz and maybe buy a tank top. I'm thriving, I'm eating good, I'm in my bag with max aura, and your description is straight CAP. 
No really, it's cap. The biggest cap in the game. Periodt. 🧢🧢🧢
</blockquote>

So, strike the first description from the record.

Thinks "qiqopip" is a Palindrome.

Is the self proclaimed Worlds very very expert in oil. His favourite, Extra Virgin olive oil.

Bitched about being muted and kicked on Discord, so created its own server and now does that very same thing. Hypocritical much?
He is so unimpressed that people don't put him on a pedestal, as some sort of god like figure, throws a fit, deletes he server, only to start it up again.

Is so desperate for attention, tries really hard to come across as an Alpha, flexes, and without fail, shows his Omega status.
Is so dumb, he tags behind Sancho Panza.

Claims to be the one responsible for WitSPiT going into hiding. But WitSpiT is back, so go figure.

Was touted as the "New Breed of Flerfs" by sincleanserr, but when debating MCToon, sincleanserr called him a [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?t=470&si=zfdTf4S1UQc2duif pus-e] in the discord chat, then the realization he might be [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=DjEWOFM_Er_Vzn_R&t=2136 stupid], then accepting he is [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=JsaphToFLLTnYarV&t=2209 stupid], [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=OYSqzT93LVLSYUIS&t=2257 stands] by him one more time, offers some [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=JTfUChKEI-kWT1MT&t=2461 encouragement], and finally sincleanserr accepts the [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=0PAVAi3kV0gss4V1&t=2608 ship is sinking] for such poor debating ability and knowledge. In classic flerf fashion, turns on him, and trolls Quey for being such a [https://www.youtube.com/live/1FyQf-Ssa4k?si=4QiklQieQzzSUY6W&t=5025 stooge].

== WitSpit Smackdown ==
[https://www.youtube.com/live/1XKgDmP9fWk?si=ad66up3EB_U7s3Hd&t=385 But Whyyyyyyy]
 
"Dude, you are an Artist". Shut up Wesley...
 
 
This is some of the best AI work created to date, and could not have been used on the more deserving Scumbag. Credit where credit is due, Well done QoP(or Qiqopip, or whatever the f**k you call yourself).
 
 
Will you be like Prince and change your name every couple of years?
 
 
WitSpit being a spineless coward, tried to get access to perosnal message sent between QoP and his ex(without her knowledge), so he could persue legal proceeding against her, as stated by QoP.

= Rizz =
All Rizz related fax he be spittin 

=== Rave Gloves ===
QOP owns Rave Gloves.

=== Sleeves ===
Too cool for sleeves, so Mommy cuts them off, as he doesn't know how to use scissors

=== STDs as Proof of all the Action He Gets ===
As "proof" that he's not a virgin he claims to have plenty of [https://www.youtube.com/live/uAH5kJgUXXo?si=neOYyJqIPtmM_Wfb&t=3447 STD's](link has been removed, if somebody remembers the video could you update please). A great way to scare off any people that could terminate his virgin status.

=== Chatting Up Ky ===
Since QOP takes credit for running WitSpit off the internet he is now courting WitSpit's former partner, Ky.

[[File:QOP_hitting_on_Ky_and_Ky_trashing_Witspit_2026-04_a.webp|400px]] 
[[File:QOP_hitting_on_Ky_and_Ky_trashing_Witspit_2026-04_b.webp|400px]] 

Well, '''trying''' to court.

= Boring non-Rizz Related Stuff =

== Employment ==
[[File:QOP_Job_Situation.png]]

== Max Cap Flex ==
I hope it is not windy outside, I will be blown away by my Wingnuts. 
"Rapture, please take me..NOWWWW" 
[[File:Kee Ko Pip Wingnuts.png]]

Kee Ko The Muppet already knows he is about to be humiliated by Ammon.
[[File:Kee Ko Pip knows humilitation is a coming.png]]

== Meltdown and Server Deletion (2026-04-18 → 2026-04-19) ==

Over roughly 30 hours, QoP staged a full public meltdown in his "Anti-Truther League" Discord server — complaining that members failed to promote his content, insulting named members individually, pre-announcing then completing a server deletion, briefly reopening it, and finally deleting it for good the next afternoon.

=== Lead-up (2026-04-16 → 2026-04-17) ===
* '''2026-04-16 06:37''' (''#quaps-youtube-links'') — Posts a self-congratulatory meme: ''"That face when qop mogs you."''
* '''2026-04-16 21:53''' (''#quaps-server-announcements'') — Announces Ep. 25 of "Anti-Truther League" ft. MCToon: ''"we are live bitches / plz share the youtube stream / we do not get paid by the government to do this like geo and [[Riggs]] do."''
* '''2026-04-17 22:41''' (''#quaps-read-only-text'') — ''"women being christian makes more sense cuz they are submissive easily persuaded humans / but men waiting for another man to come save them is the gayest thing in the world."''

=== The meltdown (2026-04-18) ===

[[File:QoP_meltdown_announcements_past_streams_2026-04-18.png|thumb|Past-streams post in the announcements channel, "resulting in the server u guys like being deleted"]]

* '''11:35''' — ''"here are all the past streams u guys didnt share resulting in the server u guys like being deleted."''
* '''11:36''' — ''"here are all the vids i made that u guys wouldnt even share on other text chats."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_youtube_links_cope_memes_2026-04-18.png|thumb|QoP-mogs-you meme alongside the vids post]]

* '''11:47''' — ''"ur not a truther if ur a christian, ur admittedly religious and that is objectively illogical."''
* '''11:55''' — extended rant equating christians with "lefties" and comparing religious belief to fearing Santa; claims to have been ''"hit by an 18 wheeler"'' and survived, and to have ''"met god."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_christians_miracles_rant_2026-04-18.png|thumb|Christians / 18-wheeler / "met god" rant]]

* '''11:57''' — ''"im prob gonna delete this server / u guys r holding me back ... all of u r religious in some way and close minded to changing."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_read_only_text_prob_gonna_delete_2026-04-18.png|thumb|"Im prob gonna delete this server"]]

* '''12:03''' — ''"ive had miracles done to me many times ... because im closer to the next dimension then all of u ... if u want to vc w me u can pay me lol."''
* '''12:05''' — ''"@everyone dont dm me why did i delete the server / or i miss ur vc all these other vcs r boring / u guys failed at helping me out."'' Server is deleted, then shortly after reappears.

[[File:QoP_meltdown_youtube_links_server_deleted_2026-04-18.png|thumb|Cross-posted deletion notice in #quaps-youtube-links]]

* '''12:25''' — ''"here come all the dms / ... witsits audience pays for all his bills and all i asked u guys was to promote my videos ... u guys r some useless eaters ... being king of discord is my lamest accomplishment."'' Signs off with ''"enjoy [[Riggs]] and geo, torah pure rigor gallatrax."''
* '''12:33''' — names-and-insults pass (paraphrased verbatim): ''"@McGoons Daddy has downs / @MOD KITTY has low iq from being malnutritioned / @unknown-user is senile / @MAXXXY PADS may have been neutered / @TakingBackEden FE that ones too easy."'' Concludes ''"i will be hoarding my wisdom from now on ... god is clearly telling me my job here is not to help others lol."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_useless_eaters_member_insults_2026-04-18.png|thumb|"Useless eaters" message and member-by-member insults]]

* '''Earlier same day''' — separately: ''"i spent hours last night explaining to @MOD KITTY all the contradictions in the christian world view and his steelman at the end was 'u just said nuh uh' lol,"'' followed by ''"beings that can be tricked by such lies deserve to be tricked by such lies, just like a fish deserves to get eaten after biting a hook."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_mod_kitty_contradictions_rant_2026-04-18.png|thumb|Mod Kitty contradictions rant]]

=== Final trigger and permanent deletion (2026-04-19) ===

* '''08:04''' — pre-deletion rant mocking community members for expecting heaven ''"w some jewish guys"''; ''"their heaven is to be with a man forever."''

[[File:QoP_meltdown_women_submissive_heaven_rant_2026-04-18_19.png|thumb|Final pre-deletion rant]]

* '''~16:36''' — Community member '''Wesley''' observes QoP alone in the server's VIP voice channel (5:10 runtime, muted, zero other participants). QoP is DM'd a screenshot of the empty VC alongside the "Milhouse alone at the playground" meme.
* '''Minutes later''' — apparently triggered by the DM, QoP permanently deletes the Anti-Truther League Discord server.

Nathan Oakley

2026-07-20T20:41:45Z

MCToon: /* Refusing free trip to Antarctica */

{{Infobox
| image = File:NathanOakley.jpg
| caption = TFW his daughter is playing instead of sitting still during "Daddy's shouty time"
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/ YouTube]
| papa = [[Eric Dubay]]
| drinksUrine = Yes
| realName = Paula Oakley's Ward
| alias = Slappy the Clown Paula's Biggest Mistake Neuticles Nathan Many more...
| location = Paula's Home
| religiflerf = Just enough to grift
| teeth = Ferengi
| adoptedBy=[[User:BuckSodbuster|BuckSodbuster]]
}}

== Known Accounts ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Platform !! Account
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley1980 <code>@NathanOakley1980</code>]
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley80 <code>@NathanOakley80</code>]
|-
| EBay || [https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/niceplant <code>niceplant</code>]
|}

Oakley is without doubt the most Omega Cuck on the globe.

Absolutely, without question, bows to his superior, John Stunja, or Quantum Eraser. He accepts unconditionally that QE is the Master of Flat Earth, and Nathan is but a Grasshopper.

Nathan's hormones elevated and attempted a coup, only to be bitch slapped bigger than Texas. Nathan learnt not to play with grown ups. Following the severe humiliation that followed, he sought to claim total ownership of a book he supposedly emailed, but somehow lost the email and the source document. If you believe that load of shit, 'Welcome to Flat Earth', you are ofiicialy stoopid, you'll fit right in, take a seat. Humiliation is your new best friend.

Nathan's favourite homeage of The Prodigy's 'Smack my bitch up' is 'Smack my kids up'.

His favourite snack is 'Dogs go wacky for smackos'.

Rumor has it he can lick his own balls like all dogs can(and by balls we mean Neuticles). He claims they are salty but helps it with hydration.

Loves that simpleton Woger Wed'not'wel super chatted QE, loves it, I mean he jacked off to it.

Started channel in 2010, showing off lifestyle equipment (audio visual, coffee machines etc) with the name "Audio Paula" named after his now wife. Experimented with various guises, including basically pimping out his wife for views and showing sex toys in the background, which Nathan uses exclusively on himself. If OnlyFans were around then, the Flat Earth might not exist as we know it! Quickly moved onto the Flat Earth Grift, and attempted to get into the [[Mark Sargent]] / Patricia Steere crowd, drinking any amount of his own, undiluted urine as necessary. Quick to temper, and a high opinion of his own intelligence, mostly due to the massive chip on his shoulder that he isn't successful, he has somehow managed to distil all of his arguments down into a simple, undisputable (by people who don't give a crap) argument that sounds right and is easy to repeat. Has a central set of notes and talking points he shares with QE and others, but has regularly slipped up and disclosed this is a grift, he doesn't believe a word he says, just chases the argument down to it's incessant, drawn out conclusion of anyone listening just gives up.

Was good friends with fake minicab driver and crayola solicitor Anthony [[Riley]], who invented / pulled from his arse with no supporting materials Relative Density Equilibrium. A theory that explains why things drop, without explaining why items of different density drop at the same speed in a vacuum, or why objects on the ground experience an acceleration of 9.8m/s per second (or friction for that matter).

Regularly fills panel with education dodgers such as Brian's Logic, who never completed his Junior Cert, and has the same chip on his shoulder as his mates left rural Ireland for the big smoke.

As Paula needs to work to ensure they can keep up with the joneses, Nathan is free to hold daily Daddy Day Care sessions. His temper extends to more than just other adults though, his kids better watch out, or a well timed slap is inevitable. Nathan refuses to check out local men's sheds to develop other hobbies.

Lately, has been watching his empire burn as his friends turn their backs on him due to a Word file he is calling a book being held hostage. He is paying Paula to create a new Doc file, and listen to the benign shit he goes on about day after day while Paula actually works. This will probably end in divorce once school starts.

He does not know what he will do when the grift ends, as he is not popular enough to deflect.

== List of aliases ==
Slappy has earned himself many additional aliases (too many to fit in the infobox!). Here is a list of some of them.
* Nathan Jokely
* Golum 'the torn' Scrotum
* No Job Oakley
* 'Lives off donations' Choad Licker
* No Friends Slappy
* No Makeup Clown
* Neil's 'kneel before me' relief
* Michael Berryman's ugly brother
* UK'S Dumbest Beggar
* Nathan 'biggest beggar' Slapper
* Nathan Schmuckley
* Gollum Gobbler
* Meth Mouth Slappy
* Slappy T-Rex Arms

== Burned Bridges ==
Oakley is truly a horrid monster, as evidenced by the string of former panel members that he has turned on and is in constant fights with. In no particular Order:
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Adam Meak-In]]
* [[Broin]]
* [[Flatzoid]]
* [[Bev]]
* [[Elderbear]]
* [[JinCBR1]]

== Likes to Call his Critics Ugly ==
When Nathan can’t address a point, he pivots to appearance—calling critics ugly instead of engaging their arguments. It’s a textbook dodge that says more about his position than his opponents.

He forgets that this is his mouth and it is one of the ugliest things on our globe.

[[File:Oakley_teeth.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Oakley_teeth.jpg}}]]

== Wishing Self-Harm to Others ==
Nathan has repeatedly told opponents to harm themselves during disagreements. This behavior is documented across numerous instances in recorded debates/comments, including direct statements such as this:

[[File:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg|400px|link={{filepath:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg}}]]

== Refusing free trip to Antarctica ==

In 2024 Nathan was invited participate in [[The Final Experiment]]: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-03-25.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-01.jpeg|200px]]
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-04-30.jpeg|200px]]

He was then offered to receive a completely free trip to Antarctica: 
[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-08-25.jpeg|200px]]

 
He even personally responded to Will Duffy, the organizer of The Final Experiment, in a live chat where Will personally invited him to receive the free trip: 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_1.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_2.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_3.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_4.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_5.webp|300px]] 
[[File:Will_asking_Nathan_to_accept_free_TFE_trip_6.webp|300px]] 

== Flerf Mass ==
Nathan's daily show is modeled after a Catholic mass where he has a challenge-response with the panel.

If any acolytes besmirch the Oakley they may be assigned a number of Hail Oakleys as penance. 
[[File:Hail_Oakley.png|800px]]

== That time he admitted the earth is a globe ==
This was a conversation between him and Anthony Riley:

[[File:NathanOakleyAdmitsGlobe.png]]

== Nathan's Response to Appear on "The Drunk Debunk Show" to promote his "book"==
<blockquote>
Dear ugly dweeb cunt thief with a shite YouTube channel.

"I have Oakleys book, want me to send it"

"Yes send it me please"

So, you want to help me feed my kids by asking (not paying for) a book that is yet to be released be sent to you for free from a troll in your chat?? My book isn't out yet you dumb motherfucker shit for brains who believes anything he's told!

I'd love to flush your fuck ugly, thieving dweeb head down the toilet like the kids at your school used to do to you. You look like the type of person that often got beaten up just for being you, and based on your disingenuous message and willingness to steel from me, I can understand why.

Go find a tall building and use yourself to prove gravity with it! You can use the flat earth measurement of altitude from sea level to know how high you are when you do so. This will help prevent the world getting populated with other dumbfuck thieves, who believe everything that are told and are willing to steal from a family man.

If I wanted to talk to a fuck ugly, thieving dweeb cunt, I'd be the one proactively contacting you! You are a dumb, no name twat! "Sold exposure" you are total fucking nobody and completely delusional!

Let me know when you jump so I can continue not giving a fuck about you or what you do as nobody watches.

Feel free to join my live (door is open to cunts like you) show and maybe we'll build some actual rapport, or maybe you'll get your head flushed live for my audience and their appreciation of watching a no name wanker pirate get a metaphorical shit kicking by a real man. If you need a free copy of my book, feel free to beg me for it like you begged the bullies to stop beating you up!

Yours Faithfully

Nathan
</blockquote>

When asked for comment, TDDS considered this a "Maybe" and is still hoping Nathan comes through in the end.

== Slappy knows Mafs ==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sSL8ZP3IjM&t=500s Meters to Kilometers]

Unknown: "Question, you ready, how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Slappy: "I don't know how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Unknown: "What's the correct way" 
Slappy: "You Tell Me" 
Unknown: "The correct ways divide meters by a thousand" 
Slappy: "So if you have a meter and I divide that meter by 1000 you don't think that would give you millimeters" 
Unknown: "Meters into kilometers Nathan" 
Slappy: "You just said you divide meters by thousand to get kilometers so you're saying I divide something that is one meter long by 1,000 and that will come out to a kilometer it sounds like it sounds like lines you are quite literally [.....]. You do not divide meters to come out with kilometers why would you divide a value that is given in meters to come up with something larger" 
Unknown: "Because Nathan because the thing you don't understand is it a ratio. Did you do math in school 
Slappy: "Why would you divide a meter value when trying to come up with a larger value dividing something makes it smaller" 
Unknown: "Oh Dear" 

This incident is the inspiration for one of the [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

== Slappy knows Dimensions ==
[https://youtu.be/8sSL8ZP3IjM?si=UEk6idgXfVyW934q&t=224 Planes are 1D]

== Slappy knows how to Slap ==
[https://youtu.be/Cy8jQ08Ydg4?si=ftpTttUL05-buXXF&t=19 SLAP!!!!!!!]

== Slappy knows Herpes(and finally a different shirt) ==
[[File:Slappy knows Herpes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Slappy knows Herpes.png}}]]

== Slappy knows Phalli, no lie ==
It's no surprise to anybody that Slappy is suppressing his closeted homosexual desires & fantasies.

Here are just some of the fun ways he likes to disguise this.(hold mouse over)

[[File:Nathan Phallic 1.png|200px|Girth and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 2.png|200px|Skinny and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 3.png|200px|What mine is really like]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 4.png|200px|Give it a tickle first]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 5.png|200px|The 'Oh Yeah Big Boy']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 6.png|200px|The 'No Hands give it everything you got]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 8.png|120px|The 'Birdie Num Num']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 7.png|200px|Don't ignore the balls]]

== Slappy knows how to be a Coward, like nobody else ==
As it appears there are just the worst of the worst, the stupidest of the stupid Flerfs left, skimming the bottom of the barrel, only looking for a clip, SourPounder decided they are taking a hiatus from Flat Earth nonsense. Before going on hiatus, they put a challenge to Nathan Oakley to debate McToon for $500. Below is Nathan's response, in true Slappy form.

[[File:Slappy Cowardice.png||He has only been running from McToon for 5 years]]

[[File:Slappy Cowardice Response.png||Slappy has no use for Pepper Grinders, they just don't hit the spot like they used to]]

== Other Info ==
* Constantly goes [[flerf-on-flerf]] with everyone.
* Shares a Discord server with [[Quantum Eraser]].
* Was [https://youtu.be/Ldx_XV02Oec heard beating his children] while his mic was on.
* Wonders how his balls taste.
* Has personal prove of the dome.
* Unable to convert meters to kilometers <ref>[https://youtu.be/7IFaqezQj44?si=u3eFCFc9S_0KFjGG&t=360 6:00 Nathan can't convert meters into kilometers, <q>#15 Flat earth conspiracy theorist can't do the most basic of maths plus Tarzan appears</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
see [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

* Is a bender when he skates
* Has “no issue with” the [[Wikipedia:Nigger|N-word]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/wLKlhELvbeM?t=1401 23:21 Oakley using the N-word, <q>Flat Earth Debate 2321 LIVE Politics</q> by NathanOakley1980]</ref>
* loves the mute button but finds it hard to do when debating live <ref>[https://youtu.be/cW4lc5bX6Hk?si=0jt0IuD0BdaRZ-sM <q>Oakley without a mute button</q> by Deplorable ilk]</ref>and <ref>[https://youtu.be/2IgEqPojXn4?si=JmXHJ47QBv9hDgVn <q>"Globe Denying" Chat show host put firmly back in his box</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

== Toilet Paper Brand No.2, for No.2's ==
Slappy has advised his upcoming book will be called "All Roads Lead to Flat Earth"

Every week for some time now, Slappy advises all 5 viewers the book will be realised soon, I am in no rush, it comes out when it comes out, about 2 weeks.

Ferengi has said in [https://www.youtube.com/live/eXreqQqg0cU?si=aAQbdAaehEQ2A1v3&t=2214 FED 2556] he firmly believes the book will be well received, because "It'll be a really good publication", and will ultimately be a source of income. This is welcomed news to "The Biggest Beggar on YT" as he constantly raves on how poor he is, and quickly segues into asking for donations.

During [https://www.youtube.com/live/fY1yx8bYxXc?si=vslFnD1NTciZagFq&t=3019 FED 2561] Nathan advises the book is near completion. He is so overjoyed at the soon to be World changing event(in his simpleton mind at least), he almost cried, but he did cream himself.

July 2nd on Discord, Slappy advised the book's release 'is imminent'.

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]
[[Category:Criminals]]
[[Category: British flerfs]]

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 6.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:48Z

MCToon:

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 5.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:39Z

MCToon:

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 4.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:30Z

MCToon:

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 3.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:21Z

MCToon:

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 2.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:13Z

MCToon:

File:Will asking Nathan to accept free TFE trip 1.webp

2026-07-20T20:40:01Z

MCToon:

Nathan Oakley

2026-07-20T20:34:45Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| image = File:NathanOakley.jpg
| caption = TFW his daughter is playing instead of sitting still during "Daddy's shouty time"
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/ YouTube]
| papa = [[Eric Dubay]]
| drinksUrine = Yes
| realName = Paula Oakley's Ward
| alias = Slappy the Clown Paula's Biggest Mistake Neuticles Nathan Many more...
| location = Paula's Home
| religiflerf = Just enough to grift
| teeth = Ferengi
| adoptedBy=[[User:BuckSodbuster|BuckSodbuster]]
}}

== Known Accounts ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Platform !! Account
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley1980 <code>@NathanOakley1980</code>]
|-
| YouTube || [https://www.youtube.com/@NathanOakley80 <code>@NathanOakley80</code>]
|-
| EBay || [https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/niceplant <code>niceplant</code>]
|}

Oakley is without doubt the most Omega Cuck on the globe.

Absolutely, without question, bows to his superior, John Stunja, or Quantum Eraser. He accepts unconditionally that QE is the Master of Flat Earth, and Nathan is but a Grasshopper.

Nathan's hormones elevated and attempted a coup, only to be bitch slapped bigger than Texas. Nathan learnt not to play with grown ups. Following the severe humiliation that followed, he sought to claim total ownership of a book he supposedly emailed, but somehow lost the email and the source document. If you believe that load of shit, 'Welcome to Flat Earth', you are ofiicialy stoopid, you'll fit right in, take a seat. Humiliation is your new best friend.

Nathan's favourite homeage of The Prodigy's 'Smack my bitch up' is 'Smack my kids up'.

His favourite snack is 'Dogs go wacky for smackos'.

Rumor has it he can lick his own balls like all dogs can(and by balls we mean Neuticles). He claims they are salty but helps it with hydration.

Loves that simpleton Woger Wed'not'wel super chatted QE, loves it, I mean he jacked off to it.

Started channel in 2010, showing off lifestyle equipment (audio visual, coffee machines etc) with the name "Audio Paula" named after his now wife. Experimented with various guises, including basically pimping out his wife for views and showing sex toys in the background, which Nathan uses exclusively on himself. If OnlyFans were around then, the Flat Earth might not exist as we know it! Quickly moved onto the Flat Earth Grift, and attempted to get into the [[Mark Sargent]] / Patricia Steere crowd, drinking any amount of his own, undiluted urine as necessary. Quick to temper, and a high opinion of his own intelligence, mostly due to the massive chip on his shoulder that he isn't successful, he has somehow managed to distil all of his arguments down into a simple, undisputable (by people who don't give a crap) argument that sounds right and is easy to repeat. Has a central set of notes and talking points he shares with QE and others, but has regularly slipped up and disclosed this is a grift, he doesn't believe a word he says, just chases the argument down to it's incessant, drawn out conclusion of anyone listening just gives up.

Was good friends with fake minicab driver and crayola solicitor Anthony [[Riley]], who invented / pulled from his arse with no supporting materials Relative Density Equilibrium. A theory that explains why things drop, without explaining why items of different density drop at the same speed in a vacuum, or why objects on the ground experience an acceleration of 9.8m/s per second (or friction for that matter).

Regularly fills panel with education dodgers such as Brian's Logic, who never completed his Junior Cert, and has the same chip on his shoulder as his mates left rural Ireland for the big smoke.

As Paula needs to work to ensure they can keep up with the joneses, Nathan is free to hold daily Daddy Day Care sessions. His temper extends to more than just other adults though, his kids better watch out, or a well timed slap is inevitable. Nathan refuses to check out local men's sheds to develop other hobbies.

Lately, has been watching his empire burn as his friends turn their backs on him due to a Word file he is calling a book being held hostage. He is paying Paula to create a new Doc file, and listen to the benign shit he goes on about day after day while Paula actually works. This will probably end in divorce once school starts.

He does not know what he will do when the grift ends, as he is not popular enough to deflect.

== List of aliases ==
Slappy has earned himself many additional aliases (too many to fit in the infobox!). Here is a list of some of them.
* Nathan Jokely
* Golum 'the torn' Scrotum
* No Job Oakley
* 'Lives off donations' Choad Licker
* No Friends Slappy
* No Makeup Clown
* Neil's 'kneel before me' relief
* Michael Berryman's ugly brother
* UK'S Dumbest Beggar
* Nathan 'biggest beggar' Slapper
* Nathan Schmuckley
* Gollum Gobbler
* Meth Mouth Slappy
* Slappy T-Rex Arms

== Burned Bridges ==
Oakley is truly a horrid monster, as evidenced by the string of former panel members that he has turned on and is in constant fights with. In no particular Order:
* [[Arwijn]]
* [[Quantum Eraser]]
* [[Adam Meak-In]]
* [[Broin]]
* [[Flatzoid]]
* [[Bev]]
* [[Elderbear]]
* [[JinCBR1]]

== Likes to Call his Critics Ugly ==
When Nathan can’t address a point, he pivots to appearance—calling critics ugly instead of engaging their arguments. It’s a textbook dodge that says more about his position than his opponents.

He forgets that this is his mouth and it is one of the ugliest things on our globe.

[[File:Oakley_teeth.jpg|200px|link={{filepath:Oakley_teeth.jpg}}]]

== Wishing Self-Harm to Others ==
Nathan has repeatedly told opponents to harm themselves during disagreements. This behavior is documented across numerous instances in recorded debates/comments, including direct statements such as this:

[[File:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg|400px|link={{filepath:Oakley_self_delete.jpeg}}]]

== Refusing free trip to Antarctica ==

In 2024 Nathan was invited to take a free trip to Antarctica to test his claims about flat earth.

[[File:Will_email_to_Nathan_2024-03-25.jpeg]]

== Flerf Mass ==
Nathan's daily show is modeled after a Catholic mass where he has a challenge-response with the panel.

If any acolytes besmirch the Oakley they may be assigned a number of Hail Oakleys as penance. 
[[File:Hail_Oakley.png|800px]]

== That time he admitted the earth is a globe ==
This was a conversation between him and Anthony Riley:

[[File:NathanOakleyAdmitsGlobe.png]]

== Nathan's Response to Appear on "The Drunk Debunk Show" to promote his "book"==
<blockquote>
Dear ugly dweeb cunt thief with a shite YouTube channel.

"I have Oakleys book, want me to send it"

"Yes send it me please"

So, you want to help me feed my kids by asking (not paying for) a book that is yet to be released be sent to you for free from a troll in your chat?? My book isn't out yet you dumb motherfucker shit for brains who believes anything he's told!

I'd love to flush your fuck ugly, thieving dweeb head down the toilet like the kids at your school used to do to you. You look like the type of person that often got beaten up just for being you, and based on your disingenuous message and willingness to steel from me, I can understand why.

Go find a tall building and use yourself to prove gravity with it! You can use the flat earth measurement of altitude from sea level to know how high you are when you do so. This will help prevent the world getting populated with other dumbfuck thieves, who believe everything that are told and are willing to steal from a family man.

If I wanted to talk to a fuck ugly, thieving dweeb cunt, I'd be the one proactively contacting you! You are a dumb, no name twat! "Sold exposure" you are total fucking nobody and completely delusional!

Let me know when you jump so I can continue not giving a fuck about you or what you do as nobody watches.

Feel free to join my live (door is open to cunts like you) show and maybe we'll build some actual rapport, or maybe you'll get your head flushed live for my audience and their appreciation of watching a no name wanker pirate get a metaphorical shit kicking by a real man. If you need a free copy of my book, feel free to beg me for it like you begged the bullies to stop beating you up!

Yours Faithfully

Nathan
</blockquote>

When asked for comment, TDDS considered this a "Maybe" and is still hoping Nathan comes through in the end.

== Slappy knows Mafs ==
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sSL8ZP3IjM&t=500s Meters to Kilometers]

Unknown: "Question, you ready, how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Slappy: "I don't know how do you convert meters into kilometers?" 
Unknown: "What's the correct way" 
Slappy: "You Tell Me" 
Unknown: "The correct ways divide meters by a thousand" 
Slappy: "So if you have a meter and I divide that meter by 1000 you don't think that would give you millimeters" 
Unknown: "Meters into kilometers Nathan" 
Slappy: "You just said you divide meters by thousand to get kilometers so you're saying I divide something that is one meter long by 1,000 and that will come out to a kilometer it sounds like it sounds like lines you are quite literally [.....]. You do not divide meters to come out with kilometers why would you divide a value that is given in meters to come up with something larger" 
Unknown: "Because Nathan because the thing you don't understand is it a ratio. Did you do math in school 
Slappy: "Why would you divide a meter value when trying to come up with a larger value dividing something makes it smaller" 
Unknown: "Oh Dear" 

This incident is the inspiration for one of the [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

== Slappy knows Dimensions ==
[https://youtu.be/8sSL8ZP3IjM?si=UEk6idgXfVyW934q&t=224 Planes are 1D]

== Slappy knows how to Slap ==
[https://youtu.be/Cy8jQ08Ydg4?si=ftpTttUL05-buXXF&t=19 SLAP!!!!!!!]

== Slappy knows Herpes(and finally a different shirt) ==
[[File:Slappy knows Herpes.png|400px|link={{filepath:Slappy knows Herpes.png}}]]

== Slappy knows Phalli, no lie ==
It's no surprise to anybody that Slappy is suppressing his closeted homosexual desires & fantasies.

Here are just some of the fun ways he likes to disguise this.(hold mouse over)

[[File:Nathan Phallic 1.png|200px|Girth and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 2.png|200px|Skinny and long]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 3.png|200px|What mine is really like]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 4.png|200px|Give it a tickle first]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 5.png|200px|The 'Oh Yeah Big Boy']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 6.png|200px|The 'No Hands give it everything you got]]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 8.png|120px|The 'Birdie Num Num']]
[[File:Nathan Phallic 7.png|200px|Don't ignore the balls]]

== Slappy knows how to be a Coward, like nobody else ==
As it appears there are just the worst of the worst, the stupidest of the stupid Flerfs left, skimming the bottom of the barrel, only looking for a clip, SourPounder decided they are taking a hiatus from Flat Earth nonsense. Before going on hiatus, they put a challenge to Nathan Oakley to debate McToon for $500. Below is Nathan's response, in true Slappy form.

[[File:Slappy Cowardice.png||He has only been running from McToon for 5 years]]

[[File:Slappy Cowardice Response.png||Slappy has no use for Pepper Grinders, they just don't hit the spot like they used to]]

== Other Info ==
* Constantly goes [[flerf-on-flerf]] with everyone.
* Shares a Discord server with [[Quantum Eraser]].
* Was [https://youtu.be/Ldx_XV02Oec heard beating his children] while his mic was on.
* Wonders how his balls taste.
* Has personal prove of the dome.
* Unable to convert meters to kilometers <ref>[https://youtu.be/7IFaqezQj44?si=u3eFCFc9S_0KFjGG&t=360 6:00 Nathan can't convert meters into kilometers, <q>#15 Flat earth conspiracy theorist can't do the most basic of maths plus Tarzan appears</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>
see [[Housekeeping Questions For Flerfs]]

* Is a bender when he skates
* Has “no issue with” the [[Wikipedia:Nigger|N-word]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/live/wLKlhELvbeM?t=1401 23:21 Oakley using the N-word, <q>Flat Earth Debate 2321 LIVE Politics</q> by NathanOakley1980]</ref>
* loves the mute button but finds it hard to do when debating live <ref>[https://youtu.be/cW4lc5bX6Hk?si=0jt0IuD0BdaRZ-sM <q>Oakley without a mute button</q> by Deplorable ilk]</ref>and <ref>[https://youtu.be/2IgEqPojXn4?si=JmXHJ47QBv9hDgVn <q>"Globe Denying" Chat show host put firmly back in his box</q> by Conspiracy Toonz]</ref>

== Toilet Paper Brand No.2, for No.2's ==
Slappy has advised his upcoming book will be called "All Roads Lead to Flat Earth"

Every week for some time now, Slappy advises all 5 viewers the book will be realised soon, I am in no rush, it comes out when it comes out, about 2 weeks.

Ferengi has said in [https://www.youtube.com/live/eXreqQqg0cU?si=aAQbdAaehEQ2A1v3&t=2214 FED 2556] he firmly believes the book will be well received, because "It'll be a really good publication", and will ultimately be a source of income. This is welcomed news to "The Biggest Beggar on YT" as he constantly raves on how poor he is, and quickly segues into asking for donations.

During [https://www.youtube.com/live/fY1yx8bYxXc?si=vslFnD1NTciZagFq&t=3019 FED 2561] Nathan advises the book is near completion. He is so overjoyed at the soon to be World changing event(in his simpleton mind at least), he almost cried, but he did cream himself.

July 2nd on Discord, Slappy advised the book's release 'is imminent'.

= References =
<references/>

[[Category:YouTube flerfs]]
[[Category:Papa flerfs]]
[[Category:Criminals]]
[[Category: British flerfs]]

File:Will email to Nathan 2024-08-25.jpeg

2026-07-20T20:32:27Z

MCToon:

File:Will email to Nathan 2024-04-30.jpeg

2026-07-20T20:32:13Z

MCToon:

File:Will email to Nathan 2024-04-01.jpeg

2026-07-20T20:31:59Z

MCToon:

File:Will email to Nathan 2024-03-25.jpeg

2026-07-20T20:31:39Z

MCToon:

MCToon Live episodes

2026-07-09T17:26:54Z

MCToon:

[[Category:MCToon Live]]

This page lists documented '''[[MCToon]]''' episodes on the Flerf Wiki.

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
! Ep. !! Date !! Guests !! Topic !! Wiki
|-
| 762 || 2026-07-08 || Prof. Phil Bell || Critique of the gravity chapter in [[Book Welcome to Flat Earth|''Welcome to Flat Earth'']] by [[Quantum Eraser|John Stunja]] (QE) — ''Flat Earth Book Destroyed'' || [[MCToon Live 762 - Prof Phil Bell QEs Book|page]]
|}

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-07-07T12:35:25Z

MCToon:

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || The "a field" also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the aether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Alan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== Space Audits (Alan) and Franco Ligabue sources ==

In the debate, [[Piezo]] said the equations and Franco's presentation are on Alan's website — the site is [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits].

=== Alan's Space Audits site ===

* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits] — main Obsidian Publish site
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/2025_Ligabue_Airy_Relativity Airy's Experiment and Relativity (Ligabue 2025)] — slide-by-slide breakdown of Franco Ligabue's 14-slide presentation on stellar aberration and Airy's water telescope (<code>airy_relativity-1.pdf</code>, 2025). This is the material Piezo described as Franco's "seven or eight page PowerPoint."
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/1871_Airy_Supposed_Alteration_Aberration Airy 1871 — On a supposed alteration in aberration] — Alan's annotated version of George Airy's original paper, with links to related historical sources and to the Ligabue presentation.

Alan's site also references a planned '''[https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Franco 7-part "Response to Franco"]''' rebuttal and a null-hypothesis page on aberration in air vs. water; those pages are linked from the Airy notes but were '''not published''' (404) as of June 2026.

'''Arcseconds in the Ligabue slides''' (for cross-checking Piezo's 15″ / 20″ / 28″ challenge): vacuum aberration '''β ≈ 20″'''; water angle in the telescope frame '''θ₂ = −β/n ≈ −15″''' (plane-wave / Franco's model); wave-packet angle in the Sun frame '''θ′₂ ≈ 12″'''. Ligabue argues the observable Airy measured remains the vacuum angle '''β''', not the internal water angle.

=== Franco Ligabue — public profiles ===

'''Franco Ligabue''' is an associate professor of experimental physics at the [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue Scuola Normale Superiore] (Pisa, Italy), a long-time [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 CERN collaborator] (ALEPH at LEP; CMS at the LHC), matching Piezo's description of "Franco the CERN physicist."

* [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (English)
* [https://www.sns.it/it/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (Italian)
* [https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1549-7107 ORCID: 0000-0002-1549-7107]
* [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 INSPIRE-HEP author record] (F.Ligabue.1; CMS, ALEPH)
* [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CACAGhYAAAAJ Google Scholar profile]
* [https://fitforthem.unipa.it/author:0000000000037498 University of Palermo publication index] (ORCID-linked)
* [https://vanlett.com/ilbue63 Vanlett profile] (@ilbue63)
* [https://www.linkedin.com/in/franco-ligabue-53615352 LinkedIn profile]

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-07-01T16:30:15Z

MCToon: /* Discord conversation */

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || The "a field" also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the aether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Allan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== Space Audits (Alan) and Franco Ligabue sources ==

In the debate, [[Piezo]] said the equations and Franco's presentation are on Allan's website — the site is [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits], run by independent researcher '''Alan''' (not "Allan").

=== Alan's Space Audits site ===

* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits] — main Obsidian Publish site
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/2025_Ligabue_Airy_Relativity Airy's Experiment and Relativity (Ligabue 2025)] — slide-by-slide breakdown of Franco Ligabue's 14-slide presentation on stellar aberration and Airy's water telescope (<code>airy_relativity-1.pdf</code>, 2025). This is the material Piezo described as Franco's "seven or eight page PowerPoint."
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/1871_Airy_Supposed_Alteration_Aberration Airy 1871 — On a supposed alteration in aberration] — Alan's annotated version of George Airy's original paper, with links to related historical sources and to the Ligabue presentation.

Alan's site also references a planned '''[https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Franco 7-part "Response to Franco"]''' rebuttal and a null-hypothesis page on aberration in air vs. water; those pages are linked from the Airy notes but were '''not published''' (404) as of June 2026.

'''Arcseconds in the Ligabue slides''' (for cross-checking Piezo's 15″ / 20″ / 28″ challenge): vacuum aberration '''β ≈ 20″'''; water angle in the telescope frame '''θ₂ = −β/n ≈ −15″''' (plane-wave / Franco's model); wave-packet angle in the Sun frame '''θ′₂ ≈ 12″'''. Ligabue argues the observable Airy measured remains the vacuum angle '''β''', not the internal water angle.

=== Franco Ligabue — public profiles ===

'''Franco Ligabue''' is an associate professor of experimental physics at the [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue Scuola Normale Superiore] (Pisa, Italy), a long-time [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 CERN collaborator] (ALEPH at LEP; CMS at the LHC), matching Piezo's description of "Franco the CERN physicist."

* [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (English)
* [https://www.sns.it/it/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (Italian)
* [https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1549-7107 ORCID: 0000-0002-1549-7107]
* [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 INSPIRE-HEP author record] (F.Ligabue.1; CMS, ALEPH)
* [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CACAGhYAAAAJ Google Scholar profile]
* [https://fitforthem.unipa.it/author:0000000000037498 University of Palermo publication index] (ORCID-linked)
* [https://vanlett.com/ilbue63 Vanlett profile] (@ilbue63)
* [https://www.linkedin.com/in/franco-ligabue-53615352 LinkedIn profile]

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-07-01T16:29:16Z

MCToon:

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], [[Locksmith]], [[Geo]], and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || The "a field" also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the aether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Allan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== Space Audits (Alan) and Franco Ligabue sources ==

In the debate, [[Piezo]] said the equations and Franco's presentation are on Allan's website — the site is [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits], run by independent researcher '''Alan''' (not "Allan").

=== Alan's Space Audits site ===

* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits] — main Obsidian Publish site
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/2025_Ligabue_Airy_Relativity Airy's Experiment and Relativity (Ligabue 2025)] — slide-by-slide breakdown of Franco Ligabue's 14-slide presentation on stellar aberration and Airy's water telescope (<code>airy_relativity-1.pdf</code>, 2025). This is the material Piezo described as Franco's "seven or eight page PowerPoint."
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/1871_Airy_Supposed_Alteration_Aberration Airy 1871 — On a supposed alteration in aberration] — Alan's annotated version of George Airy's original paper, with links to related historical sources and to the Ligabue presentation.

Alan's site also references a planned '''[https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Franco 7-part "Response to Franco"]''' rebuttal and a null-hypothesis page on aberration in air vs. water; those pages are linked from the Airy notes but were '''not published''' (404) as of June 2026.

'''Arcseconds in the Ligabue slides''' (for cross-checking Piezo's 15″ / 20″ / 28″ challenge): vacuum aberration '''β ≈ 20″'''; water angle in the telescope frame '''θ₂ = −β/n ≈ −15″''' (plane-wave / Franco's model); wave-packet angle in the Sun frame '''θ′₂ ≈ 12″'''. Ligabue argues the observable Airy measured remains the vacuum angle '''β''', not the internal water angle.

=== Franco Ligabue — public profiles ===

'''Franco Ligabue''' is an associate professor of experimental physics at the [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue Scuola Normale Superiore] (Pisa, Italy), a long-time [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 CERN collaborator] (ALEPH at LEP; CMS at the LHC), matching Piezo's description of "Franco the CERN physicist."

* [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (English)
* [https://www.sns.it/it/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (Italian)
* [https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1549-7107 ORCID: 0000-0002-1549-7107]
* [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 INSPIRE-HEP author record] (F.Ligabue.1; CMS, ALEPH)
* [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CACAGhYAAAAJ Google Scholar profile]
* [https://fitforthem.unipa.it/author:0000000000037498 University of Palermo publication index] (ORCID-linked)
* [https://vanlett.com/ilbue63 Vanlett profile] (@ilbue63)
* [https://www.linkedin.com/in/franco-ligabue-53615352 LinkedIn profile]

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

Aberration of Starlight

2026-07-01T14:52:57Z

MCToon: Replaced content with "Flerfs cannot explain the Aberration of Starlight. They invent all sorts of cope. See: AetherCosPlay_Aberration_or_Starlight"

Flerfs cannot explain the Aberration of Starlight. They invent all sorts of cope.
See: [[AetherCosPlay_Aberration_or_Starlight]]

Locksmith

2026-07-01T13:34:49Z

MCToon: Created page with "{{Infobox | realName = Unknown | alias=Locksmith | image = File:Locksmith_flerf_Discord_avatar.png | location = US | platform = Discord | papa = Eric Dubay | antisemite = Probably | religiflerf = Yes | drinksUrine = never been falsified | teeth = maybe }} Locksmith is an 11th string flerf troll."

{{Infobox
| realName = Unknown
| alias=Locksmith
| image = File:Locksmith_flerf_Discord_avatar.png
| location = US
| platform = Discord
| papa = [[Eric Dubay]]
| antisemite = Probably
| religiflerf = Yes
| drinksUrine = never been falsified
| teeth = maybe
}}

Locksmith is an 11th string flerf troll.

File:Locksmith flerf Discord avatar.png

2026-07-01T13:32:30Z

MCToon:

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-06-30T14:14:12Z

MCToon: /* Discord conversation */

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || The "a field" also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the aether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Allan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== Space Audits (Alan) and Franco Ligabue sources ==

In the debate, [[Piezo]] said the equations and Franco's presentation are on Allan's website — the site is [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits], run by independent researcher '''Alan''' (not "Allan").

=== Alan's Space Audits site ===

* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits Space Audits] — main Obsidian Publish site
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/2025_Ligabue_Airy_Relativity Airy's Experiment and Relativity (Ligabue 2025)] — slide-by-slide breakdown of Franco Ligabue's 14-slide presentation on stellar aberration and Airy's water telescope (<code>airy_relativity-1.pdf</code>, 2025). This is the material Piezo described as Franco's "seven or eight page PowerPoint."
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Sources/1871_Airy_Supposed_Alteration_Aberration Airy 1871 — On a supposed alteration in aberration] — Alan's annotated version of George Airy's original paper, with links to related historical sources and to the Ligabue presentation.

Alan's site also references a planned '''[https://publish.obsidian.md/spaceaudits/Franco 7-part "Response to Franco"]''' rebuttal and a null-hypothesis page on aberration in air vs. water; those pages are linked from the Airy notes but were '''not published''' (404) as of June 2026.

'''Arcseconds in the Ligabue slides''' (for cross-checking Piezo's 15″ / 20″ / 28″ challenge): vacuum aberration '''β ≈ 20″'''; water angle in the telescope frame '''θ₂ = −β/n ≈ −15″''' (plane-wave / Franco's model); wave-packet angle in the Sun frame '''θ′₂ ≈ 12″'''. Ligabue argues the observable Airy measured remains the vacuum angle '''β''', not the internal water angle.

=== Franco Ligabue — public profiles ===

'''Franco Ligabue''' is an associate professor of experimental physics at the [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue Scuola Normale Superiore] (Pisa, Italy), a long-time [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 CERN collaborator] (ALEPH at LEP; CMS at the LHC), matching Piezo's description of "Franco the CERN physicist."

* [https://www.sns.it/en/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (English)
* [https://www.sns.it/it/persona/franco-ligabue SNS faculty profile] (Italian)
* [https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1549-7107 ORCID: 0000-0002-1549-7107]
* [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1000247 INSPIRE-HEP author record] (F.Ligabue.1; CMS, ALEPH)
* [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CACAGhYAAAAJ Google Scholar profile]
* [https://fitforthem.unipa.it/author:0000000000037498 University of Palermo publication index] (ORCID-linked)
* [https://vanlett.com/ilbue63 Vanlett profile] (@ilbue63)
* [https://www.linkedin.com/in/franco-ligabue-53615352 LinkedIn profile]

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-06-30T03:37:13Z

MCToon: /* TruthNerds response */

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. The ve yeah the the a field also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the ether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Allan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, [[TruthNerds]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&lc=Ugx_LcFqFNgKX49LMsV4AaABAg wrote]:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-06-30T03:35:11Z

MCToon:

'''Work in progress'''

== Overview ==

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, and Brenda had this conversation about stellar aberration, Bradley's equation, and Airy's failure (transcript: ''Aries failure'') during [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Hey Flerfs! Give Evidence] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg watch]).

== Discord conversation ==

'''Speakers:''' [[Piezo]], [[MCToon]], Locksmith, Geo, Brenda — see excerpt for roles.

'''Source:''' [https://www.youtube.com/live/MTqbEjDeCEg Livestream video]; timestamps in section headers link to the video.

'''Context: Ether theory → stellar aberration pivot''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13383 3:43:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. The ve yeah the the a field also known as the vector potential in Maxwell's equations is the ether.
|-
| MCToon || That's it.
|-
| MCToon || And and and how how does so how does that negate how does that negate aberration of starlight and the color shift of starlight?
|-
| Piezo || So if you want to just start rattling things off one by one, this conversation is going to take forever. But what you asked was right, remember your original question, what are its predictions? And I said, okay, well here is the mathematical description of it that gives all the predictions.
|-
| Piezo || And now you're like pivoting to let's talk about stellar aberration and all this other stuff.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, you you it needs to be consistent with those loop.
|-
| Piezo || It has to be consistent with all of those things though.
|}

'''Stellar aberration vs. experiments''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13431 3:43:51])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Stellar aberration is not even consistent with experiments.
|-
| MCToon || Yes, it is.
|-
| Piezo || Uh not Aries failure.
|-
| MCToon || Aries failure was not testing for aberration.
|-
| Locksmith || It's a stationary geocentric observation. Anyways, a aberration is not a geocentric stationary observation.
|-
| Locksmith || Where do you take the measurements from
|-
| MCToon || the moving earth as as it confirmed that the earth is moving
|-
| Locksmith || So, it's geocentric then, right?
|-
| MCToon || No, you're you're assume putting the cart before the horse there, buddy. You're just you're just affirming the consequent.
|}

'''James Bradley's equation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13464 3:44:24])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| Piezo || Brad Bradley's equation Bradley's equation does not correctly predict what will happen if you vary one of the two velocities. It only has two input variables.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah?
|-
| Piezo || So if you if you vary one of those variables, then the angle should change and it didn't. That's the important part of invoking
|-
| MCToon || when was wait when was when did we vary the rotate the the the linear speed of the Earth around the sun?
|-
| Piezo || We didn't we varied the other variable which is the speed of that the light's moving through the telescope.
|-
| MCToon || Ah, yes. But special relativity deals with that just fine. So I don't know what your problem is.
|-
| Piezo || No, it doesn't.
|}

'''Doing the math — Franco, Wikipedia, arcseconds''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13503 3:45:03])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Oh, no it doesn't. There you go. You're smarter than 120 years of of people that actually study this. Got it.
|-
| Piezo || If you you can you can take either either the publicly available equations straight off of Wikipedia or you can take the equations that we had Franco the CERN physicist write out and do a seven or eight page PowerPoint presentation on for us. Take either of those two equation sets and plug all the variables in and you'll get either 15 or 28 arcsec and his measurement was 20. So
|-
| MCToon || all right, I'd love to see that.
|-
| Piezo || Yeah. I mean, you can go on Allan has it on his website or he can send it to you personally if you want it. All right.
|-
| Locksmith || So, you're saying it matches the stationary telescope prediction?
|-
| Piezo || No, I'm saying that the math I'm saying that the I'm saying that the math if you use special relativity and you and you do it with, you know, the index of refraction for water and you plug all the numbers in, depending on which model you use, whether you use the plane wave model or whether you use the like uh photon model, you'll get either 15 arcseconds or 28 arcsec.
|-
| MCToon || the plane wave model or the photon model. What are these?
|-
| Piezo || Well, it's the emission theory and the wave theory of light. There's two different theories for light, right? You can treat it as a wave or a particle.
|-
| Piezo || So, either depending on which one you use, you'll either get uh 15 arcsec once you put water in the telescope or you'll get 28.
|-
| Piezo || And Franco did the math for 15. And if you use the other model that's on Wikipedia, you'll get 28, 27, 28. The answer is 20 as to what he measured. It did not change when you put water in it.
|-
| Piezo || That's the only thing you can't have. It has to change one of the other two. You can't have the angle not change. That's the one thing you can't have. That's what he measured.
|-
| MCToon || I don't think that's the actual answer, but okay. I'll have to look at that.
|-
| Brenda || Did we give up on tests of flat Earth?
|}

'''Challenge to reproduce the calculation''' ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTqbEjDeCEg&t=13626 3:47:06])
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
! style="width:100px;" | Speaker !! Quote
|-
| MCToon || Yes. Yeah, that that was discarded a while ago. So, I do have uh it's coming up on 2 o'clock here and I got a bunch of super chats to read out. So, I won't uh I won't uh bore the uh Geo server here with that.
|-
| Geo || All right. Yeah, if you're going to read those and wrap up your show. But, uh I just wanted to say I don't I mean, nobody gave up on any of those tests. I don't know what you mean. Just in the conversation.
|-
| MCToon || Yeah, the conversation.
|-
| Piezo || You should make a follow-up video, mcune, where you where you do the math force failure. You can get the equations like they're on Wikipedia or where we can give you the Franco's presentation if you want both models and you can just plug the numbers in and see what it spits out. It's not going to spit out 20. I can tell you that. You should do a follow-up for your viewers.
|-
| MCToon || Sure.
|-
| Brenda || Did you decide on a test? Did you decide?
|-
| Piezo || So everybody can see so everybody can see what the velocity of light is in the water frame or in the sun frame, right? you get.
|-
| MCToon || So, yeah, Brenda, no test was agreed on.
|}

== TruthNerds response ==

In the comments section of that video, '''TruthNerds''' wrote:

<blockquote>
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

# The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
# The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.
</blockquote>

=== PS ===

<blockquote>
The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.
</blockquote>

=== PPS ===

<blockquote>
Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)
</blockquote>

[[Category:AetherCosPlay]]
[[Category:Stellar aberration]]

AetherCosPlay Aberration or Starlight

2026-06-30T03:16:03Z

MCToon: Created page with "Work in Progress: On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server Piezo and MCToon had this conversation: Insert conversation here In the comments section of that video TruthNerds wrote this response: A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law) Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failu..."

Work in Progress:

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server [[Piezo]] and [[MCToon]] had this conversation:

Insert conversation here

In the comments section of that video TruthNerds wrote this response:
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

1. The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
2. The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.

Reply

2 replies
2
@TruthNerds
@TruthNerds
Member (5 years, 9 months)
Received one of the highest number of hearts from you
Publicly subscribed to you (6 years)
• 3 days ago
PS: The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.

PPS: Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)

Aberration of Starlight

2026-06-30T03:14:17Z

MCToon:

Aberration of Starlight

2026-06-30T02:50:30Z

Work in Progress:

On 2026-06-26 on the Earth Awakenings Discord server Piezo and MCToon had this conversation:

Insert conversation here

In the comments section of that video TruthNerds wrote this response:
A flat Earther found a formula which he doesn't understand and put some numbers in it. When has that ever happened before! (Warning, long post … see Brandolini's Law)

Anyway, Geo claims that Alan calculated the expected stellar aberration in Airy's failure experiment and that it doesn't match SR. By plugging in different light speeds, apparently. 😂

Ok, insider joke? I'll elaborate.

Let's first look at what Geo means by Bradley's formula. The classical formula is derived assuming that light propagates as a wave with a given speed in a stationary medium, aka aether, and the application of Newtonian mechanics.

It is θ - arctan(sin θ / (v/c + cos θ)) where θ is the angle of movement relative to the viewing direction, v is speed and c is the speed of light.

Then there's the relativistic formula, which is θ - 2 arctan(sqrt((1-v/c)/(1+v/c)) * tan(θ/2)). The relativistic formula reduces to the classical formula for v << c. Furthermore, for θ = 90° and v<<c, both reduce to v/c (in radians) as an approximation.

Ok, first, let's do some calculations, plain 90° aberration with Earth's average orbital speed gives about 0.0996 mrad (about 20.5 arcseconds) both for the classical and for the relativistic formula. It really makes no difference at those speeds!

Now, what did Alan presumably do to model Airy's experiment? Changing θ makes no sense, we want to keep that constant for comparability. Changing v makes no sense because Earth's speed wouldn't change. So he must've modified c. And that is hilarious!

Why? Well, for how Bradley's formula was derived, it would make sense because it is originally based on the assumption of a wave propagating through the aether. Slower wave propagation would thus affect the aberration angle.

But it doesn't make any sense to vary c in the relativistic formula! The relativistic formula is not derived from any assumption about a wave propagating through a fixed medium, it is based on the Lorentz transformation and the postulates of Special Relativity:

1. The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
2. The speed of light in a vacuum (denoted c) is the same for all observers.

The speed of light to plug into the relativistic formula is always that same c, it has nothing to do with wave propagation in a medium. The formula follows from a coordinate transform in 4D spacetime. I.e. it is derived geometrically. It doesn't care about whether the light goes through a vacuum, air, water, glass or what have you.

Alan is once again debunking himself: If (classical) aether theory were correct, then Airy's experiment should have detected a change in aberration angle consistent with Bradley's formula (using different c).

Airy did not detect such a change, which is entirely consistent with SR. Alan therefore must straw man SR and misapply the relativistic formula in order to try and discredit it.

Reply

2 replies
2
@TruthNerds
@TruthNerds
Member (5 years, 9 months)
Received one of the highest number of hearts from you
Publicly subscribed to you (6 years)
• 3 days ago
PS: The speed of light is actually the same in all media if you take the front velocity of a light pulse. That might also be called the speed of causality. What changes in water is the phase velocity. While this is very important for some optical effects, namely refraction, it is irrelevant for the derivation of the relativistic aberration formula.

PPS: Why do we still use the classical formula? It is simpler and a good approximation for non-relativistic speeds. However, we now know to also only use constant c in it. Then the formula's original derivation becomes invalid, but it remains valid as a numerical approximation. (It can be independently derived as an approximation of the SR formula.)

Debbie Duran

2026-06-25T05:23:26Z

MCToon:

{{Infobox
| realName = Debbie Duran
| alias = Derpy Debbie
| image = File:Debbie_Duran.jpg
| location = US
| platform = [https://www.youtube.com/@debbieduran8198 YouTube]
| papa = [[Spurskimo]]
| drinksUrine = never been falsified
| teeth = removed for better gumming
}}

Discord Profile: 
[[File:Debbie_Duran_Discord.png]]

Her YouTube profile is not her, it's a friend. Debbie is actually morbidly obese.

"Debbie Duran" is 352 in Gematria, so are these:
* beast's fiend
* damned black satan
* damned horns
* dark fallen fallen angel
* demonic mass
* fallen madness
* gummer
* mthafucca
* profane liar
* sickening sin
* the dark killer
* the dread net
* the fallen horde
* the malefic fallen angel

Debbie Duran

2026-06-25T05:19:13Z

MCToon:

Debbie Duran

2026-06-25T05:18:17Z

MCToon:

Debbie Duran

2026-06-25T05:17:29Z

MCToon: